Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #4

[golfmom]

LOL biggirl, I don't know the answers, but I like your questions!

 

[mollymalone]

I have another question, sorry, that is all I do is question.

How are children without birth certificates eligible for any type of welfare money?? It really really infuriates me that they have the saying "bleed the beast", basically meaning you and me and all the other tax paying citizens.

So as this draws on why isn't the government allowed to dip into their "trust" that apparently is worth millions to pay for this mess that they have created?

Oh that is 2 questions. And another thing, if welfare fraud is found, won't they have to pay restitution?

Okay that was 3 and I will stop now.

First, the trust is in AZ, and has to do with properties that the individual people owned and turned over to the trust.

Individual companies run by specific families were awarded contracts by the states or govt. The funds from those contracts belong to those families who are in the FLDs but not necessarily in this particular group of the sect. Some of those funds were turned over to the fund, but Jeffs and his minions have spent a lot of the money on private jets, cars, high living etc. as well as building that compound and others.

These people are drawing AZ and Utah benefits primarily, there's no way of telling where else they're drawing them from without an investigation into that aspect. I have no idea how they've managed to apply for benefits without birth certificates or social sec. no's for the children, but they seem to have managed it as well as using each other's children to apply for benefits.

Edited to add: If the govt. or state(s)/ LE investigate and find there is considerable fraud or other criminal activity they could seize the compound, businesses, vehicles etc.. and auction it off.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Eden Texas is an hour away from San Angelo. Maybe they are gonna get them out of San Angelo??

 

[biggirl]

Thank you Mollymalone. I hope there is an extensive investigation into every penny that these people have been given. I do know that normally if restitution is ordered assets can be taken. I would hope that would be the case here. It appears if they have jets etc. those are assets.

Thank you for your patience with all my questions.

 

[mollymalone]

Thank you Mollymalone. I hope there is an extensive investigation into every penny that these people have been given. I do know that normally if restitution is ordered assets can be taken. I would hope that would be the case here. It appears if they have jets etc. those are assets.

Thank you for your patience with all my questions.

You're welcome. I'm not sure if the jets are in the assets of the fund anymore. The man in charge of it has sold off some of those assets. I have a feeling that since the feds are involved and there has been an ongoing investigation since before/after Jeffs was arrested that it will bust wide open.

 

[golfmom]

This is from wikipedia about the Trust Fund and management.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter_Day_Saints

Property ownership

The FLDS Church also prevents its members from owning real estate and other property. The land and houses occupied by the FLDS Church are owned by the United Effort Plan (UEP), a subsidiary organization of the church. The UEP also owns most businesses that are controlled by FLDS Church members. The church views this "United Order" as a means of living the traditional Latter Day Saint doctrine of the "Law of Consecration". The Attorney General of Utah has filed a lawsuit in an attempt to protect the holdings of the UEP for the current residents of Colorado City and Hildale. The Attorney General is seeking to have the assets of the UEP reassigned to the FLDS Church members. The UEP has been frozen by court order pending a resolution of the lawsuit.[citation needed]

 

[golfmom]

You're welcome. I'm not sure if the jets are in the assets of the fund anymore. The man in charge of it has sold off some of those assets. I have a feeling that since the feds are involved and there has been an ongoing investigation since before/after Jeffs was arrested that it will bust wide open.

I read an article within the last couple of days that the fund management is hoping to get their hands on some of the documents from Eldorado regarding the financial assets.

Also, some of the assets have just disappeared, (ie, heavy equipment) and it's possible that they will find UEP owned assets in Eldorado.

 

[mollymalone]

I read an article within the last couple of days that the fund management is hoping to get their hands on some of the documents from Eldorado regarding the financial assets.

Also, some of the assets have just disappeared, (ie, heavy equipment) and it's possible that they will find UEP owned assets in Eldorado.

I read that too. Almost overnight the assets were dismantled and moved. It's quite possible they'll find them there. I bet they are wanting to get their hands on those documents!!

 

[Truly]

Picking up on a question from the other thread, has the LDS officially struck the passages which call for polygamy from the Book of Mormon?

TIA!:blowkiss:

 

[SuziQ]

Now that we are on this thread. My understanding is that God's messages are left up to interpretations by humans and humans can make mistakes. For instance when a human was called upon to restore the gospel of the LDS church. In other words the original scriptures may have been misinterpreted. Now Woodruff claims he had a vision that if the LDS church continued the practice of polygamy it would result in chaos and the fall of the LDS church. Now call me silly, but I think any of us faced with the same set of circumstances would have been smart to realize that and would have have been able to predict the same thing. Vision, divine intervention or the actions of a smart man. That is the big debate that still continues.

