Was Burke Involved? # 4

[ThinkHard]

Sorry, I will never believe that a 10 year old who had issues putting thoughts on paper in school would write a 2.5 page ransom note with the sentence structure, linguistic uses, grammar, punctuation, syntax, words and phrases with which we are all too familiar, leave no fingerprints and then return the pad and pen back to where he got them.

Authorities, exhausting, countermeasures, tactics, monitor, attache', provoke, proper burial, adequate, behead, etc., particularly, withdraw, account, law enforcement, and hence are just some of the words that I do not think a 10 year old would choose. The word choice would be more like 'get the money from your bank', 'we are watching', 'don't make us mad', 'we will cut her head off', 'don't tell police', 'it will be tiring', 'take a big enough bag'. Let's not forget the editorial carrot (is that how it is spelled? lol) or the decision to not use 'delivery' twice in the same sentence or the acronym.

But first and foremost is Cina Wong, the only handwriting expert I have seen interviewed who said she found 200 similarities between the RN and Pasty's samples in that 380 word letter. To me it is a stunning number of matches. No one else even came close.

On DP BR said he had never been to a funeral before, do you really think 'proper burial" would be in his life experiences or vocabulary?

Did your 10 year old have a school homework assignment to write a 380 word essay? Was that a pleasant experience for you? LOL

IMHO, using my own eyes, the RN screams that PR wrote it.

Very smart children often struggle with school work simply because whatever is being asked of them isn't something they are particularly interested in. Yes it's torture sometimes getting kids through school work.......

But the same kid when working on a project of their interest and choosing can move mountains.

There actually the most frustrating because you see the capability but it is selectively applied.

So yes, if Burke planned out this fantasy I can see him mimicking an adult in that letter...but if he did he had been thinking about things he'd say in it before hand.

I honestly do not think the penmanship or style is very sophisticated.

And just because a child has never been to a funeral certainly doesn't mean they've never heard the term "proper burial"

 

[ThinkHard]

He = Burke

Yes I know that. My question was directed at another poster regarding what they had proposed. I was saying why would he say that if he was trying to make the crime looked staged.

 

[johnjay]

Why would JR say "he didn't mean to kill her" and "he covered her in a blanket" if he had staged the whole thing to get a reaction out of Patsy?

Why would he say: "he didn't mean to kill her"? What kind of a crazy thing is that to say when you find your daughter murdered by a small foreign faction?

 

[HarmonyE.]

Why would he say: "he didn't mean to kill her"? What kind of a crazy thing is that to say when you find your daughter murdered by a small foreign faction?

Or how about "We aren't angry" about the murder.

Not angry? WTF?

 

[Sparko96]

Burke was bright enough he could have written the note long before the event. Wonder if they checked his handwriting carefully? It seems far-fetched, but never underestimate the ability of a prodigy--he may have thought this through from the lure of pineapple to the end. Would make some sense of the weird discontinuities. I am firmly BDI. But how much was his alone? Here we must wear the fez of conjecture.


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[johnjay]

Burke was bright enough he could have written the note long before the event. Wonder if they checked his handwriting carefully? It seems far-fetched, but never underestimate the ability of a prodigy--he may have thought this through from the lure of pineapple to the end. Would make some sense of the weird discontinuities. I am firmly BDI. But how much was his alone? Here we must wear the fez of conjecture.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Prodigy? Burke may be bright, in a very limited dimension, but prodigy? Buke is the guy who struggled on Dr. Phil trying to figure out how you poke someone with train tracks.

 

[mrseeker]

I have never been a BDI, but since his interviews I had to reconsider. I am most disturbed at his lack of curiosity that morning. Lying in bed, pretending to be asleep as his mother runs through house frantically. It is almost as someone in here suggested, a guilty conscience putting distance between himself and the act. But does that mean the parents never told him they knew? Did they just find the body and go about staging letting BR think he got away with it? He was not given instructions of what to do and say as part of their coverup? If all 3 are part of the coverup they did not have it all planned very well. It fits so much neater if PR did it all and JR and BR were just along for the ride. Did anyone early on ask BR did you hit your sister or do you ever hit your sister? I never heard that but I have only seen clips of his interviews with police and the counselor back then. I am not sure a denial now means anything.

