Was a stun gun used in the crime or not

[gramcracker]

Justice for Jonbenet comes when the right person is convicted and punished. Whoever that is.

the right person's last name is Ramsey, of that I have no doubt!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

the right person's last name is Ramsey, of that I have no doubt!

Well you are entitled to your opinion.. But since the case has not been solved and prosecuted, and the DNA matched yet, it does not match a Ramsey, It really is a wide open case.


It means that all theories are on the table at this point.

 

[bettybaby00]

I think it needs to be shown that the track in the Ramsey home was “0.” No track as taken into evidence, and the track we see in the video does not appear to be “0.”

I’m not impressed with Kolar’s “work” on this case. I enjoyed the book, it’s a good read, but I think Lacey described it best in her Jan. 7/07 letter to Kolar: Your theory is based upon conjecture, which at times approaches pure flights of fantasy. Your conclusions are based upon suppositions and inferences with absolutely no support in evidence or in the record. Your presentation lacks the fundamental substantive factual basis from which reasonable minds cannot differ.

I must repeat, there is no substantive basis to your theory. It is almost pure speculation as to what could've happened rather than evidence as to what did happen.
...

AK

I can appreciate your opinion of Kolar's investigation bc you have read his book, unlike some who dismiss his conclusions without ever giving it a read, or consider what it reveals.

As for MLs reply to Kolar, I give about as much merit to her assertions as I do to those espoused by LW. She refused to explore Kolar's theory without any deliberation simply bc she didn't want to "harm her relationship with the R family."

For me, that right there epitomizes all that is wrong with the way the DAs office viewed this case. Lacy shouldn't be worried about "harming that relationship," bc there shouldn't haven been a relationship to begin with. Ask any expert--not on the R payroll--and I doubt you would find any that would agree with her actions. A prosecutors job is to prosecute, not exonerate, that's for a jury to decide. Her actions are also highly questionable given that she knew there had been a true bill signed by the GJ when she made such an unorthodox move.

 

[Venom]

The train track in the video may not have been the 0 track, it may have been H0 track in that video. But the video that we are watching could have been edited down, or 0 track could have been present in BR's room or in the actual "train room" We probably haven't seen all the pictures from the house, nor have we been in the house to see it's contents. Just because something isn't shown on a video doesn't make it possible that it wasn't in the house at all. jmo

 

[gramcracker]

call me starry-eyed but this portion of the Kolar/Stephens conversation tells me that they were knowledgeable re the differences between O/HO

"It has three pins," I said, "and we only have two abrasions on JonBenet's back."

"The pins fall out all the time," he replied. "Didn't you ever play with trains as a kid? It's possible the middle pin was missing when this was used on her back."

Laughter. "I was an HO-3 man, and the pins weren't this sturdy."

I fully expect to hear that I/we can't possibly know the meaning or the context of their remarks, or that they were quoted erroneously, or that there is no proof the conversation really took place, or ... or ... or ...

 

[otg]

I never bought the stun-gun theory. But I have to say, I don’t fully buy into the train track theory either. But then, I don’t have a better theory than either of these as to what caused the marks on JonBenet’s back. But I certainly don’t think either of these things would account for the marks on her cheek.

I never was into toy trains, so there is a lot I don’t understand. I’m not sure why some tracks have 3 pins/rails and others only 2. I do understand that the direction of the electrical current is different on them and that you can’t intermix the two types without causing a short in the current. But then, some tracks seem to have both male connections on the same end, with female on the opposite; and others have male/female on both ends. All very confusing for someone who isn’t into toy trains, but I have also learned this: “O” gauge tracks are 1-1/4” (32 mm) apart. The “HO” gauge is so called because it is about “Half O”, or 5/8” apart (16.5 mm). Since the middle rail on some tracks makes it look less realistic, they are often painted black so they aren’t as noticeable as the outside rails. The three rail tracks don’t seem to come in the “HO” scale (or if they do, they’re not very common).

The only reason any of this would be important is because the validity of Chief Kolar’s claim that the “O” scale was what was in the Ramsey house has been called into question.

If anyone can look at the Daily Beast video and see a third rail, their eyesight is a lot better than mine. But if I’m not mistaken, if there is a third rail it would indicate the tracks to be “O” gauge instead of “HO”. But I’m not familiar enough with the gauges to look at the video and be able to guess the gauge simply by looking at it. So I looked for something in the video that we know the size of to compare to the tracks. [Remember “O” gauge is 1-1/4”, and “HO” is 5/8”.] Sure enough, there is an electrical outlet on the wall in the train room. A standard American electric outlet wall plate is 3” across. The plugs are 1-1/4” -- same size as the width of the “O” gauge tracks. Take a look and decide for yourself whether you think the track rails would be closer to 5/8” or 1-1/4”:

 

[DeDee]

The item responsible for the twin markings or abrasions found on JBRs back could be from either item, I suppose. Aren't there also twin abrasions on the back of her leg, above her ankle, as well as on her back, located on the left side, above her waist?

Whatever may have caused the aforementioned abrasions appears as if it may be smaller than the item that caused the larger size abrasion located on her right cheek above the jawline.

However, if it was a stun gun that resulted in the abrasion on her right cheek above the jawline, as someone suggested, it also stunned through the tape that covered her mouth, leaving behind a white artifact on her cheek, as we have seen in photos taken of her after being placed on the rug under Christmas tree.


WARNING graphic topic:

A thin blue line seems to appear between the twin marks on her back as well as the image of the two marks on her leg in the photo that was taken while she wore the red and white summertime dress and stood on the porch with bare feet.

The photo evidence indicates the twin marks appear more than once on JonBenet within a six month period. The thin blue line between the two marks or abrasions remind me of a line left by the electricity that flows from one copper point to the other on a taser.

Note: Please do not expect to see the thin blue line with an iPhone, smart phone, ipad or such as a much larger screen with ample dpi's is required.

Also, using the aid of a magnifying lens was helpful to view the line between the two marks on both areas, the two marks on her back photographed at autopsy and the two marks on her left leg photographed barefoot in the summer photo shoot. The thin line(s) actually, then, became faintly noticeable without the aid of magnification between the two marks or abrasions as they are referred to in the AR.

Additionally, I have noticed, using the same techniques, nothing hi-tech, what appears to be a fairly straight white very thin line resembling adhesive across the top of her open lips and onto her face where the top edge of the tape was applied.

Since the abrasion on her right cheek is larger than the rest of her "stun gun" abrasions, could a stun gun be held in its on position for a longer amount of time to create the larger size of an abrasion?

