Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #4

[mollymalone]

Somehow they have to get at the trust fund money to support these kids. Yeah, the dads running speaks volumes about their character. Obviously they care more about their hides than either their wives or children. But even if the men are brought back to face the music, there is no way one man could support 20 or more kids on one honest income (not to mention the wives).

I truly hope the government has the ability to break up this cult and take control of the money - not just the trust money, but those companies that have the multi-million dollar government contracts too. I hate to see this burden put upon the taxpayers when there are funds to cover many of the charges, if only the state can get control of the money.

I think that there are many many violations of laws that can be used to confiscate the property. Since the land was purchased as a "hunting retreat" there must be countless violations of zoning laws, building permits, and building codes. Fine them to the max for each and every violation, and MAKE THEM PAY!

The problem with getting access to that "trust fund" is that the monies paid into that trust fund were paid in by individual folks in this sect iin different states, not Texas. Not all of the monies came from welfare, but from businesses that paid in, and their properties, mainly their homes.

It's being investigated to see whether Jeffs appropriated money from those funds to build his compounds not only in Texas, but in other states.They already know that the funds that went into it were used by Jeffs and those he trusted the most to fund their lifestyles.


That fund IS being adminstered by the state already, so the govt. already has control of it. It's being managed on behalf of those who's homes or businesses were entangled into it.

Those companies that were winning govt. contracts are owned by individuals or families. Yes, if there was corruption or they were created using public funds, I agree they should be confiscated and sold. But for those who built companies by their own work and legally paid back loans, I don't see where anyone will be taking their livelihoods away from them. If that were the case there would be even more families with children in this sect that would be filing for public assistance.

I know that the Govt. contracts are awarded without respect to race, religion etc.. but I believe that when a person running a business who applies for the contracts, and who belongs to a sect that is considered a hate group, at the least that person should be checked out further, at the most their application should be denied.

 

[Clearly Confused]

I have a few questions that I hope some of you seasoned veterans’ on this thread could answer for me.

I was under the assumption that most women at the ranch have been receiving government assistance/welfare. How can the woman apply for welfare without having a birth certificate for there children?

Did the 6 woman who were reported to have been in a safe house return to the ranch? I thought I read a few pages back that they did return.

TIA for any information on this.

 

[SweetPea2]

Well, that's one argument that works for me. I wouldn't exist if my great-grandparents didn't break the law.

Quite frankly, I think the whole system would have worked far better if God told Joseph Smith that every woman needs at least three husbands.

I was thinking the same thing!:crazy:

 

[SewingDeb]

Not sure on the birth certificate question. Forgeries maybe?

The six women did return to the ranch. They thought by going to the shelter that their children would be returned immediately and when that didn't happen, they left the shelter.

 

[SuziQ]

The below link takes you to pics of the foster facilities. They look super nice. Scroll down and on the right side it says "touring the sect children's new homes"

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5724209.html

 

[mollymalone]

Ok, just sent three links (one I found and 2 from mollymalone to ABC News with a request that they follow up on this and realize that the Texas compound was populated with followers who were hand picked by Warren Jeffs and are not representative of genetic problems found in other FDLS strongholds.

You think they'll be pleased to know they goofed? Nahhh.

Warren Jeffs IMO is a sadistic and cruel being without true empathy for others. The actions he ordered were and are calculated to strip these people and their children of their humanity. His edicts on toys, childbirth, marriage, ordering them to kill all their dogs (many smuggled them out to shelters), along with his insistence on blind obedience makes him a vicious minded bstd. IMO.

 

[mysteriew]

One of my issues with polygamy is that it is illegal. If mommies and daddy break the law, how are the children raised in that household supposed to know it's wrong. It's no different than parents who believe marijuana should be legal and smoke in front of their children or permit their children to smoke. Or those parents that think it's no big deal to buy alcohol for minors. If we all did as we pleased, just because we didn't agree with the law, it would be anarchy.

Certainly they have the same religious freedoms that we all enjoy as citizens of the United States. Polygamy isn't one of them.

You know, I could actually live with their polygamy issues if
a) they entered into it willingly
b) they were adults
c) they didn't attempt to claim absent fathers and welfare benefits for the children
d) both male and female members were free to leave the society if they wished. And free to come and go from the community when they wish.
e) all births and deaths were properly reported to the county, state, feds.
f.) all children received a formal education, at least through grade 12.