 

[wannagonorth]

I have never been a BDI, but since his interviews I had to reconsider. I am most disturbed at his lack of curiosity that morning. Lying in bed, pretending to be asleep as his mother runs through house frantically. It is almost as someone in here suggested, a guilty conscience putting distance between himself and the act. But does that mean the parents never told him they knew? Did they just find the body and go about staging letting BR think he got away with it? He was not given instructions of what to do and say as part of their coverup? If all 3 are part of the coverup they did not have it all planned very well. It fits so much neater if PR did it all and JR and BR were just along for the ride. Did anyone early on ask BR did you hit your sister or do you ever hit your sister? I never heard that but I have only seen clips of his interviews with police and the counselor back then. I am not sure a denial now means anything.

IIRC, Dr. Phil asked Burke if he had hit JonBenet and brought up the incident with the golf club, which Burke insisted was an accident. The lack of curiosity makes sense if you assume he knew and the parents were trying to keep him from being questioned by the neighbors or police.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Some thoughts...

Things started to make sense after seeing BR's interviews. Thanks to CBS and the R 's lawyer.

1-BR's acting sleeping was true and that was because he was terrified for what he had done and was afraid from the parents.. He knew pretty well that the parents would get mad at him and he just imitated asleep . My guess he stayed in bed until P awoke at abt 05:00 - 05:30 . I'm not seeing guilt concsiousness in Burke waking up the parents himself.

2-BR's hearing Mom putting on the lights on and off , checking the rooms was true.
Means she had no idea at the time and was really looking for JB.

3-Mom got psycho was not when she was looking for JB but when she discovered what happened to JB and that B was responsible. (Anger towards him)

4-PR and JR was sleeping when the head bash occurred imo. Before the cover up they probably might have asked BR if the neighbors could have heard anything and B might have given a clue of a scream and hence PR sobbing for how she didn't hear her baby.

5-PR wearing the same clothes was because they had very limited time to call 911 and she hurriedly put on the combined outfit from the previous night. (She had headed downstairs with her sleepovers when she woke up imo)

6-P's fibers on JB hugging her and leaning over her probably.

7-P wrote the RN .Seems like exactly her handwriting .. I don't think BR could have written that with that handwriting style and linguistic. Meanwhile JR was coaching BR to remain silent until getting out of the house, what to tell /not to tell and their concocted version of events.
Thus JR did not have much time to interfere and change the content of the RN and that's why we have a R letter full of BS.

8-P had made a big deal about JA's bedroom- guest bedroom and packing for two trips stuff . She tried to place herself on that floor so as to imply that she was there until the kids slept. Not true.

9- Head bash knocked her out and about an hour later he was curious and went downstairs to check her , she was still alive and he did the garrote .
Is it possible he put the Hİ-tec shoes in his second trip downstairs to take the bloody items on the scene out of the house and hide in the backyard? Why wearing boots if not going outside ?

10-B's going downstairs after the parents were asleep with the flashlight could be the first or second trip to the basement.

 

[ThinkHard]

Prodigy? Burke may be bright, in a very limited dimension, but prodigy? Buke is the guy who struggled on Dr. Phil trying to figure out how you poke someone with train tracks.

There are many many many different kinds of intelligence. Someone can be highly intelligent and socially awkward. Someone can be highly intelligent yet not get social cues simply because they don't think the same way. Intelligence and the ability to express yourself do not always go hand in hand. Judging someone's intelligence based on how they socialize would be a huge fallacy.

Not to mention intelligent people still know how to play dumb when it serves them better to do so.

One needs to acquire information via senses, process that information, store that information, recall that information, use fluid reasoning to put it all together, and then express that information....a problem in the ability to express it, doesn't always mean a problem in the ability to put it all together, or having an insanely strong memory, or create things in their mind.

They smartest kids I have ever worked with, have also been the most difficult. They think too much, they pick up on everything, they know they aren't like other kids, and they feel alienated, so they are always stressed and easy to anger. Smart kids need to be coach on healthy coping strategies from an early age, or anxiety sets in quickly...usually around 3 in my experience.

