Was Burke Involved ? # 3

[bxbbysoxer]

We probably wouldn't know about it, if it was immediately after the crime. He was a child and he couldn't be charged in Colorado. I assume some family court would have handled it. Names probably withheld. It certainly would be forgotten by now.

I don't know about that - remember Thompson and Venebles, the boys who killed James Bulger? Sure, Burke couldn't have been convicted of murder, but I don't think it would have just been forgotten, even had JonBenet not been in the pageants.

 

[mrseeker]

When I listened to the "enhanced" 9-11 call I really couldn't be sure what was being said in the background. I remember another case several years ago, they bugged the suspects house and then tried to claim all kinds of things were being said. A judge finally threw it out. My point is, we can't be sure what is said. Perhaps "we are not talking to you" was really " I need to talk to you, or who are you talking to? or something like that. I think the 9-11 operator made the best observation. PR went from frantic to controlled as soon as she was not thought to be on the phone any longer. Perhaps the muffled talking is JR realizing its a fake. Perhaps PR dropped the phone when BR walked in, or JR came back to the kitchen to ask PR what have you done? We know BR did not stage the body, scene and write the note. All of that was done before the 911 call. At that point, if you believe PR wrote the note, and I am certain of it, she is the only one for sure who knows the entire story, yet she is lying on the call. If JR came back to the kitchen after figuring it out, he probably wanted an explanation. He probably would be talking sternly to PR not BR.

 

[Petal]

-John reported that he had gone to the basement earlier and found the door to the Train Room ‘kinda blocked…there was a chair in front of the doors… window was cracked open… maybe an inch.’

Kolar, A. James. Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? (Kindle Locations 3381-3382). Ventus Publishing, llc. Kindle Edition.

 

[bxbbysoxer]

-John reported that he had gone to the basement earlier and found the door to the Train Room ‘kinda blocked…there was a chair in front of the doors… window was cracked open… maybe an inch.’

Kolar, A. James. Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? (Kindle Locations 3381-3382). Ventus Publishing, llc. Kindle Edition.

Thank you!

 

[Luckymanuh]

On DP page there are two videos of an interview with a Pastor from a church I guess PR and JR belonged to. They were posted by someone under his DNA post. Very telling after last night's show

 

[HarmonyE.]

I don't know about that - remember Thompson and Venebles, the boys who killed James Bulger? Sure, Burke couldn't have been convicted of murder, but I don't think it would have just been forgotten, even had JonBenet not been in the pageants.

Thompson and Venebles were tried and held at Her Majesty's pleasure until they were released as adults and given new identities. I agree that the JonBenet story would still be remembered today if Burke had been id'd as the killer immediately, but it would have been kept pretty quiet due to his underage status. So probably not as sensational as the Bulger case.

 

[Scandigirl]

Hi everyone! I'm usually a lurker here, but with recent developments I felt compelled to share my thoughts. With the explosion of indicators that are leaning now towards a BDI scenario, there is one thing that doesn't add up to me, and gives me a few doubts. I wonder if anyone else has any ideas or explanations?
It's that, if John and Patsy were the type of compassionate and devoted/loyal parents to literally risk everything to save their son, how to explain the attitudes displayed towards the most tragic and innocent victim, JonBenet? With BDI, the parents would be showing selfless love, forgiveness and understanding towards Burke, the perpetrator, but yet they have shown curious attitudes towards JB all along. They had difficulty mentioning JB directly by name, calling her "that child", "a handful", she was better off not knowing suffering in life, and John even recently described his "joy' at discovering her dead body. I know everyone grieves differently, and choice of language can be individual up to a point, but these have always been red flags to me.
In fact, it's similar to Burke's flippant lack of concern towards JB in his Dr Phil interviews. It's almost as though all three of them are relieved, almost happy that JB is gone, or blamed her in some way for what happened? Sorry for being long and rambling, but just curious to see what others think about this, as it doesn't add up to me? If BDI, it doesn't make sense for the parents to support the abuser, but seemingly have little real grief towards their other child, who was the real tragic victim?

