Was Burke Involved? # 4

[icedtea4me]

Patsy lied about everything!
She suffered from Ramnesia.
So anything coming out of her mouth is useless.

Really? Everything? Every single, solitary thing?

 

[singularity]

Patsy lied about everything!
She suffered from Ramnesia.
So anything coming out of her mouth is useless.

He/she has a point PL although I assume you are exaggerating to make a point. We were just having a discussion on her interview in a different thread so I don't see how all her comments are useless. If I thought all of her comments were useless I wouldn't then hold them against her. Those interviews comprise a hefty chunk on what we know about what happened even though I doubt everything contained in them is 100% truth obviously.. Even the John/Smit interview which is the absolute worst of the bunch contains a few nuggets of info.

 

[Ambitioned]

Patsy lied about everything!
She suffered from Ramnesia.
So anything coming out of her mouth is useless.

Pretty much. If you go over her interviews carefully. (Hello Excedrin) She has so many inconsistencies and lies. I think it just snowballed out of control and she lost track of which lies were which.

And then she was also clueless. "I don't recall" "I haven't a clue" "Maybe, I don't know..." It's a blooming miracle she remembered her name.

And people say she was valiumed out of her mind as if that's an excuse. That's no excuse. Your daughter is dead and you believe IDI. You better damn well try to find the killer.

 

[andreww]

Really? Everything? Every single, solitary thing?

Yes, everything that was important anyway.


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[andreww]

Technically, the asphyxiation killed. her, and that can not be in any way construed an accident. I do wonder if the pair of charges was to avoid some sort of double jeopardy issue in the future, depending on one trial or the other. I have a hard time accepting that they all thought BR committed a murder, the parents covered it all up, and they let everyone go on their merry way. You'd think at the very least BR would have been given some form of court supervision, if he had such serious issues and with parents unable to rationally deal with them. I don't know, maybe he did get that.

I still believe that the reason the GJ did not recommend murder charges is that from the evidence it is impossible to say with certainty who did it. It's quite clear both parents had a hand in covering this up so its not hard to prove their involvement, but are they covering for Burke, Patsy or John? That's a lot tougher question.


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[TeaTime]

I believe Pam G was the seamstress whose daughter coached JB. The photographer was Judith Phillips. Both she and her husband are on the record saying they think Burke did it and that there were jealousy issues between BR and JB. Judith knew the Ramseys for years but only casually. Tom Miller never met them but was a lawyer/PI hired by Craig Lewis of the Globe who was aggressively covering the Ramsey case. I wonder why they came to that conclusion and why they've decided to state this publicly. I was fairly surprised to see her state that on two different shows last month. Probably knows she doesn't have enough money for Lin Wood to bother.

From what I've watched and read about her, I get the impression that she really struggled with the idea that her friend Patsy could have done this to JB, to the extent that maybe BDI is easier to live with. Just a thought.

Droll - thanks for the clarification, I got the names confused, you are right it was Phillips. And, there was no reason whatsoever for her to make up a story about her asking PR before the photo shoot, "what happened to JBR's eye?" She said PR told her BR hit JBR with a golf club out of anger.

Judith had no dog in this show, no reason to invent a story. PR had every reason to reinvent reality.

 

[TeaTime]

I still believe that the reason the GJ did not recommend murder charges is that from the evidence it is impossible to say with certainty who did it. It's quite clear both parents had a hand in covering this up so its not hard to prove their involvement, but are they covering for Burke, Patsy or John? That's a lot tougher question.

The GJ didn't charge either of them with Murder in the First Degree. This is extremely important in determining the GJ's conclusions and should not be taken as "they couldn't figure out who killed her". When there are 2 prime suspects in a murder and it can not be determined which one caused the fatal blow, BOTH are charged and both can be convicted. It happens all the time. It is as obvious as the nose on my face that the GJ determined that BR struck the fatal blow and that the parents conspired in the cover up of his actions.

There is no other way to interpret their conclusion.

I believe that Hunter created his own form of justice and decided that losing their daughter due to their 'infant" son's behavior was enough punishment. He excused their conspiracy of protecting BR at all costs and may have made it known that psychiatric therapy and moving out of state were the price they would pay for their 'forgivable' crimes.

JMHO

 

[Ambitioned]

I believe that Hunter created his own form of justice and decided that losing their daughter due to their 'infant" son's behavior was enough punishment.

JMHO

Agreed!

 

[buggiegirl]

Perhaps BR was seeing that psychiatrist even before JB was murdered.. ? That's what I've been wondering. With the other hints we have (the golf club incident, the fecal smearing, the books sent to PR by Nedra Paugh, etc.), it wouldn't be surprising. In fact, it would be somewhat surprising if he were not already in therapy prior to this event.

Even without the odd behavior, he may have been in some kind of therapy due to his mom's cancer. That would be terrifying for a young child and it would be pretty normal to have them talking to someone to help them cope.

 

[UKGuy]

The GJ didn't charge either of them with Murder in the First Degree. This is extremely important in determining the GJ's conclusions and should not be taken as "they couldn't figure out who killed her". When there are 2 prime suspects in a murder and it can not be determined which one caused the fatal blow, BOTH are charged and both can be convicted. It happens all the time. It is as obvious as the nose on my face that the GJ determined that BR struck the fatal blow and that the parents conspired in the cover up of his actions.

There is no other way to interpret their conclusion.

