Was BR involved? #2

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AndHence said:
A smaller time frame between the two injuries would make BDI a lot more plausible. It also explains away the problem of having to decide if the garroting was part of the staging and, if so, was the person did the staging different from the person who committed the head blow, etc. In a BDI scenario, it's highly likely that the parents didn't know about the head injury; they may have just thought JonBenet's neck was broken. We still need some medical consensus regarding the time elapsed between injuries to help shore BDI theory up. OTG's theory is the first I have seen that places the two injuries in a much closer time frame.
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Until Kolar's book was published, the discussion was mostly about which of the two injuries came first -- not how long the period of time was between the two. (BTW, I don't believe the Ramsey parents were aware of the head blow.)


Beyond the questions I have posed in previous posts, it's still hard for me to believe the parents would cover for Burke only to let him immediately out of their sight where they'd have little control over the flow of information.
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At the time Burke was relocated to the Whites' house, Ramsey friends (I believe it was Barbara Fernie who first mentioned it) were beginning to question why an "early-riser" like Burke was still upstairs sleeping, especially considering the noise and commotion going on just one floor below his bedroom and on the day they were supposed to be leaving early to fly to their vacation home in Michigan. So John had to make a choice. Should he continue arousing suspicion by letting Burke stay upstairs pretending to sleep like he had probably been told; or should he wake him hoping he doesn't say something to one of the many "guests" in the house that would blow the narrative; or would it be best to send him off to somewhere away from the cops and detectives where he would be playing with one of his friends and all the new toys they both got for Christmas? If you knew the information Burke could have let slip with cops all over the house (at that time), which is the best choice?

(And if you agree that he made the best choice considering what he had to gamble and what he was up against, do you think he would have made the same decision were he afraid of some lunatic "foreign faction" in Boulder watching his house and kidnapping his children?)


Burke was interviewed twice within the first ten days of the murder -- something people often forget.
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Technically correct, but what purpose did the interviews serve?

The first "interview" was when Det. Fred Patterson went to question Burke while at the Whites' house to see if he knew anything, or had heard anything during the night, that his parents weren't aware of. Because of the nonchalant answers he gave between bites of a sandwich, Patterson concluded he didn't know anything and didn't pursue the matter any further.

The second time he was questioned was by a child psychologist. This interview was recommended (required probably) by CPS to make certain he felt safe in his home environment. After all, his sister had been killed in his home assumedly while he slept. His parents were suspects. CPS needed to know if he should be removed from the Ramsey home. His possible involvement was never questioned.
 
(snipped)
otg said:
Until Kolar's book was published, the discussion was mostly about which of the two injuries came first -- not how long the period of time was between the two.
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Just a quick search here at WS turned up the following threads:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?12926-What-came-first-the-Chicken-or-the-Egg
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?70053-Which-came-first-Strangulation-or-Head-Trauma
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?97600-Is-it-possible
 
UKGuy said:
otg,

It appears that Kolar is extrapolating from the minimum time period for the pineapple to travel to its destination in JonBenet's digestive tract.

Presumably if you extrapolate backwards you get a contradiction, i.e. JonBenet is still at the White's.

So Kolar feels comfortable with both the notion of time required for the brain swelling and the period of pineapple digestion.

Personally I'm not certain what this tells us, or even if it was fact why its relevant to Kolar's theory?

.
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A proper timeline could tell us a lot. Great point regarding contradictions in the known timeline depending on which angle of the crime(or events leading up to the crime) is being looked at.

I've wondered if its possible that Jonbenet and John and/or Patsy, or even Jonbenet and another adult(one of the Whites?) made an innocent trip back to the Ramsey home during that Christmas party. A situation such as the Ramseys forgetting a gift at their house, maybe a dish/dessert Patsy made, so they made a quick trip back home to get it and then went back to the party. THis could be when Jonbenet takes a bite or two of pineapple and no one sees it and/or cares.. Its not like a child would announce that they just took a few bites of fruit. Such a scenario would easily account for the time elapsed for the pineapple digestion in certain theories.

Unfortunately we'll never know since BPD did a terrible job retracing her steps in the hours/days leading up to her murder.

otg....thanks for posting a link to your theory. Bookmarked it and will read it tomorrow. I need to give BDI a much closer, serious look even though I believe she was likely murdered by her parents and IF an accident or Burke did something, they finished her off because they knew she had been abused and weren't going to risk their house of cards crumbling down by taking her to the hospital alive.
 
singularity said:
A proper timeline could tell us a lot. Great point regarding contradictions in the known timeline depending on which angle of the crime(or events leading up to the crime) is being looked at.