When we see people who we consider intelligent: the good grades, good job, sharp, engaging, carries themselves well etc.....these are the people who show above average intelligence consistently in all these areas, they are the "complete package"

With kids who are highly intelligent and often end up troubled, (though certainly many many are highly successful), what you see is splintering skills. They will have areas of learning and intelligence where they show well above average to gifted, and other areas where they fall well below average. This dichotomy leads to much misunderstanding and frustration for parents and teachers, but most of all the child.

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

If BDI, I wonder what was the breaking point for him that he decided to bash her over the head or in some theories to preplan the entire murder?

Here are a few examples of children who murder:

"Robert Thompson and Jon Venables: Robert Thompson and Jon Venables were both 10 years old when they abducted and killed two-year-old James Bulger in 1993. The young boys snatched the toddler from a shopping mall while his mother was inside a store, and took him on a 2.5-mile walk across Liverpool. The boys were seen walking by approximately 38 people, but many assumed he was their younger brother. Venables and Thompson took Bulger to a railway line where they tortured and brutally attacked the toddler. Bulger suffered multiple skull fractures from blows to the head, and was sexually abused by the two older boys. After the beatings, they left Bulger’s lifeless body across the railway tracks so that his body would be cut in half. Police were able to pin Venables and Thompson because of video images that captured Bulger’s abduction from the mall. DNA testing matched the blood found on the boys’ shoes to Bulger. Thompson and Venables were arrested and controversially tried and convicted in an adult court. They were both found guilty of murder and sentenced to custody until the age of 18."

"Mary Bell: In 1968, 11-year-old Mary Bell was convicted of killing two young boys, 4-year-old Martin Brown and 3-year-old Brian Howe. Bell strangled Martin Brown and left his lifeless body in an abandoned house in Newcastle, England. Two weeks later, she and her 13-year-old friend Norma Bell (no relation) strangled Brian Howe, carved the letter M into his stomach with scissors and disposed of his body on waste ground. Howe’s hair had been cut and his genitals were mutilated. The girls were tried and convicted of manslaughter, but Norma was acquitted. Bell received life in detention, but only served 12 years before she was released and given lifelong anonymity."

"8-Year-Old Boy Kills Father and Friend: In 2008, an 8-year-old boy, whose name was not released, was arrested and charged with shooting and killing his father and his father’s friend in their St. Johns, Arizona home. The young boy confessed to shooting both men with a .22 caliber rifle, but police felt something bigger caused the boy to commit such a premeditated murder. The boy also kept a tally of spankings he received from his father, but there was not enough evidence to support the possibility of abuse. He was originally charged with two counts of first-degree murder, but the charges for his father’s death were dropped by his plea deal. Two years later, the 10-year-old was sentenced to a residential treatment facility and intensive probation until 18 years of age."

"9-Year-Old Girl Kills Playmate: In 2005, a 9-year-old girl, whose name wasn’t released, was responsible for stabbing 11-year-old Queen Washington during a fight over a ball. They were playing at the 9-year-old’s home in Brooklyn during a Memorial Day barbeque, and when her mother stepped out of the house, the fight ensued. When the mother returned, the 9-year-old had stabbed Washington in the chest with a steak knife. She collapsed in the hallway and was pronounced dead at the hospital. The killer is likely the youngest person in New York City to commit a murder. The girl was charged with manslaughter and the case will go to family court because she is younger than 14."

Source link: http://www.criminaljusticedegreesguide.com/features/10-youngest-murderers-in-history.html

 

[johnjay]

I have never been a BDI, but since his interviews I had to reconsider. I am most disturbed at his lack of curiosity that morning. Lying in bed, pretending to be asleep as his mother runs through house frantically. It is almost as someone in here suggested, a guilty conscience putting distance between himself and the act. But does that mean the parents never told him they knew? Did they just find the body and go about staging letting BR think he got away with it? He was not given instructions of what to do and say as part of their coverup? If all 3 are part of the coverup they did not have it all planned very well. It fits so much neater if PR did it all and JR and BR were just along for the ride. Did anyone early on ask BR did you hit your sister or do you ever hit your sister? I never heard that but I have only seen clips of his interviews with police and the counselor back then. I am not sure a denial now means anything.