The stun gun held against the skin on her face zapping longer until it caused a hole in the tape, where the white artifact is found on her right cheek, near the large abrasion, could be a possibility, I presume.


GRAPHIC CONTENT ENDS

James Kolar's 42 min. video presentation can be found at the following link. At 39:29 in the video, Kolar reveals an image of a sample of 0 gauge toy train track that is missing the center pin. The two remaining pins matches, or lines up with, the two marks on JBRs back. At the 40:47 mark, Kolar tells us that JonBenet was "poked or jabbed before she was suffocated", IOW, strangled until death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMtiVFzrN8o

Chief Kolar tells us that 0 gauge track was found in Burke's room, and on the floor and table in the train room. And I believe him.

This link below is to an image of a single piece of 0 gauge toy railroad track.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-STRA...528726?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item232a2e3d16

With your cursor hovered over the available image, you are able to enlarge the end of the track where the three pins have been inserted into the toy train track.

Apparently, these 0 gauge pins can fall out or be pulled out. 0 gauge pins can be purchased in bulk of 10 to 100. This image shows the 0 gauge train track with all three pins inserted on the left side and ready to be attached to the next piece of track.

The larger locomotives do not struggle on the wider curves created by the 0. The 0 is by far the most popular gauge. To scale, 1/4" of 0 gauge toy track equals one foot of actual railroad track.

For several reasons, the brand of railroad system Burke possessed, most likely, was Lionel. Lionel sold 0 gauge track almost exclusively and controlled about half of the $6 million market in the 1990s. Incidentally, in 2004, Lionel filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. In 2006, Lionel reported profits of $66 million.

Interestingly enough, in 1992 Richard Kughn and musician Neil Young, an avid model railroader, and whose son had cerebral palsy, created Liontech, chartered to develop exclusive new model train control and sound systems. Liontech's RailSounds II debuted in 1994.

Also debuting in 1994, was the brainchild of Neil Young, Lionel's Trainmaster Command Control, a technology similar to Digital Command Control which permits, among other things, the operation of Lionel trains by remote control. Richard Kughn sold Lionel in 1995. Neil Young as recently as 2012 was a consultant to Lionel.

To read more about why Neil Young developed this wireless technology for his son who was stricken with CP, click or copy and paste the link provided. And also see Lionel at Wikipedia.

http://findmodelrailroads.com/neil-young-lionel-model-train-company

Was Christmas of 1994 the year Burke began his [Lionel] 0 gauge toy train collection? Was it wireless like the one Neil Young invented? The Rs even had a nice train table built especially for BRs train hobby. The toy train tracks on the table most likely were glued to the tabletop. Hobbyists attach the train tracks to tables or ledges by using dots of white glue and white caulking.

BR could easily add to and take away train track pieces to the train tracks that were [probably] permanently seated in place by the dried glue. Different accessories such as covered bridges can be added. There are numerous images available showing the various shapes possible using 0 gauge.

What was the shape of the toy train in BRs bedroom or were there just loose pieces of toy track laying around everywhere, you know, and floating all over like the writing pads did when Patsy described the writing pads in mystery photo #62.


Remember mystery photo #62 was taken, with JRs camera, before the Christmas morning picture of the children on Dec 25.

The search warrants included taking many photos into evidence. Most of them are identified in some way; except for 3 of the photos.

These may be "the" [three] photos found in the laundry area in the basement that prompted Patsy to be asked if she would have run to get a camera to snap a shot of JonBenet if JBR was doing something "cutesy".

Patsy replied, "No."

Didn't LE know, by then, that Patsy hired the finest professionals to take photographs of JonBenet, herself and her family?

However, PR did admit to occasionally using a paper cutter that was located in the basement to cut photos, "mostly head shots", of her little girl.


Back to the 0 gauge railroad track, a special crimping tool is sold for the pins.

"These 7" track pliers have a crimping nib to tighten the pins on Standard, 027 and "0" gage track. Just one squeeze and the pins are tight again."

http://www.ehobbytools.com/contents/en-us/p1.html

As always, my humble opinion, based upon the known facts, att, and interpreted, by me.

 

[questfortrue]

I never bought the stun-gun theory. But I have to say, I don’t fully buy into the train track theory either. But then, I don’t have a better theory than either of these as to what caused the marks on JonBenet’s back. But I certainly don’t think either of these things would account for the marks on her cheek.

I never was into toy trains, so there is a lot I don’t understand. I’m not sure why some tracks have 3 pins/rails and others only 2. I do understand that the direction of the electrical current is different on them and that you can’t intermix the two types without causing a short in the current. But then, some tracks seem to have both male connections on the same end, with female on the opposite; and others have male/female on both ends. All very confusing for someone who isn’t into toy trains, but I have also learned this: “O” gauge tracks are 1-1/4” (32 mm) apart. The “HO” gauge is so called because it is about “Half O”, or 5/8” apart (16.5 mm). Since the middle rail on some tracks makes it look less realistic, they are often painted black so they aren’t as noticeable as the outside rails. The three rail tracks don’t seem to come in the “HO” scale (or if they do, they’re not very common).

The only reason any of this would be important is because the validity of Chief Kolar’s claim that the “O” scale was what was in the Ramsey house has been called into question.

If anyone can look at the Daily Beast video and see a third rail, their eyesight is a lot better than mine. But if I’m not mistaken, if there is a third rail it would indicate the tracks to be “O” gauge instead of “HO”. But I’m not familiar enough with the gauges to look at the video and be able to guess the gauge simply by looking at it. So I looked for something in the video that we know the size of to compare to the tracks. [Remember “O” gauge is 1-1/4”, and “HO” is 5/8”.] Sure enough, there is an electrical outlet on the wall in the train room. A standard American electric outlet wall plate is 3” across. The plugs are 1-1/4” -- same size as the width of the “O” gauge tracks. Take a look and decide for yourself whether you think the track rails would be closer to 5/8” or 1-1/4”:

The stun gun wasn’t a concept I could imagine either, since this was a little girl easily controlled with a gag and more strength. The train tracks were more feasible, but still didn’t seem quite right, imo, though more of a possibility than a stun gun. Also, the back marks and the cheek mark(s) are not the same.

KK and fr Brown had some interesting photos I reviewed: http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9829&page=2 They both looked at something in the center of the marks (on the back) as having something “kind of lumpy”.

