PositiveLight
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So there is a small possibility? I pray there is. The way I look at it is... .they had 20 more years to live free that JonBenet didn't. It's time to pay the piper.
Was Burke Involved? # 4
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ME ME - Stefanie Damron, 13, New Sweden, 24 Sep 2024- Latest: modesty blaise
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PositiveLight
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It definitely is a lot to take in!
I had forgotten until today again about the previous 911 calls from the 23rd Christmas party. I still want to know what that was about! The case is so sad yet so fascinating at the same time. That all of the right things had to fall in place for this crime to remain unsolved for 20 years.
So many questions weren't asked or followed up on that should have been. Even the lay person can see it and say what the heck!?
debbiegarcia36
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kanzz
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Don't think so. From what little I understand of the law, even if they were to change the infancy law on Monday it would only apply from that day forward.
PositiveLight
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I do think it needs to be changed honestly regardless of this case.
I don't want to see this happen again. At least have the age drastically lowered and give the DA the OPTION to press charges or not. Especially if the intent was there.
I get tired of hearing the people on TV say "BUT he was NEVER a suspect!" Well they are right about that. Because he couldn't be! That doesn't mean he didn't do it. It just means they couldn't press charges against him. I think if that law didn't exist, he would have been charged fairly quickly due to his interview answers alone.
Meara
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Here's a link about JR's wool shirt being dry cleaned:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Should-apologize-to-JonBenet-not-her-parents!
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Should-apologize-to-JonBenet-not-her-parents!
PositiveLight
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Thank you for the link!!!
That was interesting! Plus I also learned John was on a few meds himself. Interesting!
kanzz
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Umm.. I think he could have been a suspect and probably should have been a suspect early on.. as all three of them should have been. It's one thing to suspect that he committed the crime and another thing to charge him with the murder. Yes, they could have and still can suspect him. Nobody in that house should have been immune to suspicion.
PositiveLight
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There are a few reasons I could see BR dabbling in cross dressing honestly. It's not that uncommon.
1.)His mother went through a very serious stage 4 ovarian cancer. That is traumatic in it's self.
2.) His daddy wasn't around much.
3.) His mom when she got better, took her time away from Burke and started with JonBenet's pageants.
4.) He was upset at times people didn't ohh and ahh over him.
5.) There was size 12-14 panties that matched JonBenet's with a sketchy reasoning being for another family member, yet they didn't give them to her.
6.) Burke wanted to be the apple of his mama's eye again. It's possible he felt if he was more feminine, his mama may would show interest in him again.
7.) Mama may have bought him those panties to kind of give him a private outlet to work out the confusion. The panties could be worn under clothing without
being seen by others.
8.) Just because a child may cross dress doesn't mean they are gay or even abnormal. It may signal that he is very stressed and confused though.
9.) His mother may have let him dress up some behind closed doors and John may not have liked it.
There are reasons I wonder this. I don't think it's very far out there either. If you think about it, being "pretty" was important to that family. I could see why BR would
feel the need to try it.
I have a dear friend whose husband cross dressed. She had no clue for 10 years being married to him. Until she came home early one day and caught him wearing her
clothes around the house. They did end up divorcing after a while but she did accept it once he opened up to her about it. He had always done it since he was a kid.
His mother allowed him to dress as a girl behind closed doors. He also wore girl panties growing up. He's not gay either. He just liked to feel pretty. They remain good friends and
he is remarried to a woman and with my friend's encouragement, he let her know up front and his new wife accepted the behavior.
So I do know this from a friend's aspect and what they went through. It's not that out there in my opinion. JMOO
1.)His mother went through a very serious stage 4 ovarian cancer. That is traumatic in it's self.
2.) His daddy wasn't around much.
3.) His mom when she got better, took her time away from Burke and started with JonBenet's pageants.
4.) He was upset at times people didn't ohh and ahh over him.
5.) There was size 12-14 panties that matched JonBenet's with a sketchy reasoning being for another family member, yet they didn't give them to her.
6.) Burke wanted to be the apple of his mama's eye again. It's possible he felt if he was more feminine, his mama may would show interest in him again.
7.) Mama may have bought him those panties to kind of give him a private outlet to work out the confusion. The panties could be worn under clothing without
being seen by others.