I believe that Hunter created his own form of justice and decided that losing their daughter due to their 'infant" son's behavior was enough punishment. He excused their conspiracy of protecting BR at all costs and may have made it known that psychiatric therapy and moving out of state were the price they would pay for their 'forgivable' crimes.

JMHO

TeaTime,
The case is BDI all day long. With the release of the True Bills and BR doing Dr Phil along with the CBS series being eviscerated, what more do you need to know?

I'd love to see what cuttings are lying on the CBS studio floor, that 3rd episode without the flashlight blunt force theory is one documentary I'd love to see.

Can you imagine what they came up with, so that BR was forced to do Dr Phil and LW litigated on the 3rd episode, there must have been a smoking gun?

I believe that Hunter created his own form of justice and decided that losing their daughter due to their 'infant" son's behavior was enough punishment. He excused their conspiracy of protecting BR at all costs and may have made it known that psychiatric therapy and moving out of state were the price they would pay for their 'forgivable' crimes.

I reckon a backroom deal was done, where AH would deliver on no filing and JR would offer a quid pro quo over some business contract.

JR is wasting his money on LW since once he goes and another anniversary arrives, the finger pointing and accusations will be all the more strident.

The cat, as they say, is out of the bag, everyone and their dog now knows the case is BDI. I wonder what Doug Stine's buddies must be saying behind his back, what will Susan Stine do next?

.

 

[flourish]

Deleted

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

He/she has a point PL although I assume you are exaggerating to make a point. We were just having a discussion on her interview in a different thread so I don't see how all her comments are useless. If I thought all of her comments were useless I wouldn't then hold them against her. Those interviews comprise a hefty chunk on what we know about what happened even though I doubt everything contained in them is 100% truth obviously.. Even the John/Smit interview which is the absolute worst of the bunch contains a few nuggets of info.

I agree with all of the above.

I don't know icedtea4me personally but unless I am mistaking him or her for someone else, they have been a longtime poster on the case and used to post on FFJ. Not a troll, just someone who isn't necessarily on the BDI train. And from what I've seen in reading old FFJ threads, someone whose posts are pretty good. I don't think they're trying to disrupt the thread. They may come off a little blunt because they've been here so long and are skeptical. That said, I'm not a mind reader.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that because I like reading from all the posters involved here and wanted to nip any acrimony in the bud if possible. Ultimately we're all on the same side.

 

[PositiveLight]

I agree with all of the above.

I don't know icedtea4me personally but unless I am mistaking him or her for someone else, they have been a longtime poster on the case and used to post on FFJ. Not a troll, just someone who isn't necessarily on the BDI train. And from what I've seen in reading old FFJ threads, someone whose posts are pretty good. I don't think they're trying to disrupt the thread. They may come off a little blunt because they've been here so long and are skeptical. That said, I'm not a mind reader.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that because I like reading from all the posters involved here and wanted to nip any acrimony in the bud if possible. Ultimately we're all on the same side.

Listen I am not angry lol. I was just making a point. Of course EVERYTHING is not a lie that Patsy said. But she did a lot of covering and lying. To the point you want to question everything she says. She lost credibility in my opinion with many of her lies and "broken memories." So no I don't automatically believe she is lying in every interview. But! I don't automatically believe what she says is the truth either.
I know icedtea4me is a long time poster. I've read a lot on here. I'm wanting to make a point that the comment to me was unneeded. The answer is obvious to their question. It was taken as a sarcastic comment and I responded sarcastically too. I will just bite my tongue from now on.

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[HarmonyE.]

I would actually like to see more "No way Burke could have done it!" posters. Echo chambers can get dull.

 

[UKGuy]

New analysis of JonBenet evidence suggests Ramsey family should NOT have been cleared based on DNA results and that there are traces of multiple people on victim's clothes.

Forensic experts have reexamined the DNA evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case

They concluded that the DNA samples found on the girl's underwear and long johns belonged to multiple people, not one person

This discovery means that former Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacy did not have enough evidence to exonerate the Ramsey family in 2008

It also means that the unknown male who law enforcement have been searching for does not exist as it is a composite of multiple DNAs


More Here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-traces-multiple-people-victim-s-clothes.html

and

Here: http://www.9news.com/news/investiga...-the-dna-in-the-jonbent-ramsey-case/343376600

And: http://www.dailycamera.com/news/jonbenet-ramsey/ci_30514220

I wonder if this was going to feed into the CBS 3rd episode?


.

 

[UKGuy]

Are these BR's longjohns, i.e. did he redress JonBenet in the size-12's and longjohns, all that staining looks creepy?

.

 

[southernmimi]

Those look like little boy long johns. Why would she be wearing boys clothing? I agree the staining is very creepy...even after all these years.

 

[PositiveLight]

Are these BR's longjohns, i.e. did he redress JonBenet in the size-12's and longjohns, all that staining looks creepy?

.

I wondered the same thing.
They do look like boys long johns. These wouldn't be hard to redress her in.
I've read so many different descriptions of what she was wearing, from long johns to tights to leggings. These in my opinion, are none of the three. The other descriptions make it hard to imagine her being redressed limp. But these would look very easy to use. This makes the staging even easier to grasp now.

 

[southernmimi]

This looks more like thermal underwear to me. Much different than little girl leggings/long johns..

 

[TeaTime]

Those just cannot be the longjohns that JBR was found in, they are boys clothes! And very short in the leg, like knickers for baseball.

Where did you get this photo UK GUY?