Maybe there is a 3rd possibility? Legos have all kinds of pieces and parts to them. JR referred once to a garage toy he was helping BR put together, and later to a robot toy. Legos makes something called a Lego City Garage, which I think is also robotic. IDK. But here’s a photo of the lego city garage.

And here’s a website which lists pieces to the toy. http://brickset.com/inventories/4207-1

Sorry, OTG, if this is too "out there" and speculative. Hope you’re not thinking, “Oh, great, now I have to go purchase lego sets!” J/K.

 

[Anti-K]

I never bought the stun-gun theory. But I have to say, I don’t fully buy into the train track theory either. But then, I don’t have a better theory than either of these as to what caused the marks on JonBenet’s back. But I certainly don’t think either of these things would account for the marks on her cheek.

I never was into toy trains, so there is a lot I don’t understand. I’m not sure why some tracks have 3 pins/rails and others only 2. I do understand that the direction of the electrical current is different on them and that you can’t intermix the two types without causing a short in the current. But then, some tracks seem to have both male connections on the same end, with female on the opposite; and others have male/female on both ends. All very confusing for someone who isn’t into toy trains, but I have also learned this: “O” gauge tracks are 1-1/4” (32 mm) apart. The “HO” gauge is so called because it is about “Half O”, or 5/8” apart (16.5 mm). Since the middle rail on some tracks makes it look less realistic, they are often painted black so they aren’t as noticeable as the outside rails. The three rail tracks don’t seem to come in the “HO” scale (or if they do, they’re not very common).

The only reason any of this would be important is because the validity of Chief Kolar’s claim that the “O” scale was what was in the Ramsey house has been called into question.

If anyone can look at the Daily Beast video and see a third rail, their eyesight is a lot better than mine. But if I’m not mistaken, if there is a third rail it would indicate the tracks to be “O” gauge instead of “HO”. But I’m not familiar enough with the gauges to look at the video and be able to guess the gauge simply by looking at it. So I looked for something in the video that we know the size of to compare to the tracks. [Remember “O” gauge is 1-1/4”, and “HO” is 5/8”.] Sure enough, there is an electrical outlet on the wall in the train room. A standard American electric outlet wall plate is 3” across. The plugs are 1-1/4” -- same size as the width of the “O” gauge tracks. Take a look and decide for yourself whether you think the track rails would be closer to 5/8” or 1-1/4”:

This makes the track look more like 0 in size, but I just don’t see a third rail. I don’t have any problem accepting that there was 0 scale track in the home somewhere, but I don’t think the dailybeast video supports that. BPD must have better photographs of the track, or some track – in another room, perhaps.

Regardless, I’ll be shocked if you can use this track to reproduce the types of abrasions we see on jbr. One of these days I’ll get my hands on a piece and give it a try.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

The item responsible for the twin markings or abrasions found on JBRs back could be from either item, I suppose. Aren't there also twin abrasions on the back of her leg, above her ankle, as well as on her back, located on the left side, above her waist?

Whatever may have caused the aforementioned abrasions appears as if it may be smaller than the item that caused the larger size abrasion located on her right cheek above the jawline.

However, if it was a stun gun that resulted in the abrasion on her right cheek above the jawline, as someone suggested, it also stunned through the tape that covered her mouth, leaving behind a white artifact on her cheek, as we have seen in photos taken of her after being placed on the rug under Christmas tree.


WARNING graphic topic:

A thin blue line seems to appear between the twin marks on her back as well as the image of the two marks on her leg in the photo that was taken while she wore the red and white summertime dress and stood on the porch with bare feet.

The photo evidence indicates the twin marks appear more than once on JonBenet within a six month period. The thin blue line between the two marks or abrasions remind me of a line left by the electricity that flows from one copper point to the other on a taser.

Note: Please do not expect to see the thin blue line with an iPhone, smart phone, ipad or such as a much larger screen with ample dpi's is required.

Also, using the aid of a magnifying lens was helpful to view the line between the two marks on both areas, the two marks on her back photographed at autopsy and the two marks on her left leg photographed barefoot in the summer photo shoot. The thin line(s) actually, then, became faintly noticeable without the aid of magnification between the two marks or abrasions as they are referred to in the AR.

Additionally, I have noticed, using the same techniques, nothing hi-tech, what appears to be a fairly straight white very thin line resembling adhesive across the top of her open lips and onto her face where the top edge of the tape was applied.

Since the abrasion on her right cheek is larger than the rest of her "stun gun" abrasions, could a stun gun be held in its on position for a longer amount of time to create the larger size of an abrasion?

The stun gun held against the skin on her face zapping longer until it caused a hole in the tape, where the white artifact is found on her right cheek, near the large abrasion, could be a possibility, I presume.


GRAPHIC CONTENT ENDS

James Kolar's 42 min. video presentation can be found at the following link. At 39:29 in the video, Kolar reveals an image of a sample of 0 gauge toy train track that is missing the center pin. The two remaining pins matches, or lines up with, the two marks on JBRs back. At the 40:47 mark, Kolar tells us that JonBenet was "poked or jabbed before she was suffocated", IOW, strangled until death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMtiVFzrN8o

Chief Kolar tells us that 0 gauge track was found in Burke's room, and on the floor and table in the train room. And I believe him.

This link below is to an image of a single piece of 0 gauge toy railroad track.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-STRA...528726?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item232a2e3d16

With your cursor hovered over the available image, you are able to enlarge the end of the track where the three pins have been inserted into the toy train track.

Apparently, these 0 gauge pins can fall out or be pulled out. 0 gauge pins can be purchased in bulk of 10 to 100. This image shows the 0 gauge train track with all three pins inserted on the left side and ready to be attached to the next piece of track.

The larger locomotives do not struggle on the wider curves created by the 0. The 0 is by far the most popular gauge. To scale, 1/4" of 0 gauge toy track equals one foot of actual railroad track.

For several reasons, the brand of railroad system Burke possessed, most likely, was Lionel. Lionel sold 0 gauge track almost exclusively and controlled about half of the $6 million market in the 1990s. Incidentally, in 2004, Lionel filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. In 2006, Lionel reported profits of $66 million.

Interestingly enough, in 1992 Richard Kughn and musician Neil Young, an avid model railroader, and whose son had cerebral palsy, created Liontech, chartered to develop exclusive new model train control and sound systems. Liontech's RailSounds II debuted in 1994.