8.) Just because a child may cross dress doesn't mean they are gay or even abnormal. It may signal that he is very stressed and confused though.
9.) His mother may have let him dress up some behind closed doors and John may not have liked it.
There are reasons I wonder this. I don't think it's very far out there either. If you think about it, being "pretty" was important to that family. I could see why BR would
feel the need to try it.
I have a dear friend whose husband cross dressed. She had no clue for 10 years being married to him. Until she came home early one day and caught him wearing her
clothes around the house. They did end up divorcing after a while but she did accept it once he opened up to her about it. He had always done it since he was a kid.
His mother allowed him to dress as a girl behind closed doors. He also wore girl panties growing up. He's not gay either. He just liked to feel pretty. They remain good friends and
he is remarried to a woman and with my friend's encouragement, he let her know up front and his new wife accepted the behavior.
So I do know this from a friend's aspect and what they went through. It's not that out there in my opinion. JMOO
PositiveLight
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Has anyone else thought about the window grate in regards to what part it played in the murder?
Have y'all ever played hide and seek as a kid?
I'm sure you have.
I can totally see the boys playing hide and seek and one of them hiding in the window grate at some point before the murder. It would be an excellent hiding spot. I wonder if that's how the boot print got there. It would be an easy thing to happen. Just normal play for kids. A totally innocent explanation. JMOO and a thought of mine.
Have y'all ever played hide and seek as a kid?
I'm sure you have.
I can totally see the boys playing hide and seek and one of them hiding in the window grate at some point before the murder. It would be an excellent hiding spot. I wonder if that's how the boot print got there. It would be an easy thing to happen. Just normal play for kids. A totally innocent explanation. JMOO and a thought of mine.
kanzz
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Quick question: What's the proper method for alerting? TIA
PositiveLight
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icedtea4me
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Do you see the large red dots? Do you know what that is? Well, in case you don't, that is an ellipsis.
2.Printing. a mark or marks as , , or * * *, to indicate an omission or suppression of letters or words.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/ellipsis?s=t
By this ellipsis, anyone with common sense can see that Patsy didn't get to finish what she was going to say. Why? Because she was interrupted by Det Trujillo.
singularity
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I no longer think she was redressed at all by anybody. Had I saw these photos eons ago I never would have considered such a scenario. You're not going to redress your daughter(or sister) in soiled clothing. I'm even starting to question this whole "wiping down" thing, at least the extent of it. Those pictures speak volumes.
I know you've got Burke putting them on her but we also need to take into account the possibility that she put them on herself. Little kids do things like that. I'm not talking about crossdressing either. That might account for the long johns but the panties are still a head scratcher. Besides, I always envisioned those as brand spanking new, clean as a whistle panties being placed on her but now that we've seen them, it's obviously not the case.
I've said this before but I wish we had a psychiatrist here. I'd like to know the various legitmate reasons why she might have been wearing those. Was Patsy making her wear them for humiliation? What else could have been going on in this dynamic? I'm not sure I buy that "they were a present for a long distance niece" excuse anymore. PL has Burke as a crossdresser which sounds absolutely ridiculous on its surface but at the same time, we cant even rule it out. It's possible that both kids were acting out various issues they were dealing with in that house of horrors.
Tomorrow I'm gonna have to reread some of the transcripts and sections of the books dealing with these issues. These photos are a potential game changer. The timeline is starting to shrink and evolve.
I don't think there can be any doubt that they are Burke's....at least at some point.
Of course she lied. We realize that now. However, its not so easily explained away and tossed into a BDI scenario. The "Why?" is going to be a tad more complicated IMO. If she lied about the long johns(and I agree that it's a lie), she's also lying about the panties, which opens up two new cans of worms. I'd also like to know why she insists that they are clean when they obviously are not. Patsy describing them as clean does not absolve or blame Burke, so what's her motivation in describing them as such? Remember, she's got the pictures staring her in the face during those interviews.
It's going to take a lot more than soiled panties/long johns to place them "dead in the water".
We don't know what her "normal day to day clothing" really was, especially when it comes to what she'd be wearing in the home. We have nothing but pageant photos and a few candids to go by and those photos are more for appearances. It's the razor thin, superficial surface above the inner chaos. The house itself a good example of this. Its beautiful and fancy on the outside but as you walk through the door, the veneer shatters. That's just the house...imagine the turmoil its inhabitants were enduring.