I am pretty sure though, that there are lots of religions that don't practice what their original scriptures preached and ammendments made over time. So much is left up to interpretation from one religion to the next. Look at how some religions views differ on homosexuality. What a hot topic that is!

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/67/story_6702_1.html

So in 1890, Latter-day Saints President Wilford Woodruff announced a divine revelation that the church was ceasing the practice. Although many LDS polygamists refused to abandon their plural wives and families at the time, since 1904 it has been Mormon church policy to excommunicate members who practice or openly advocate polygamy.

How soon does anyone predict that Phelps group inserts themselves into the Texas story?

 

[SuziQ]

Picking up on a question from the other thread, has the LDS officially struck the passages which call for polygamy from the Book of Mormon?

TIA!:blowkiss:

Good question, but I've never read Book of Mormon. Let me do some checking.

 

[barb0301]

From : http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/About/News/2008/2008-04-18_news.asp

Latest News on Eldorado
News Brief: Friday, April 18, 2008

We are very gratified with today’s decision to keep all the children in temporary state custody because it stops the abuse and keeps all the children safe.
This allows us to keep children safe as we conduct a complete and thorough investigation and provide the physical and mental health services they need.
The children’s safety is our top priority. Our goal is always to reunite children with their parents if we can do so and make sure the child will be safe.
Today’s decision is about the safety of children. It is not a decision about religious freedom. The children will be allowed to worship freely. We respect and value the strong sense of faith these children have. We are not trying to change them; we are trying to keep them safe.
We’ll continue our efforts to identify the biological mother and father of each child, and it is our hope that the parents will work with us to ensure the safety of their children. On Monday, DNA testing will begin for the children and later in the week, testing will be available for the parents.
We’ll begin moving the children into more appropriate placements where we can provide all the services they need while continuing our investigation. We will try to keep children as close to their families as possible so they may see their parents under the conditions outlined by the judge.
Each child will have several people who are looking out for his or her best interests. The children will have court appointed special advocates and attorneys who will monitor their child’s care and progress and report back to the court.
This isn’t the end of the legal process or a final determination on the custody of the children. We will work with the judge, attorneys, special advocates, and hopefully the parents, to make the best decisions we can for the long-term health and safety of the children. We will update the court on the progress of each child's case by June 5.

 

[mollymalone]

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=4684344&page=1

With Warren Jeffs still in jail doing time for rape as an accomplice in the forced marriage of an underage girl, another man has reportedly assumed Jeffs' authority. Four years ago, he was part of an attack on an ABC camera crew in the fundamentalist church community of Colorado City, Ariz.,His name is Willie Jessop, he's a former body guard to the "prophet" and said to be one of the most powerful men in the Texas compound today.

"You know it seems like whenever they're in trouble they call in Big Willie to just kind of run the show," said Sam Brower, a private detective who has spent the past five years tracking Warren Jeffs' flock across several western states. But he was -- he's been kind of Warren's bouncer. He is the one that stays in front of the meeting house door and kicks out people." Said Holm: "He told me he is willing to give his life in defense of Warren." "The fact that Willie is here is telling me that they're organizing," private detective Brower said. "They're organizing their stories. He's here to make sure that everything goes the way that the church leaders want it to go, and he's 'The Enforcer.

 

[SuziQ]

It appears that the original scriptures did not support polygamy and others over the years wreslted with it to fit and justify their needs and wants for polygamy. The last two years of his life, Joseph Smith tried to stamp out polygamy.

http://www.restorationbookstore.org/articles/nopoligamy/jsfp-vol1/chp18.htm

(snips)
When many people first hear about the Book of Mormon, they assume that it is a history of Joseph Smith and that it teaches that polygamy is a doctrine of the Church. These are false assumptions, for the Book of Mormon is a history of God's dealings with the people of Ancient America, and it condemns polygamy most severely.
If this is true, one may ask, How is it that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes in polygamy? The answer is that the Mormon Church leaders of over a century ago practiced polygamy—but they did it in spite of the Book of Mormon's warnings against it. They did this by misinterpreting one statement in the book. They taught that polygamy was wrong—unless God gave the command to practice it, and then it became mandatory and a cardinal doctrine of their faith. They then proceeded to practice polygamy, claiming that God had commanded Joseph Smith to practice it and teach others to do so.