Also debuting in 1994, was the brainchild of Neil Young, Lionel's Trainmaster Command Control, a technology similar to Digital Command Control which permits, among other things, the operation of Lionel trains by remote control. Richard Kughn sold Lionel in 1995. Neil Young as recently as 2012 was a consultant to Lionel.

To read more about why Neil Young developed this wireless technology for his son who was stricken with CP, click or copy and paste the link provided. And also see Lionel at Wikipedia.

http://findmodelrailroads.com/neil-young-lionel-model-train-company

Was Christmas of 1994 the year Burke began his [Lionel] 0 gauge toy train collection? Was it wireless like the one Neil Young invented? The Rs even had a nice train table built especially for BRs train hobby. The toy train tracks on the table most likely were glued to the tabletop. Hobbyists attach the train tracks to tables or ledges by using dots of white glue and white caulking.

BR could easily add to and take away train track pieces to the train tracks that were [probably] permanently seated in place by the dried glue. Different accessories such as covered bridges can be added. There are numerous images available showing the various shapes possible using 0 gauge.

What was the shape of the toy train in BRs bedroom or were there just loose pieces of toy track laying around everywhere, you know, and floating all over like the writing pads did when Patsy described the writing pads in mystery photo #62.


Remember mystery photo #62 was taken, with JRs camera, before the Christmas morning picture of the children on Dec 25.

The search warrants included taking many photos into evidence. Most of them are identified in some way; except for 3 of the photos.

These may be "the" [three] photos found in the laundry area in the basement that prompted Patsy to be asked if she would have run to get a camera to snap a shot of JonBenet if JBR was doing something "cutesy".

Patsy replied, "No."

Didn't LE know, by then, that Patsy hired the finest professionals to take photographs of JonBenet, herself and her family?

However, PR did admit to occasionally using a paper cutter that was located in the basement to cut photos, "mostly head shots", of her little girl.


Back to the 0 gauge railroad track, a special crimping tool is sold for the pins.

"These 7" track pliers have a crimping nib to tighten the pins on Standard, 027 and "0" gage track. Just one squeeze and the pins are tight again."

http://www.ehobbytools.com/contents...mmm.... All offtopic, of course. ... AK

 

[Venom]

This makes the track look more like 0 in size, but I just don’t see a third rail. I don’t have any problem accepting that there was 0 scale track in the home somewhere, but I don’t think the dailybeast video supports that. BPD must have better photographs of the track, or some track – in another room, perhaps.

Regardless, I’ll be shocked if you can use this track to reproduce the types of abrasions we see on jbr. One of these days I’ll get my hands on a piece and give it a try.
...

AK

AK, my husband has some old trains downstairs and I'm sure I've seen son HO tracks down there. I may try to experiment myself.
Off topic but I love Neil Young's song Heart of Gold. One of my favorites.

 

[renah]

DeDee
Thanks so much for the info about NY and the train system- he's great isnt he? I knew about his son but the developement info was new to me and much appreciated. Harvest was the only album (of anyone's) I'd ever owned until much later years, even tho Ive always been surrounded by one type of music or another all my life & of course, now. Who cant live without music, right?
I still can't live without Mr. Young's.

 

[otg]

Apologies in advance if this is going down the wrong track, and also for the really horrible topic- not nice to discuss at all, but maybe you would all know more about this than me? I'm obviously just wondering if there could be any connection between the marks on JB's legs on the photo, and the autopsy marks (maybe we'll never know)...

Does anyone know anything about petechial hemorrhaging? What causes it, if that partly explains some of her autopsy marks, and if those types of marks can be large or small? The marks on her legs look similar to some of the autopsy ones (although can't be sure they are the same)- could the leg marks possibly be caused by petechial hemorrhaging? (I know they could also be burns or other things as well). I was just wondering if they could be, and if so, can they be caused by partial strangling techniques, and can that occur on someone's legs? Just wondering, as those legs marks must be caused by something... Also, what happened to her on the night she died might not have been a one-off.

Apologies again if I'm really off base, just wondering if anyone has more knowledge and can either rule it out or possibly in?

Just my opinion, but I don’t think the marks on JonBenet’s legs are from petechial hemorrhaging -- at least not related to the strangulation. Hopefully the following information will be helpful in understanding why, and maybe even contribute to understanding a little better about the petechiae that were found on her body.

First, I should warn anyone reading this to not be thrown off by some of the following quotes from sources that pertain to suspension or hanging simply because you disagree with that possibility. Understand that as far as development of petechiae, the only difference between manual ligature strangulation and ligature suspension is the cause of the pressure (one being the result of an assailant pulling the ligature, and the other being the victim’s own weight pulling the ligature from a fixed object). Except for a few details, most of the injuries to the victim will be the same in either case, so looking at information from both CODs is valuable.


http://www.ncdsv.org/images/strangulation_article.pdf

The tiny red spots (petechiae) characteristic of many cases of strangulation are due to ruptured capillaries—the smallest blood vessels in the body—and sometimes may be found only under the eyelids (conjunctivae). However, sometimes they may be found around the eyes in the periorbital region, anywhere on the face, and on the neck in and above the area of constriction. Petechiae tend to be most pronounced in ligature strangulation. Blood red eyes (subconjunctival hemorrhages) are due to capillary rupture in the white portion (sclera) of the eyes.
​

http://www.forensicmed.co.uk/wounds/blunt-force-trauma/bruises/

Their (petechial hemorrhages) pathogenesis is poorly understood, but may relate to raised intra-capillary pressure due to an obstruction of venous return (subsequent to pressure applied to the upper chest or neck, for example), hypoxia, endothelial dysfunction (in sepsis) or a combination of these factors (Jaffe 1994). Petechiae can also be caused by blunt trauma (Jaffe 1994, Saukko and Knight 2004), implying a mechanical disruption of capillaries.
​

Despite some contention that other physiological changes in cellular structure (hypoxic injury to endothelial cells caused by venous stasis and tissue acidosis) may also have a minor influence on the likelihood of petechial development (particularly in non-asphyxial deaths), it remains most commonly accepted as a purely mechanical response to increased pressure causing the rupture of capillaries. This continued belief by some is, in part, because petechiae are known to be a result of other purely metabolic causes where an existing condition can cause petechiae and purpura. Some of those metabolic causes are vasculitis, meningitis, typhus, scurvy, platelet disorders, and radiation poisoning. This (IMO) is not applicable in the case of strangulation because of the amount of time required for metabolic changes to occur at the cellular level. The generally accepted belief that petechiae (in the case of strangulation/suspension) are the result of a purely mechanical response is explained in the following article:

“Asphyxial Deaths and Petechiae: A Review” (Susan F. Ely, M.D., M.P.H. and Charles S. Hirsch, M.D), Journal of Forensic Science, 2000, 45(6):1274–1277
Reprinted online:
http://www.charlydmiller.com/LIB04/2000petechiaereview.pdf

Excluding those related to infectious, coagulopathic, or microembolic etiologies, we conclude that petechiae of the head are the product of purely mechanical vascular phenomena: namely, impaired or obstructed venous return in the presence of continued arterial input. As pressure builds in venules and capillaries, particularly those with little surrounding connective tissue support, such as the conjunctivae and eyelids, vascular rupture produces petechiae. The likelihood of this occurrence is directly proportional to the degree of venous obstruction and inversely proportional to that of arterial compression at or above the level of the heart. Nearly 4.5 lb (2 kg) of pressure is required to compress the jugular veins, whereas 11 and 66 lb (5 and 30 kg) are required to compress the carotid and vertebral arteries, respectively; therefore, an intermediate amount of force simultaneously applied to both results in venous compression before arterial. This is similarly applicable to the right and left sides of the heart. If the compressive pressure to the chest or neck is great enough to obstruct venous return from the head, but not enough to obstruct arterial flow to it, cephalic (related to the head) venous pressure will rise, as will the probability of small vessel rupture. A violent struggle that increases cardiac output and raises blood pressure therefore enhances the occurrence of petechiae. Alternatively, if the applied force is sufficiently great to obstruct arterial flow, venous engorgement and rupture will not occur. An analogous mechanism resulting in elevated cephalic venous pressure without compression occurs with a precipitous impairment of venous return to the heart, such as that seen in acute right heart failure.
​

From “Petechiae in Hanging, A Retrospective Study of Contributing Variables” (Renaud Clément, MD, Jean-Pierre Guay, PhD, Margaret Redpath, MD, and Anny Sauvageau, MD, MSc):
http://arsh.lmo.ir/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/2011.4.21.pdf

An 8.5-year retrospective study of 206 cases of death by hanging reviewed autopsy reports for the presence of petechiae. For each case, the following information was also compiled: gender and age, height and weight, body mass index, the type of hanging (complete or incomplete suspension), the type of ligature used (narrow or wide), and whether or not the victim had received cardiopulmonary resuscitation maneuvers. Statistical analysis revealed that the incidence was higher among incomplete hanging victims compared with cases of complete suspension and that the incidence of petechiae varied inversely with the height of the victims. The other factors were not shown to contribute significantly to the presence of petechiae.


The present study is intended to contribute to EBM (evidence-based medicine) by evaluating the relationship between petechiae and the type of hanging (complete vs. incomplete). Several other variables such as victim’s age, height, weight, the body mass index (BMI), type of ligature, and cardiopulmonary resuscitation were analyzed to determine if they contribute significantly to the presence of petechiae.

Petechiae are pinpoint hemorrhages resulting from the rupture of small vessels. In hanging, mechanical obstruction of venous return to the heart causes an increase in intravascular pressure that induces overdistention of the thin-walled peripheral venules and this can lead to rupture. The venules located in areas that are low in connective tissue, such as the conjunctiva and sclera of the eyes, the skin of the upper eyelid, the forehead, behind the ears, and around the mouth are more prone to rupture.


Despite the fact that the presence of petechiae is considered one of the classic signs of asphyxia, petechiae are not commonly observed in cases of hanging. In such cases it is believed that the total occlusion of both the arterial and venous supply creates a stabilization, rather than an increase, in intravascular pressure in the head. In keeping with this, it is often stated in the literature that petechiae are more frequently observed in cases of hanging where part of the body is supporting the victim’s weight, ie, cases of incomplete hanging, because it is believed that the jugular veins become occluded while the deeper and less compressible carotid and vertebral arteries remain patent.

Incidence of Petechiae in Relation to the Type of Hanging

It is often stated in forensic textbooks that the incidence of petechiae in hanging with incomplete (partial) suspension of the body is higher than in hanging with complete free suspension. In incomplete hanging, occlusion of the venous return can occur without a disruption of arterial supply. Because the deeper and less compressible arteries remain patent while venous drainage is blocked, the persistence of arterial circulation generates high intravascular pressure in the head and neck.
​

The differential pressure between arteries and veins is demonstrated with a test mentioned in the above article. Known by different names (Rumpel-Leede Capillary-Fragility Test, capillary fragility test, tourniquet test, Hess test), it was used in the past to test for certain diseases and conditions. Basically it is done by constricting blood circulation in the arm between the levels measured in a blood pressure test (systolic and diastolic) for a proscribed length of time. This allows arterial pressure buildup while restricting venous flow. The resulting higher venous pressure causes petechial hemorrhages to appear on the limb on the side of the restriction opposite the heart. The number of petechiae are then counted within a measured area. A higher than normally expected number indicates a “weaker” capillary structure in the person.

http://en.wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Tourniquet_test
http://en.wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Hess_test
http://www.pathology.vcu.edu/education/PathLab/pages/hemostasis/cotests/capillaryfragility.html


Whether you realize it or not, each of us has most likely experienced petechial hemorrhaging at some time in our lives. If you ever received (or gave) a “passion mark” (“hickey”, “sucker bite”, “love bite&#8221, its appearance is because of the capillaries (or venules) bursting below the surface of the skin. If you’ve ever been struck or scraped by an object that left a reddish mark on the surface of the skin without breaking the skin, its color is from the surface capillaries that experienced momentary excessive pressure and burst. A similar reaction can be found if something is pressed down on the skin and then moved along the surface in a scraping motion. Here it forces the capillary blood out from under the object and into the adjacent capillaries, causing the buildup of pressure to be enough to burst the engorged blood vessels. So the petechial hemorrhaging seen in strangulations is not something unique to strangulations alone. They can also be found on internal organs (usually on their surface) during the autopsy of someone with certain medical conditions -- or who died under traumatic circumstances such as asphyxiation.

The only reason all this is important to us is so we understand exactly what the petechiae on JonBenet’s neck represents. If the position of the furrow on JonBenet’s neck was where she was initially strangled, there should be little or no petechiae below it. But there is. There is enough of an area that simply reading the AR should be enough (without the additional benefit of seeing it on the leaked autopsy photos) to tell us the ligature found on her neck was somewhere else in a lower position while she was still alive, or that another ligature was also used and then removed. Dr. Wecht saw this. That’s why he came up with the idea (mistakenly, IMO) that it was part of a “sex game gone awry” where the ligature was repeatedly tightened and then loosened. All these indications of ligature strangulation are especially important in cases where someone is killed with a ligature that has been removed from the body before it is discovered. It tells medical examiners how the victim was killed and what might have been used -- even if there is no ligature remaining on the body and no ligature furrow formation due to the length of time it may have remained on the body before being removed.