Burke didn't stay in bed that morning. His voice is on the 911 call, he went downstairs. He went back to his room and played like he was still asleep, even though he was normally an early riser, so he wouldn't have to answer questions. Then, when the opportunity came, they got him out of the house.

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

Burke didn't stay in bed that morning. His voice is on the 911 call, he went downstairs. He went back to his room and played like he was still asleep, even though he was normally an early riser, so he wouldn't have to answer questions. Then, when the opportunity came, they got him out of the house.

Yeah I agree with you, I don't know who would sleep through their mother going 'psycho' in the house and police officers coming in with flashlights. I mean come on...he was definitely not asleep.

 

[johnjay]

There are many many many different kinds of intelligence. Someone can be highly intelligent and socially awkward. Someone can be highly intelligent yet not get social cues simply because they don't think the same way. Intelligence and the ability to express yourself do not always go hand in hand. Judging someone's intelligence based on how they socialize would be a huge fallacy.

Not to mention intelligent people still know how to play dumb when it serves them better to do so.

One needs to acquire information via senses, process that information, store that information, recall that information, use fluid reasoning to put it all together, and then express that information....a problem in the ability to express it, doesn't always mean a problem in the ability to put it all together, or having an insanely strong memory, or create things in their mind.

They smartest kids I have ever worked with, have also been the most difficult. They think too much, they pick up on everything, they know they aren't like other kids, and they feel alienated, so they are always stressed and easy to anger. Smart kids need to be coach on healthy coping strategies from an early age, or anxiety sets in quickly...usually around 3 in my experience.

When we see people who we consider intelligent: the good grades, good job, sharp, engaging, carries themselves well etc.....these are the people who show above average intelligence consistently in all these areas, they are the "complete package"

With kids who are highly intelligent and often end up troubled, (though certainly many many are highly successful), what you see is splintering skills. They will have areas of learning and intelligence where they show well above average to gifted, and other areas where they fall well below average. This dichotomy leads to much misunderstanding and frustration for parents and teachers, but most of all the child.

I've seen no evidence that Burke is any more than a bright guy, albeit in a very limited way. One does not need to be a genius to get a degree in computer science and be a software engineer. Bright does not mean prodigy. Do you know more about Burke than what we saw on Dr. Phil? If anything, I think "bright" might be too generous given what he said on that show.

 

[johnjay]

Yeah I agree with you, I don't know who would sleep through their mother going 'psycho' in the house and police officers coming in with flashlights. I mean come on...he was definitely not asleep.

Who would go on national TV and describe their mother who was frantically looking for her missing daughter as: "going psycho"? A person with some very serious mental issues, that's who.

 

[johnjay]

If BDI, I wonder what was the breaking point for him that he decided to bash her over the head or in some theories to preplan the entire murder?

Here are a few examples of children who murder:

"Robert Thompson and Jon Venables: Robert Thompson and Jon Venables were both 10 years old when they abducted and killed two-year-old James Bulger in 1993. The young boys snatched the toddler from a shopping mall while his mother was inside a store, and took him on a 2.5-mile walk across Liverpool. The boys were seen walking by approximately 38 people, but many assumed he was their younger brother. Venables and Thompson took Bulger to a railway line where they tortured and brutally attacked the toddler. Bulger suffered multiple skull fractures from blows to the head, and was sexually abused by the two older boys. After the beatings, they left Bulger’s lifeless body across the railway tracks so that his body would be cut in half. Police were able to pin Venables and Thompson because of video images that captured Bulger’s abduction from the mall. DNA testing matched the blood found on the boys’ shoes to Bulger. Thompson and Venables were arrested and controversially tried and convicted in an adult court. They were both found guilty of murder and sentenced to custody until the age of 18."