Joseph Smith Fought Polygamy
Volume I

How Men Nearest the Prophet Attached Polygamy to His Name
in Order to Justify Their Own Polygamous Crimes
By Richard and Pamela Price​

At the time of Joseph Smith's death, several of the apostles and other leaders (including some who had performed missionary work among the polygamous Cochranites in the state of Maine) were secretly involved in polygamy, as previously noted. During the last two years of Joseph's life, he was continuously engaged in attempting to stamp out the practice of polygamy in the Church. In the spring of 1844 Joseph decided to expose the polygamists openly, in spite of the fact that a number of high Church officials were involved in that practice. Joseph sought out the Nauvoo Stake President, High Priest William Marks, and asked his help in expelling from the Church those in transgression. Within a few weeks Joseph and Hyrum were killed (see True Latter Day Saints' Herald 1 [January 1860]: 26; RLDS History of the Church 2:733–734).

ETA: it appears the LDS church has had a problem with renegade fundamentalists from day one and they lied about Joseph Smith being commanded by God to practice polygamy.

 

[mollymalone]

Brent Jeffs is one of the boys who says he was sexually abused by Warren jeffs, his uncle.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=4684344&page=4

Brent left the church years ago and now he has come to Texas to testify against the sect.

The women within the sect who spoke to the media have said time and again that the children are not in danger, but Brent believes "that's because they've convinced themselves that this is right. The men in here that have brainwashed these women and children have convinced them ever since they were babies that this is right." He said that the women and children are trapped, and lonely. "You can see it in their eyes," he said. "They just -- they're not even there. They're drones."

Brent Jeffs, who came all the way from Salt Lake City to testify, said he wasn't afraid to testify. "I know it's right," he said. "It needs to be done. Someone needs to stand up and say, 'This is wrong.' I'm going to do anything I can to help these poor kids and these moms. If they let me."

 

[Leila]

On the front page of CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/17/polygamy.pentagon/index.html

Pentagon paid $1.7 million to firms of polygamy bosses

This is excellent! I think the media will expose the finances, and the financial empire will crumble.

 

[SuziQ]

This is excellent! I think the media will expose the finances, and the financial empire will crumble.

I was pretty happy to see that on CNN's front page.

 

[Truly]

Now that we are on this thread. My understanding is that God's messages are left up to interpretations by humans and humans can make mistakes. For instance when a human was called upon to restore the gospel of the LDS church. In other words the original scriptures may have been misinterpreted. Now Woodruff claims he had a vision that if the LDS church continued the practice of polygamy it would result in chaos and the fall of the LDS church. Now call me silly, but I think any of us faced with the same set of circumstances would have been smart to realize that and would have have been able to predict the same thing. Vision, divine intervention or the actions of a smart man. That is the big debate that still continues.

I am pretty sure though, that there are lots of religions that don't practice what their original scriptures preached and ammendments made over time. So much is left up to interpretation from one religion to the next. Look at how some religions views differ on homosexuality. What a hot topic that is!

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/67/story_6702_1.html

So in 1890, Latter-day Saints President Wilford Woodruff announced a divine revelation that the church was ceasing the practice. Although many LDS polygamists refused to abandon their plural wives and families at the time, since 1904 it has been Mormon church policy to excommunicate members who practice or openly advocate polygamy.

How soon does anyone predict that Phelps group inserts themselves into the Texas story?

Thanks, Suzi, and LOL on the Westboro Baptist Church! That would be a regular three ring circus! As an aside, I wonder if the official Baptist Church claims that the Phelps group is not a Baptist Church? I imagine they have the same dillemma with him that the LDS has with the FLDS!

 

[Truly]

This is excellent! I think the media will expose the finances, and the financial empire will crumble.

Yes, this is the crux of their empire. The financial fraud is way deeper that the women receiving food stamps or WIC. The men are absolutely raking in millions through huge contracts and most of that money has been funnelled directly into the hands of the men in charge of the cult.

In addition to NewWay Manufacturing, (which was formerly known as Western Precision), I have seen references to Utah Tool and Die, as well as JNJ Engineering out of Hillsdale, UT, and Tonto Supply out of Colorado City, AZ.

 

[SuziQ]

Molly, thanks for the link. There are a couple of good videos at that link. Here is one.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4679825&page=1