No I cant. That's not how I imagined she had been found and nowhere had it been described like that. It was talk of her being wiped down and redressed, which creates an image of them cleaning her up.
She shouldn't have been left like that. Shame on them. Obviously they shouldn't have killed her to begin with but how in the living hell can you throw her in the cellar in that condition? It's very revealing on how they felt about her.
LIke I said, I'm starting to question this whole wiping down thing. One reason I'm gonna dig through the transcripts/books. I want to see how this was described again. They certainly didn't do a very good job. Was it Thomas who initially said this?
Why would Patsy need to read the police reports? She knew she was getting the questions in advance. She also knew she would wipe the floor with those people.
Excellent post. As Sam Kinison once said to Rodney Dangerfield, I like the way you think....
If John is passing the proverbial torch to Burke, he's placing it in good hands. Unlike John and Patsy, wont be any bizarre slip ups coming from this guy. Magician indeed. While I never thought the flashlight was the likely murder weapon, the moment Burke placed it in their hands that night, I really knew it wasn't. If it is, Burke has no idea that it was which lets him off the hook....yet BDI really runs with the flashlight as if a murderer is going to announce on national TV what the murder weapon was. In the offchance it was, he just deployed John as the countermeasure but people don't see it yet....although I bet our good old Doc is all over that statement like flies on poop.
They are underestimating him just like the cops and the rest of the world underestimated his parents. LIke I said, he's worthy of their torch. He's already got them fooled and this was just his debut. Imagine the ear to ear grin on John.
I hope he speaks again and fairly soon(unlikely). Instead of the focus being on that night, I'd like to see some more background and maybe he'll reveal more of the method to this family's madness.
PositiveLight
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I was just throwing that out there as a possibility in regards to the 12-14 size panties and their purpose. I don't think they were bought for another family member. So who were they originally for?
I agree the home was full of dysfunction. It's quite possible that JonBenet wore them to bed often. She was known to wear hand me downs of Burke's. I know I always liked wearing my brothers hand me down pjs just because they were my big brothers and broken in and soft.
As far as them being stained, I truly feel that when she was taken to just outside the wine cellar and the final ligature was applied, her bladder released. She was on her tummy because of the placement of the ligature on the back of the neck. That put her on her tummy when it occurred. If they were in fact using flashlights to move about the house as the neighbor stated they noticed flashlights in the home, then it would have been easy to over look the wet panties and long johns. Maybe PR handed him the blankets to wrap her in and the urine stains just weren't noticed. Urine can turn darker as it dries. Also if her body was in shut down mode prior to the final ligature, her kidneys may have had showed damage being done as her body shut down, darkening the urine.
http://dying.lovetoknow.com/Physical_Stages_of_Dying
"The body shuts down as the end gets closer. The heart doesn't pump normally which leads to lower blood pressure and less blood going to the arms and legs and other organs like the kidneys. With less blood going to the kidneys, the kidneys stop working which leads to smaller amounts of urine output. The urine may also become darker in color."
singularity
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I'm not doubting that she urinated outside the wine cellar. What this now shows is that she was already wearing this clothing before it happened. Sure we could speculate til the cows come home on how many times she may have urinated, how big her bladder was, etc. to bolster or tear away at each pet theory but that's neither here nor there in the face of the evidence at the moment. Just about every scenario has her being strangled and then the remorseful parents(or Burke) clean her up and redress her in brand new yet oversized panties due to her original pair being soiled and then the rest of the staging commences. We can now take the 'he/she/they redressed her in new clothing after she was murdered' out of the equation.
In the darkness they may not have seen it but they certainly smelled it and felt it. Look at those stains again. She was drenched.
I hope more evidence continues to trickle out.
In the darkness they may not have seen it but they certainly smelled it and felt it. Look at those stains again. She was drenched.
I hope more evidence continues to trickle out.
PositiveLight
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She was definitely drenched!
I sure hope more evidence is revealed. Praying that it happens!
SweetCaramels
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Yeah, I don't think that qualifies as lying or misleading. who doesn't inadvertently mix up pronouns
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