Yes, polygamy is illegal. But how many marriages don't have some adultery happen at some time. Right, no. But it is reality. But because they formally recognize it, it is illegal. If they as adults wish to give permission for their spouses to have relationships with others, why should I object?

As far as the communal living aspect, again that is their choice. But when they choose to turn their income over to the church, the church should be responsible for the education of the children beyond the 12 th grade if the child so wishes. All children (male and female) should have the opportunity for further education and/or vocational training.

As far as abuse and subjugation of the women, it is like a domestic violence relationship. If they (as adults) choose to stay in that type of relationship, then it is their right to choose. You can encourage them, you can support them, but you have to let them choose if/when it is right for them to get out. And I really believe that some women thrive in that type of relationship. They seem to feel the need to be controlled, to not have to take responsibility for decisions. Some women may be drawn to that type of relationship because of the fact that they really don't have much contact with men, and have a strong "sisterhood."

So while I personally wouldn't choose a polygamous relationship, some people might.

 

[SewingDeb]

You think they'll be pleased to know they goofed? Nahhh.

Warren Jeffs IMO is a sadistic and cruel being without true empathy for others. The actions he ordered were and are calculated to strip these people and their children of their humanity. His edicts on toys, childbirth, marriage, ordering them to kill all their dogs (many smuggled them out to shelters), along with his insistence on blind obedience makes him a vicious minded bstd. IMO.

LOL No, I'm sure they won't be pleased to know they goofed but they can do a follow up story with more facts.

I agree about Warren Jeffs. I can't help but think how different FDLS life would be with a truly benevolent leader. They might still practice polygamy but between adults only and many other things would be different.

 

[Vegas Bride]

I watched the Dr Phil show yesterday, h's covering more today about the FLDS. One woman he had on talked about how they don't use the color red because it's the color of Jesus's blood. They showed 1 of the women who was helping the children after they had been taken away and she seemed to be very concience of not upsetting them, she made a point of not wearing her red apron so as to not upset them. After hearing that, I remembered how when Warren Jeffs was finally found outside of Las Vegas, he was riding in a red Cadillac Escallade!

VB

 

[golfmom]

I have a few questions that I hope some of you seasoned veterans’ on this thread could answer for me.

I was under the assumption that most women at the ranch have been receiving government assistance/welfare. How can the woman apply for welfare without having a birth certificate for there children?

Did the 6 woman who were reported to have been in a safe house return to the ranch? I thought I read a few pages back that they did return.

TIA for any information on this.

We really have no idea if they were practicing welfare fraud in Texas. This is a practice that has been going on for years in other states. It's possible that some of the mother's neglected to tell their former states that they've moved and are still collecting benefits elsewhere.

Warren Jeffs has ramped up the secrecy and paranoia in the sect, and I think not registering births is a newer practice ... one adopted since the moved to Eldorado. Just like no weddings are occurring at YFZ. Or, the children being unable to identify their own names and parents.

I did read that the six women returned to the compound.

 

[cook78]

You see, I think it's a wonderful placement for these kids. It's not a traditional foster home (that is best for typical kids), it's more of a communial lifestyle, similar to what they are used to living in. Although I did chuckle when I saw pictures of the swimming pool. I doubt that will be used by any of the FLDS kids, unfortunately.

 

[southcitymom]

Well, that's one argument that works for me. I wouldn't exist if my great-grandparents didn't break the law.

Quite frankly, I think the whole system would have worked far better if God told Joseph Smith that every woman needs at least three husbands.

LOL - yeah, why do these prophets always favor the damn men!!! But I'd need four - Let's see - one husband to bring home the bacon; one husband to fix everything around the house and yard; one husband to raise the children and one husband to service me whenever I snapped my fingers!

ETA - isn't it mind-boggling to think of your grandparents, two people in love, as felons because of that!!!???

 

[Pepper]

I watched the Dr Phil show yesterday, h's covering more today about the FLDS. One woman he had on talked about how they don't use the color red because it's the color of Jesus's blood. They showed 1 of the women who was helping the children after they had been taken away and she seemed to be very concience of not upsetting them, she made a point of not wearing her red apron so as to not upset them. After hearing that, I remembered how when Warren Jeffs was finally found outside of Las Vegas, he was riding in a red Cadillac Escallade!