"Mary Bell: In 1968, 11-year-old Mary Bell was convicted of killing two young boys, 4-year-old Martin Brown and 3-year-old Brian Howe. Bell strangled Martin Brown and left his lifeless body in an abandoned house in Newcastle, England. Two weeks later, she and her 13-year-old friend Norma Bell (no relation) strangled Brian Howe, carved the letter M into his stomach with scissors and disposed of his body on waste ground. Howe’s hair had been cut and his genitals were mutilated. The girls were tried and convicted of manslaughter, but Norma was acquitted. Bell received life in detention, but only served 12 years before she was released and given lifelong anonymity."

"8-Year-Old Boy Kills Father and Friend: In 2008, an 8-year-old boy, whose name was not released, was arrested and charged with shooting and killing his father and his father’s friend in their St. Johns, Arizona home. The young boy confessed to shooting both men with a .22 caliber rifle, but police felt something bigger caused the boy to commit such a premeditated murder. The boy also kept a tally of spankings he received from his father, but there was not enough evidence to support the possibility of abuse. He was originally charged with two counts of first-degree murder, but the charges for his father’s death were dropped by his plea deal. Two years later, the 10-year-old was sentenced to a residential treatment facility and intensive probation until 18 years of age."

"9-Year-Old Girl Kills Playmate: In 2005, a 9-year-old girl, whose name wasn’t released, was responsible for stabbing 11-year-old Queen Washington during a fight over a ball. They were playing at the 9-year-old’s home in Brooklyn during a Memorial Day barbeque, and when her mother stepped out of the house, the fight ensued. When the mother returned, the 9-year-old had stabbed Washington in the chest with a steak knife. She collapsed in the hallway and was pronounced dead at the hospital. The killer is likely the youngest person in New York City to commit a murder. The girl was charged with manslaughter and the case will go to family court because she is younger than 14."

Source link: http://www.criminaljusticedegreesguide.com/features/10-youngest-murderers-in-history.html

James Kolar seems to hint about some issue over Christmas presents.

 

[ThinkHard]

I've seen no evidence that Burke is any more than a bright guy, albeit in a very limited way. One does not need to be a genius to get a degree in computer science and be a software engineer. Bright does not mean prodigy. Do you know more about Burke than what we saw on Dr. Phil? If anything, I think "bright" might be too generous given what he said on that show.

For one I never called him a prodigy. That is something different anyway. It is when someone can acquire new skills or knowledge at a rapid pace, at a young age. Often times plateauing and being relatively on par with peers later on in life.

And secondly all I am pointing out is that from what I can see of Burke btw dr Phil and his childhood interviews it is quite clear in my opinion that something is very off about him. When we add hearing about other things in his childhood, it paints a very troubled kid. In my experience troubled kids with awkward social skills, tend to be highly intelligent. So I would not be surprised if Burke was also highly intelligent based on what I've seen and learned.

I think he's was smart in a way that gave him an above average ability to plan, execute, and stage this, even if some may not agree.

Specifically I think he has high fluid reasoning skills....as is evident of the rapid connections his brain was making when he saw that pineapple and gasped "oh". I think he could of thought of all those aspects of staging a crime scene like putting pieces of a puzzle together in his head.

 

[ThinkHard]

Who would go on national TV and describe their mother who was frantically looking for her missing daughter as: "going psycho"? A person with some very serious mental issues, that's who.

I don't read that much into it, I think it's just a phrase.

 

[johnjay]

For one I never called him a prodigy. That is something different anyway. It is when someone can acquire new skills or knowledge at a rapid pace, at a young age. Often times plateauing and being relatively on par with peers later on in life.

And secondly all I am pointing out is that from what I can see of Burke btw dr Phil and his childhood interviews it is quite clear in my opinion that something is very off about him. When we add hearing about other things in his childhood, it paints a very troubled kid. In my experience troubled kids with awkward social skills, tend to be highly intelligent. So I would not be surprised if Burke was also highly intelligent based on what I've seen and learned.

I think he's was smart in a way that gave him an above average ability to plan, execute, and stage this, even if some may not agree.

Specifically I think he has high fluid reasoning skills....as is evident of the rapid connections his brain was making when he saw that pineapple and gasped "oh".

How bright do you have to be to know when you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar.

 

[johnjay]

I don't read that much into it, I think it's just a phrase.

Yep, one that I can't imagine ever using to describe my mother if she was dealing with a crisis situation.