 

[Errrr]

Exactly. You have 2 distraught adults who clearly were locked in a power struggle (in life, not just this night). Each had their own tendencies, and it is evident in the contradictory, unusual, and downright bizarre aspects of the cover-up. The nonsense makes complete sense when looked through that lens.

Especially if they're a bit boozy after a night of party. This one scenario I posited was because these two don't seem fond enough of each other to create such a cover up for a minor.
I have not read the Kolar book but I have read reviews and feel it has tremendous credibility. I would no longer say it's impossible for BR to be involved. It explains the railroad tracks. I can see kids poking at dead or injured things like that. I think the strangling is too sophisticated though. That particular person is the murderer.

 

[Errrr]

For myself, the whole case changed when Burke admitted that he had snuck downstairs after the house was settled and everyone was presumably in their own bedrooms, and that he 'might' have eaten pineapple with JB.

- Undigested pineapple was found in JB's stomach during the autopsy. This means that the time frame between her eating the pineapple and her death couldn't have been very long at all.
- According to Burke he was the only one awake in the house except for JB.

For Burke to say that he neither heard nor saw anything suspicious (imo) is a complete and utter lie.

Moving on...there's been speculation that he as Asperger's Syndrome. That very well may be true. However, I too have Asperger's, and while every case is not the same I find his lack of empathy and emotion to be insane. Yes, sometimes we who have Asperger's have to look to others to get social clues and to carefully read emotional responses, but if my six year old sister was brutally murdered you can bet that I would react pretty horrifically and be a mess. I cannot chalk up his behavior to 'socially awkward' or simply Asperger's. I think that there is so much more going on with Burke.

The autopsy report states that the pineapple was in the small intestine which is why they figure 1 1/2 to 2 hrs before death. http://hosted.ap.org/specials/intera...ey_autopsy.pdf
That's a long time to be playing downstairs after lights out. Patsy also appeared to have never gone to bed.....unless miss America wears the same outfit for breakfast as she did for a party

 

[mauratom]

I am a long time follower first time poster. Here are my thoughts.. Luckymanuh I am with you, with but another option: JBR and BR after returning home after Christmas day events. In their rooms for the night or so the parents thought. Thinking mom and dad went to sleep, they both decided to sneak downstairs to play with Christmas presents, as affirmed by BR interview with DP. Once downstairs they decided to have a snack, pineapple and tea. While in the kitchen they took the flashlight from drawer as not to wake parents while sneaking around. All kids love flashlights. I argument ensued as kids often fight, perhaps over the flashlight or a toy. BR upset with JBR hits her over the head with the flash light and she falls the ground. Thinking its nothing Burke continues to play OR tells parents of the problem. PR and JR decide JB is dead and decide to stage the murder. PR writes the ransom note while JR takes JBR body down to the basement to stage abduction. JR knows this is the same window he broke months earlier.
I think BR made a BIG mistake in his interview with DP. This all protects the family including BR from outsiders. I don’t think BR was malicious in his actions, most likely a kid acting out of frustration and anger. IMO of course.

 

[HarmonyE.]

The autopsy report states that the pineapple was in the small intestine which is why they figure 1 1/2 to 2 hrs before death. http://hosted.ap.org/specials/intera...ey_autopsy.pdf
That's a long time to be playing downstairs after lights out. Patsy also appeared to have never gone to bed.....unless miss America wears the same outfit for breakfast as she did for a party

Medical examiners believed there was a significant gap in time between the head strike and the strangulation, and it was the strangulation that ended her life. So the kids may have not been downstairs for all that long before the head whack happened.

 

[InstantProof]

I think the pineapple was when they first got home. Later, after bed time, Burke goes downstairs to play (uses flashlight to see?) and JB follows. Patsy never changes for bed. So the timeline is pretty tight.

 

[Errrr]

Medical examiners believed there was a significant gap in time between the head strike and the strangulation, and it was the strangulation that ended her life. So the kids may have not been downstairs for all that long before the head whack happened.