(The following two paragraphs are IMO only):

If we consider all this along with the possibility (probability, IMO) that the other location of the ligature is also shown by the blanched white line below her laryngeal prominence (Adam’s apple, or thyroid cartilage), we get a more defined picture of what actually happened. The ligature was initially tied loosely around her neck. A sudden jerk or pulling of the cord caused it to tighten in the lower position where it remained until she was dead or dying. The projection of the white line indicates the direction it was pulled. Then (as is not unusual in accidental hangings and some intentional strangulations) the weight of the body pulling down on the cord caused it to overcome the obstruction of the laryngeal prominence, “rolling” over the skin of the neck aggravating the number of individual petechiae, allowing it to further tighten and then stop below the chin.

If this was indeed the result of a suspension (as I believe) and she had remained in this position, the ligature would have formed a slightly different appearing furrow than was found. It would have been more prominent in the front of her neck than the back (because of the pressure of weight distribution), and there might have been the familiar inverted “V” where the knot was located. But instead, once the weight of her body was removed, the pressure of the ligature equalized around her neck into the circumferential location found when her body was examined. Because her body was not left suspended for a long enough period of time, the appearance that would be expected from it is not there -- only indications of it that can’t be explained adequately by other theories.


A few more points from http://forensicpathologyonline.com/e-book/asphyxia/hanging:

Frequently, only the portion adjacent to the knot moves. There is a tendency for the ligature to move upwards, this being limited by the jaws. The upward movement may produce double impression of ligature. The lower mark is usually very superficial and is connected by fine abrasions, caused by the slipping ligature, to the mark made by ligature in its final position

The ligature produces a furrow or groove in the tissue which is pale in colour, but it later becomes yellowish or yellow-brown and hard like parchment, due to the drying of the slightly abraded skin.

A slip-knot may cause the noose to tighten and squeeze the skin through the full circumference of the neck.

The mark is seen on both sides of the neck, and is usually directed transversely across the front of the neck resembling that of a ligature mark in strangulation, except that it is likely to be seen above the level of thyroid cartilage.

In partial hanging when the body leans forward, a horizontal ligature mark may be seen.

When fresh, the ligature mark is less clear, but becomes prominent after dying for several hours.

The tongue is usually swollen and blue especially at the base, and usually forced against the teeth when the jaw is shut, or the tip may be found projecting between the lips. The protruding part of the tongue is usually dark-brown or even black due to drying. (Remember the “slight drying artifact of the tip of the tongue” in JonBenet’s AR?)
​

Saliva may be found dribbling from the angle of mouth when the head is drooping forward. This is due to the increased salivation before death due to the stimulation of the salivary glands by the ligature. Slight haemorrhage or bloody froth is sometimes seen at the mouth and nostrils, and some blood may be found under the head.
​

In most cases, there is no bruising of strap muscles or other soft tissues, the muscles of the neck, especially the platysma and sternomastoid are ruptured (5 to 10%), if violence has been considerable. In some cases (5 to 10%), the intima of the carotid arteries show transverse splits with extravasation of blood in their wall due to stretching and crushing.
​

The vertebral arteries show rupture, intimal tears, and subintimal haemorrhages in some cases (not addressed by Meyer in the AR).
​

Maybe looking at all the injuries on JonBenet’s neck and trying to interpret them is like reading tea leaves. But as much as I respect the knowledge and opinion of some of the familiar “medical experts”, I don’t think they’ve yet figured out exactly what happened.

 

[midwest mama]

There are clear photos of "O" train track in the 1993 Christmas footage shown of the Ramsey kids in the video "JonBenet's America (1998)" on YouTube from the 4:29 - 4:50 time markers.

 

[Anti-K]

Just my opinion, but I don’t think the marks on JonBenet’s legs are from petechial hemorrhaging -- at least not related to the strangulation. Hopefully the following information will be helpful in understanding why, and maybe even contribute to understanding a little better about the petechiae that were found on her body.

First, I should warn anyone reading this to not be thrown off by some of the following quotes from sources that pertain to suspension or hanging simply because you disagree with that possibility. Understand that as far as development of petechiae, the only difference between manual ligature strangulation and ligature suspension is the cause of the pressure (one being the result of an assailant pulling the ligature, and the other being the victim’s own weight pulling the ligature from a fixed object). Except for a few details, most of the injuries to the victim will be the same in either case, so looking at information from both CODs is valuable.


http://www.ncdsv.org/images/strangulation_article.pdf

The tiny red spots (petechiae) characteristic of many cases of strangulation are due to ruptured capillaries—the smallest blood vessels in the body—and sometimes may be found only under the eyelids (conjunctivae). However, sometimes they may be found around the eyes in the periorbital region, anywhere on the face, and on the neck in and above the area of constriction. Petechiae tend to be most pronounced in ligature strangulation. Blood red eyes (subconjunctival hemorrhages) are due to capillary rupture in the white portion (sclera) of the eyes.
​

http://www.forensicmed.co.uk/wounds/blunt-force-trauma/bruises/

Their (petechial hemorrhages) pathogenesis is poorly understood, but may relate to raised intra-capillary pressure due to an obstruction of venous return (subsequent to pressure applied to the upper chest or neck, for example), hypoxia, endothelial dysfunction (in sepsis) or a combination of these factors (Jaffe 1994). Petechiae can also be caused by blunt trauma (Jaffe 1994, Saukko and Knight 2004), implying a mechanical disruption of capillaries.
​

Despite some contention that other physiological changes in cellular structure (hypoxic injury to endothelial cells caused by venous stasis and tissue acidosis) may also have a minor influence on the likelihood of petechial development (particularly in non-asphyxial deaths), it remains most commonly accepted as a purely mechanical response to increased pressure causing the rupture of capillaries. This continued belief by some is, in part, because petechiae are known to be a result of other purely metabolic causes where an existing condition can cause petechiae and purpura. Some of those metabolic causes are vasculitis, meningitis, typhus, scurvy, platelet disorders, and radiation poisoning. This (IMO) is not applicable in the case of strangulation because of the amount of time required for metabolic changes to occur at the cellular level. The generally accepted belief that petechiae (in the case of strangulation/suspension) are the result of a purely mechanical response is explained in the following article:

“Asphyxial Deaths and Petechiae: A Review” (Susan F. Ely, M.D., M.P.H. and Charles S. Hirsch, M.D), Journal of Forensic Science, 2000, 45(6):1274–1277
Reprinted online:
http://www.charlydmiller.com/LIB04/2000petechiaereview.pdf

Excluding those related to infectious, coagulopathic, or microembolic etiologies, we conclude that petechiae of the head are the product of purely mechanical vascular phenomena: namely, impaired or obstructed venous return in the presence of continued arterial input. As pressure builds in venules and capillaries, particularly those with little surrounding connective tissue support, such as the conjunctivae and eyelids, vascular rupture produces petechiae. The likelihood of this occurrence is directly proportional to the degree of venous obstruction and inversely proportional to that of arterial compression at or above the level of the heart. Nearly 4.5 lb (2 kg) of pressure is required to compress the jugular veins, whereas 11 and 66 lb (5 and 30 kg) are required to compress the carotid and vertebral arteries, respectively; therefore, an intermediate amount of force simultaneously applied to both results in venous compression before arterial. This is similarly applicable to the right and left sides of the heart. If the compressive pressure to the chest or neck is great enough to obstruct venous return from the head, but not enough to obstruct arterial flow to it, cephalic (related to the head) venous pressure will rise, as will the probability of small vessel rupture. A violent struggle that increases cardiac output and raises blood pressure therefore enhances the occurrence of petechiae. Alternatively, if the applied force is sufficiently great to obstruct arterial flow, venous engorgement and rupture will not occur. An analogous mechanism resulting in elevated cephalic venous pressure without compression occurs with a precipitous impairment of venous return to the heart, such as that seen in acute right heart failure.
​

From “Petechiae in Hanging, A Retrospective Study of Contributing Variables” (Renaud Clément, MD, Jean-Pierre Guay, PhD, Margaret Redpath, MD, and Anny Sauvageau, MD, MSc):
http://arsh.lmo.ir/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/2011.4.21.pdf

An 8.5-year retrospective study of 206 cases of death by hanging reviewed autopsy reports for the presence of petechiae. For each case, the following information was also compiled: gender and age, height and weight, body mass index, the type of hanging (complete or incomplete suspension), the type of ligature used (narrow or wide), and whether or not the victim had received cardiopulmonary resuscitation maneuvers. Statistical analysis revealed that the incidence was higher among incomplete hanging victims compared with cases of complete suspension and that the incidence of petechiae varied inversely with the height of the victims. The other factors were not shown to contribute significantly to the presence of petechiae.


The present study is intended to contribute to EBM (evidence-based medicine) by evaluating the relationship between petechiae and the type of hanging (complete vs. incomplete). Several other variables such as victim’s age, height, weight, the body mass index (BMI), type of ligature, and cardiopulmonary resuscitation were analyzed to determine if they contribute significantly to the presence of petechiae.

Petechiae are pinpoint hemorrhages resulting from the rupture of small vessels. In hanging, mechanical obstruction of venous return to the heart causes an increase in intravascular pressure that induces overdistention of the thin-walled peripheral venules and this can lead to rupture. The venules located in areas that are low in connective tissue, such as the conjunctiva and sclera of the eyes, the skin of the upper eyelid, the forehead, behind the ears, and around the mouth are more prone to rupture.


Despite the fact that the presence of petechiae is considered one of the classic signs of asphyxia, petechiae are not commonly observed in cases of hanging. In such cases it is believed that the total occlusion of both the arterial and venous supply creates a stabilization, rather than an increase, in intravascular pressure in the head. In keeping with this, it is often stated in the literature that petechiae are more frequently observed in cases of hanging where part of the body is supporting the victim’s weight, ie, cases of incomplete hanging, because it is believed that the jugular veins become occluded while the deeper and less compressible carotid and vertebral arteries remain patent.

Incidence of Petechiae in Relation to the Type of Hanging

It is often stated in forensic textbooks that the incidence of petechiae in hanging with incomplete (partial) suspension of the body is higher than in hanging with complete free suspension. In incomplete hanging, occlusion of the venous return can occur without a disruption of arterial supply. Because the deeper and less compressible arteries remain patent while venous drainage is blocked, the persistence of arterial circulation generates high intravascular pressure in the head and neck.
​

The differential pressure between arteries and veins is demonstrated with a test mentioned in the above article. Known by different names (Rumpel-Leede Capillary-Fragility Test, capillary fragility test, tourniquet test, Hess test), it was used in the past to test for certain diseases and conditions. Basically it is done by constricting blood circulation in the arm between the levels measured in a blood pressure test (systolic and diastolic) for a proscribed length of time. This allows arterial pressure buildup while restricting venous flow. The resulting higher venous pressure causes petechial hemorrhages to appear on the limb on the side of the restriction opposite the heart. The number of petechiae are then counted within a measured area. A higher than normally expected number indicates a “weaker” capillary structure in the person.

http://en.wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Tourniquet_test
http://en.wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Hess_test
http://www.pathology.vcu.edu/education/PathLab/pages/hemostasis/cotests/capillaryfragility.html


Whether you realize it or not, each of us has most likely experienced petechial hemorrhaging at some time in our lives. If you ever received (or gave) a “passion mark” (“hickey”, “sucker bite”, “love bite”), its appearance is because of the capillaries (or venules) bursting below the surface of the skin. If you’ve ever been struck or scraped by an object that left a reddish mark on the surface of the skin without breaking the skin, its color is from the surface capillaries that experienced momentary excessive pressure and burst. A similar reaction can be found if something is pressed down on the skin and then moved along the surface in a scraping motion. Here it forces the capillary blood out from under the object and into the adjacent capillaries, causing the buildup of pressure to be enough to burst the engorged blood vessels. So the petechial hemorrhaging seen in strangulations is not something unique to strangulations alone. They can also be found on internal organs (usually on their surface) during the autopsy of someone with certain medical conditions -- or who died under traumatic circumstances such as asphyxiation.