I've wondered if its possible that Jonbenet and John and/or Patsy, or even Jonbenet and another adult(one of the Whites?) made an innocent trip back to the Ramsey home during that Christmas party. A situation such as the Ramseys forgetting a gift at their house, maybe a dish/dessert Patsy made, so they made a quick trip back home to get it and then went back to the party. THis could be when Jonbenet takes a bite or two of pineapple and no one sees it and/or cares.. Its not like a child would announce that they just took a few bites of fruit. Such a scenario would easily account for the time elapsed for the pineapple digestion in certain theories.

Unfortunately we'll never know since BPD did a terrible job retracing her steps in the hours/days leading up to her murder.

otg....thanks for posting a link to your theory. Bookmarked it and will read it tomorrow. I need to give BDI a much closer, serious look even though I believe she was likely murdered by her parents and IF an accident or Burke did something, they finished her off because they knew she had been abused and weren't going to risk their house of cards crumbling down by taking her to the hospital alive.
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singularity,
The pineapple allows for a probable time line since it would have been quickly digested by JonBenet, it just depends when you think she ate it, some time after say, 10:00 pm or later? Later patently moves the time line forward and explains away Kolar's reason for a time gap between the head blow and asphyxiation?

The curious thing about the time line is apart from any specific time, most people agree on the events, so by roughly 1:00 AM JonBenet was dead, that leaves Four Hours to get any staging done, to run a washing machine and biologically wipe away any forensic evidence, time to clean up the breakfast bar, to redress JonBenet in pajamas and underwear, to tidy up JonBenet's bedroom removing any links to BR and any fecal stains left on objects, none of this was done, and it left the parents exposed.

One aspect to Kolar's proposed time gap is that it would allow for the head blow to precede any sexual assault, so explaining why JonBenet has three separate serious injuries?

.
 
EXCLUSIVE: Pageant princess JonBenet Ramsey's brother Burke to reveal shocking never-before-heard details about his sister's tragic murder in bombshell interview with Dr. Phil McGraw

* Burke Ramsey, now 29, breaks his silence about the horrific murder of his sister Jon Benet as the 20th anniversary of her death approaches

* Burke was only nine years old when JonBenet was found bludgeoned and strangled in the basement of their Boulder, Colorado home

* He will reveal what he knows about his six-year-old sister’s mysterious murder in exclusive interview with Dr. Phil, Daily Mail Online has learned

* Patsy and John Ramsey were the primary suspects in the case for over a decade, but were finally cleared in 2008

* Patsy died of ovarian cancer two years before in 2006

* At one time the finger of suspicion was pointed at Burke because he was in the house when JonBenet was reported missing

* But parents stood firm on the fact that he was sleeping the entire time and was exonerated by DNA evidence in May, 1999

* Dr. Phil's three-part interview will air beginning September 12
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Read More ...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...urder-bombshell-interview-Dr-Phil-McGraw.html

Didn't I say it would happen?


.
 
Wow. I had a feeling something would happen this year. Not sure what exactly and this may just be the beginning.

I still don't think he killed her but glad he is finally coming forward with info.
 
Damn...my post started a new page. To anyone just clicking on the last page of this thread, UK just posted this news.....


EXCLUSIVE: Pageant princess JonBenet Ramsey's brother Burke to reveal shocking never-before-heard details about his sister's tragic murder in bombshell interview with Dr. Phil McGraw

* Burke Ramsey, now 29, breaks his silence about the horrific murder of his sister Jon Benet as the 20th anniversary of her death approaches

* Burke was only nine years old when JonBenet was found bludgeoned and strangled in the basement of their Boulder, Colorado home

* He will reveal what he knows about his six-year-old sister’s mysterious murder in exclusive interview with Dr. Phil, Daily Mail Online has learned

* Patsy and John Ramsey were the primary suspects in the case for over a decade, but were finally cleared in 2008

* Patsy died of ovarian cancer two years before in 2006

* At one time the finger of suspicion was pointed at Burke because he was in the house when JonBenet was reported missing

* But parents stood firm on the fact that he was sleeping the entire time and was exonerated by DNA evidence in May, 1999

* Dr. Phil's three-part interview will air beginning September 12

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3715211/Pageant-princess-JonBenet-Ramsey-s-brother-Burke-Ramsey-reveal-shocking-never-heard-details-sister-s-tragic-murder-bombshell-interview-Dr-Phil-McGraw.html
 
I'm not going to get too caught up in the "shocking details" line.......that's a headline to get you to click thread and of course watch the show. Having said that, it's interesting on many levels....for starters the fact he's never publicly commented.