If PR didn't find out till she got up next morning(dressed back in her party clothes) when did she have time to write War & Peace?

 

[Luckymanuh]

The more I think about what was presented in CBS's show last night I truly feel sorry for BR. I am sure at some level he did not mean to hurt JBR. I am sure it was a case of JBR saying I am going to tell Mommy and Daddy you are down here playing, like siblings do with tattling because he would not let her play with his train or whatever toy. He got angry grabbed the flashlight and swung it and it hit her in the head. It was stated last night that it would not have taken alot of force.
JR and PR instead of doing the right thing decided for the good of the family name, their wealth to cover it up. I doubt BR has received the proper mental health treatment he needed at that time also.
Sounds like a public family, the Duggars, and what they did with their son all for the family name and money. The victims are the ones left without a voice when a cover up happens. IMO.

 

[Errrr]

I think the pineapple was when they first got home. Later, after bed time, Burke goes downstairs to play (uses flashlight to see?) and JB follows. Patsy never changes for bed. So the timeline is pretty tight.

Frankly, I rate the credibility of a nine years olds memory of timeline after twenty years a 5/10.

 

[hot cawfeee]

I don't think PR ever changed her clothes.....IIRC from a police interview she did, PR said she took her prior night's clothes from the bathtub where she left them, put on clean underwear, redressed and went down stairs to make coffee . She found the Note (War and Peace-- I love this forum !) on the stairs. She said the Note had been left on the stairs--- I dispute this. I think she left it on the counter when she finished writing it.

am looking forward to Dr Phil today....I watched a lot of the other JBR shows this weekend.

 

[HarmonyE.]

The more I think about what was presented in CBS's show last night I truly feel sorry for BR. I am sure at some level he did not mean to hurt JBR. I am sure it was a case of JBR saying I am going to tell Mommy and Daddy you are down here playing, like siblings do with tattling because he would not let her play with his train or whatever toy. He got angry grabbed the flashlight and swung it and it hit her in the head. It was stated last night that it would not have taken alot of force.
JR and PR instead of doing the right thing decided for the good of the family name, their wealth to cover it up. I doubt BR has received the proper mental health treatment he needed at that time also.
Sounds like a public family, the Duggars, and what they did with their son all for the family name and money. The victims are the ones left without a voice when a cover up happens. IMO.

Had they called 911 right away, JonBenet still may not have been able to survive, and it would have been horrible and ultimately embarrassing for them to admit their son did such a thing (and if she was being sexually abused by him their shame and guilt would have been compounded). But it would have been far better for all three of them had JR and PR just done the right thing. Even though they stymied law enforcement, they gained nothing and came perilously close to being indicted for child endangerment and for being accessories to murder. And worse still, they denied their son the treatment he so badly needed and deserved. Seeing him on Dr. Phil was pretty shocking for me. Burke is nearly 30; I did not expect to see a teenage boy instead of a man.

 

[minazoe]

I think in the Dr. Phil interviews he said he was a computer engineer who works from home. He said he has a girlfriend. I believe he graduated from Northwestern.

Uh, good luck with that girlfriend thing now, BR...

 

[gregjrichards]

Uh, good luck with that girlfriend thing now, BR...

You would be surprised look at the people who marry death row inmates etc.

 

[otg]

Not only would Burke have been tagged as a molester, but suspicions would also be cast on John.

In that way, you can almost see how initiating a cover-up was in John's best interest, even if he wasn't the one abusing Jonbenet.

Early on, the Ramsey PR team called a "secret" news conference. Attendees were by invitation only and they were given a password in order to be allowed in (the password was the word "subtract" -- don't ask me why). Here is what John said to address his daughter's sexual assault and molestatipn (from PMPT):

“Let me address it very directly: I did not kill my daughter JonBenét. There have also been innuendoes that she had been or was sexually molested. I can tell you that those were the most hurtful innuendoes to us as a family. They are totally false. JonBenét and I had a very close relationship”—Ramsey stumbled over his dead daughter’s name. Then he added: “I will miss her dearly the rest of my life.”
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