The only reason all this is important to us is so we understand exactly what the petechiae on JonBenet’s neck represents. If the position of the furrow on JonBenet’s neck was where she was initially strangled, there should be little or no petechiae below it. But there is. There is enough of an area that simply reading the AR should be enough (without the additional benefit of seeing it on the leaked autopsy photos) to tell us the ligature found on her neck was somewhere else in a lower position while she was still alive, or that another ligature was also used and then removed. Dr. Wecht saw this. That’s why he came up with the idea (mistakenly, IMO) that it was part of a “sex game gone awry” where the ligature was repeatedly tightened and then loosened. All these indications of ligature strangulation are especially important in cases where someone is killed with a ligature that has been removed from the body before it is discovered. It tells medical examiners how the victim was killed and what might have been used -- even if there is no ligature remaining on the body and no ligature furrow formation due to the length of time it may have remained on the body before being removed.

(The following two paragraphs are IMO only):

If we consider all this along with the possibility (probability, IMO) that the other location of the ligature is also shown by the blanched white line below her laryngeal prominence (Adam’s apple, or thyroid cartilage), we get a more defined picture of what actually happened. The ligature was initially tied loosely around her neck. A sudden jerk or pulling of the cord caused it to tighten in the lower position where it remained until she was dead or dying. The projection of the white line indicates the direction it was pulled. Then (as is not unusual in accidental hangings and some intentional strangulations) the weight of the body pulling down on the cord caused it to overcome the obstruction of the laryngeal prominence, “rolling” over the skin of the neck aggravating the number of individual petechiae, allowing it to further tighten and then stop below the chin.

If this was indeed the result of a suspension (as I believe) and she had remained in this position, the ligature would have formed a slightly different appearing furrow than was found. It would have been more prominent in the front of her neck than the back (because of the pressure of weight distribution), and there might have been the familiar inverted “V” where the knot was located. But instead, once the weight of her body was removed, the pressure of the ligature equalized around her neck into the circumferential location found when her body was examined. Because her body was not left suspended for a long enough period of time, the appearance that would be expected from it is not there -- only indications of it that can’t be explained adequately by other theories.


A few more points from http://forensicpathologyonline.com/e-book/asphyxia/hanging:

Frequently, only the portion adjacent to the knot moves. There is a tendency for the ligature to move upwards, this being limited by the jaws. The upward movement may produce double impression of ligature. The lower mark is usually very superficial and is connected by fine abrasions, caused by the slipping ligature, to the mark made by ligature in its final position

The ligature produces a furrow or groove in the tissue which is pale in colour, but it later becomes yellowish or yellow-brown and hard like parchment, due to the drying of the slightly abraded skin.

A slip-knot may cause the noose to tighten and squeeze the skin through the full circumference of the neck.

The mark is seen on both sides of the neck, and is usually directed transversely across the front of the neck resembling that of a ligature mark in strangulation, except that it is likely to be seen above the level of thyroid cartilage.

In partial hanging when the body leans forward, a horizontal ligature mark may be seen.

When fresh, the ligature mark is less clear, but becomes prominent after dying for several hours.

The tongue is usually swollen and blue especially at the base, and usually forced against the teeth when the jaw is shut, or the tip may be found projecting between the lips. The protruding part of the tongue is usually dark-brown or even black due to drying. (Remember the “slight drying artifact of the tip of the tongue” in JonBenet’s AR?)
​

Saliva may be found dribbling from the angle of mouth when the head is drooping forward. This is due to the increased salivation before death due to the stimulation of the salivary glands by the ligature. Slight haemorrhage or bloody froth is sometimes seen at the mouth and nostrils, and some blood may be found under the head.
​

In most cases, there is no bruising of strap muscles or other soft tissues, the muscles of the neck, especially the platysma and sternomastoid are ruptured (5 to 10%), if violence has been considerable. In some cases (5 to 10%), the intima of the carotid arteries show transverse splits with extravasation of blood in their wall due to stretching and crushing.
​

The vertebral arteries show rupture, intimal tears, and subintimal haemorrhages in some cases (not addressed by Meyer in the AR).
​

Maybe looking at all the injuries on JonBenet’s neck and trying to interpret them is like reading tea leaves. But as much as I respect the knowledge and opinion of some of the familiar “medical experts”, I don’t think they’ve yet figured out exactly what happened.

The “blanched white line below her laryngeal prominence” is not a sign of strangulation, unless it was one that happened after death. That’s what white means – happened after death.

But, the abrasions to the right side do give the impression that something else did happen, something before the final tightening and strangulation. I’m pretty open-minded as to what that something could have been, although I do find some explanations to be unlikely.

The furrow is what you get when you tighten a loop to a nine inch circumference around a neck with a ten inch circumference (no, I don’t know the real numbers).
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

There are clear photos of "O" train track in the 1993 Christmas footage shown of the Ramsey kids in the video "JonBenet's America (1998)" on YouTube from the 4:29 - 4:50 time markers.

Hola, midwest mama! Nice find. There’s no arguing with that!

...

AK

 

[otg]

There are clear photos of "O" train track in the 1993 Christmas footage shown of the Ramsey kids in the video "JonBenet's America (1998)" on YouTube from the 4:29 - 4:50 time markers.

I agree with AK on this one, mama :cheers: . Should be no question about the existence of the "O" gauge now.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

However If I am reading correctly, There was no pictures of O gauge in the basement the day of the crime? Just because they had it in 93 would that mean they had it in 96? I don't know.

 

[otg]

The “blanched white line below her laryngeal prominence” is not a sign of strangulation, unless it was one that happened after death. That’s what white means – happened after death.

That's too broad a statement for me to completely agree with, AK. In nearly all cases, it is probably true -- and indeed, I believe it was the case here. I didn't say anything to contradict that. If the ligature were left tightened around the neck until death occurs and then moved to another location, it will most likely leave a white line. But death is a process, not an event. There are circumstances where blanching can occur antemortem, and I try to cover all possibilities when I consider the circumstances. Not that any of this makes that much of a difference as to whether the white line was actually formed before, at, or after death, but I tried to cover this possibility in a post [ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=194971&postcount=382"]here[/ame].


(bbm)

But, the abrasions to the right side do give the impression that something else did happen, something before the final tightening and strangulation. I’m pretty open-minded as to what that something could have been, although I do find some explanations to be unlikely.

The furrow is what you get when you tighten a loop to a nine inch circumference around a neck with a ten inch circumference (no, I don’t know the real numbers).
...

AK

No, the furrow is what you get when the tightened loop is left on the neck for a long enough period of time for it to form a permanent groove in the tissue.

 

[Anti-K]

There is no post-mortem bloating and no post-mortem swelling. The ligature is embedded as we see it purely as a function of how tight it was pulled.
...

AK