VB

and wearing bermuda shorts (I heard).

 

[golfmom]

LOL - yeah, why do these prophets always favor the damn men!!! But I'd need four - Let's see - one husband to bring home the bacon; one husband to fix everything around the house and yard; one husband to raise the children and one husband to service me whenever I snapped my fingers!

That's my idea of heaven.

 

[Pepper]

Not sure on the birth certificate question. Forgeries maybe?

The six women did return to the ranch. They thought by going to the shelter that their children would be returned immediately and when that didn't happen, they left the shelter.

I think I heard somewhere that Texas does not require birth certificates, or something like that. Anyway a loophole in Texas law, and probably one of the reasons they settled there.

 

[southcitymom]

That one and this one

http://uk.youtube.com/user/fincenMIB

The poster Fiincen has posted several good videos of the FLDS.

ETA: Kahskye I forgot to say thank you for finding that! But I do thank you.

SouthCityMom, these are the videos to check out.

Thanks for finding these, mysterview. It always takes me to that age-old question: which came first - the fanaticism or the mental illness?

 

[mysteriew]

Not sure on the birth certificate question. Forgeries maybe?

The six women did return to the ranch. They thought by going to the shelter that their children would be returned immediately and when that didn't happen, they left the shelter.

Birth certificates really aren't a problem. Child born "at home", mother says father is unknown. Mother says she is 18. Mother says she has no other children. Doctor signs off on them (either a doctor who doesn't normally treat them, or a doctor cooperative with the FLDS.) Who is there to say that mother knows who the father is, what the mother's actual age is, or how many other children she might have? The mother doesn't have to produce her birth certificate to prove her age.

 

[southcitymom]

You know, I could actually live with their polygamy issues if
a) they entered into it willingly
b) they were adults
c) they didn't attempt to claim absent fathers and welfare benefits for the children
d) both male and female members were free to leave the society if they wished. And free to come and go from the community when they wish.
e) all births and deaths were properly reported to the county, state, feds.
f.) all children received a formal education, at least through grade 12.

Yes, polygamy is illegal. But how many marriages don't have some adultery happen at some time. Right, no. But it is reality. But because they formally recognize it, it is illegal. If they as adults wish to give permission for their spouses to have relationships with others, why should I object?

As far as the communal living aspect, again that is their choice. But when they choose to turn their income over to the church, the church should be responsible for the education of the children beyond the 12 th grade if the child so wishes. All children (male and female) should have the opportunity for further education and/or vocational training.

As far as abuse and subjugation of the women, it is like a domestic violence relationship. If they (as adults) choose to stay in that type of relationship, then it is their right to choose. You can encourage them, you can support them, but you have to let them choose if/when it is right for them to get out. And I really believe that some women thrive in that type of relationship. They seem to feel the need to be controlled, to not have to take responsibility for decisions. Some women may be drawn to that type of relationship because of the fact that they really don't have much contact with men, and have a strong "sisterhood."

So while I personally wouldn't choose a polygamous relationship, some people might.

Good post - though I am a homeschooling fan so I don't mind if the children's education is less formal.

 

[mollymalone]

LOL No, I'm sure they won't be pleased to know they goofed but they can do a follow up story with more facts.

I agree about Warren Jeffs. I can't help but think how different FDLS life would be with a truly benevolent leader. They might still practice polygamy but between adults only and many other things would be different.

Unfortunately in almost every group that claimed they were a religion but were in reality acting as a cult they have had no truly benevolent leaders. There always seems to be someone who weasles their way into power or seizes power, and is more cunning, vicious/sadistic who portrays themselves outwardly as a good person when they are rotten to the core. It's not just the women and children who suffer, but the men who aren't in the hierarchy as well.

 

[golfmom]

Good post - though I am a homeschooling fan so I don't mind if the children's education is less formal.

I'm a huge homeschooling fan as well. What I didn't like though was that Jeffs forced ALL the children to leave public school. If you didn't pull your children out, you got kicked out.

Again, it's that choice thingy.