I assume this is where we speculate on what he will reveal that is "shocking" and "Never heard before".

I'll go first....

At a minimum he will reveal something like he was awake that night but is lacking details on what happened, maybe even a domestic dispute in progress and was told to go to bed....never sees her again.

If we're talking bombshells here, maybe something about the Dec. 23rd party or even Fleet White(or JAR) being present at the home that night.

Chances of him admitting John or Patsy actually killed her are zero IMO. Wont get that kind of info until after John is dead.

Media wants credit for cracking the case this year. Dr. Phil got to Burke.

Who is next?

Time for some loose lips to start sinking this ship.
 
My thanks to UKGuy and also Singularity for the heads up about BR upcoming interview with drphil. This is an interesting change of events for him (BR) to grant any public interview at all.

Human nature of the collective "public audience" will undoubtedly speak up also regarding its opinion of this twenty year old murder case. Let's just wait and see if BR is viewed as sincere or not. drphil show notoriously pays large sums of money for high profile interviews, but then so do BW and other major news outlets. At least we get to find out for ourselves if what we see on camera is smoke-n-mirrors and play-acting, or if some truth is revealed.

It says interview will broadcast Sept 12. Good. And as for me, that gives me time to go find a tv to watch it. Ahem. have learned that most drphil shows can almost never be found online or taped, ugh.

Yikes, I sound too negative this morning, I'm sorry! At least BR is now coming out!
 
* He will reveal what he knows about his six-year-old sister’s mysterious murder in exclusive interview with Dr. Phil, Daily Mail Online has learned


If BR sticks by the R's version of events he should have little to say about JonBenet's death. I'll bet he gets media coaching prior to the interview, if not, he's guaranteed to fall over at some point.

If BR contradicts anything FW or LHP have said then maybe they will do an interview too? If I was Tricia I'd be on the phone to FW asking if he will do an Anniversary Interview similar to BR's, offering him the opportunity to reply to anything BR states as fact, bearing in mind FW relocated BR that fateful morning.

This is basically BR coming out of the shadows. I wonder if Dr Phil will ask BR why he wont do an interview with the cold case review team if he is happy enough to do one with him?

Answers on a postcard only ...

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Woah!!!

Really, really excited about this. I doubt he will say anything truly revelatory and he will most likely prescribe to IDI but It will be really, really interesting to hear him talk and see a glimpse of what he's like. Sleuths, please, please record this for us in other countries who can't watch it on air date. Counting on you! A bit frustrating it's spread on 3 episodes instead of 1, is there so much info overflowing? Exciting times
 
What would BR's possible motive be for doing this interview? Especially with Dr. Phil of all people, surely it can't be for the money. I was considering canceling our cable soon but I might need to keep it until September now.
 
UKGuy said:
I wonder if Dr Phil will ask BR why he wont do an interview with the cold case review team if he is happy enough to do one with him?
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If he's asked that, It'll toe the Ramsey line.......cops trying to frame them, blah blah blah. They might as well have the Guns N Roses track 'Out Ta Get Me' as their theme song.


Answers on a postcard only ...
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Absolutely. Yes....No.....I don't know.....Don't remember......his mom was the master at this.

There will be no huge revelation. We'd have already heard some of it as they would have gave some info to really hype this show.

I'd love to be wrong.

Having said that, he's clearly said something.


it's spread on 3 episodes instead of 1, is there so much info overflowing?
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I have not watched Dr Phil since the early 2000s so not sure of its format, but there will likely be short segments on each episode with Burke to simply drag it out for ratings.
 
It is wonderful that BR will speak publically to a national audience. And thanks, eileenhawkeye, for posting that we also have, coincidentally, an ID special those same three days in September.

Never been a BDI. I pray that he has found some measure of Peace from this unthinkable crime committed against his little sister.

FW and JR carted BR right out of the front door that horrible morning in Boulder. Never was and never will be a FW fan.

:cow:
 
Well, the Anthony's got what, 500k for their 2 part... i'm thinking BR needs some cash. And we'll get NO answers.
 
Hi all. I know very little about this case. Is there a list somewhere of all the "players" here? I am seeing a lot of initials that I don't know. Not sure where to find out who they all are.
 
I don't think Burke is married or has kids. I think we would know about it if he was.


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