Was Burke Involved? # 4

[madeleine]

BBM, Well that is what it is, if BR was responsible for at least part of the crime and the law in CO. being what it was at the time then BR can never be held accountable because of that law.
As far as public shaming that is really all that is left, but i think the R's are well aware of public opinion and people that believe they were involved. And that is not unusual because family members are always the first people to come under suspicion and scrutiny when a child goes missing and then sometimes is found to have been murdered. Some are never found sadly.
And now that PR is gone there are only two people left that really know what happened on that fateful night.

Not necessarily. IIRC j.Fitzgerald said he is pretty sure that in 20 years one of them must have said something to someone. Maybe they told a priest or the family doctor. Sadly they won't ever betray that trust. But maybe they told a friend who will open his mouth one day, one can hope. I dont think this will be solved without a confession though. One that also fits the facts.

 

[RL2]

Beautifully said, maddy. I hate myself for even thinking it, but "relief" is a word that comes to mind. They were almost relieved she was dead.

I completely agree, SuperDave! Our opinions are very, very close.. JR did say "she was a handful!" On LKL.
He also called her a "firecracker" in other interviews.

I've never once saw PR as a genuine person. I am not sure how anyone can look at her television interviews and conclude that she was caring. I could TOTALLY believe that she caused all of those small bruises in pageant pictures of JBR's arms by pinching and grasping her!

Their actions do point to actually liking BR a lot better, IMO... PR just wasn't able to plaster makeup on him and re-live her own selfish glory through him... JBR was just a pawn.

 

[RL2]

Oh, and when BR at age 11 says mom was going all "psycho"...I think that is something that she did often.

 

[PositiveLight]

Oh, and when BR at age 11 says mom was going all "psycho"...I think that is something that she did often.

I think BR got a thrill out of making his mom go psycho. I think he enjoyed watching her suffer when JBR died. I can't forget that creepy smile. Not all murderers continue to murder. I think BR felt JBR stole his parents affection and he was jealous and full of anger. I think Christmas morning he didn't get what he wanted and brewed all day long. I think the White's noticed it too. O think they knew BR had problems. I think FW and PW have many of the answers.
Something I found interesting while looking up statutes of limitations-
"As such, the prosecutorial “clock” on most statutes of limitations will only run while the alleged perpetrator remains visible and in the state where the crime occurred. If the suspect is out of state or otherwise in hiding, the statutory clock will pause, and will resume running when and if the criminal reenters the state. This is to prevent criminals avoiding the consequences for serious crimes by simply running, hiding, and waiting out the authorities

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/colorado-law/colorado-criminal-statute-of-limitations-laws.html

 

[PositiveLight]

I think BR got a thrill out of making his mom go psycho. I think he enjoyed watching her suffer when JBR died. I can't forget that creepy smile. Not all murderers continue to murder. I think BR felt JBR stole his parents affection and he was jealous and full of anger. I think Christmas morning he didn't get what he wanted and brewed all day long. I think the White's noticed it too. O think they knew BR had problems. I think FW and PW have many of the answers.
Something I found interesting while looking up statutes of limitations-
"As such, the prosecutorial “clock” on most statutes of limitations will only run while the alleged perpetrator remains visible and in the state where the crime occurred. If the suspect is out of state or otherwise in hiding, the statutory clock will pause, and will resume running when and if the criminal reenters the state. This is to prevent criminals avoiding the consequences for serious crimes by simply running, hiding, and waiting out the authorities

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/colorado-law/colorado-criminal-statute-of-limitations-laws.html

So just MAYBE JR isn't out of the woods yet. We can hope!

 

[Ambitioned]

BBM. Maybe I'm just weird that way, but I've tended to see Patsy as the kind of person who's sweetness and light above but a simmering cauldron underneath. When you live with people like are in my family, you get pretty good at recognizing the signs. But then, maybe I'm thinking of Joan Crawford too much. (Boy, what a memoir JB would have written if she'd lived!)

She'd have gone on Nancy Grace and talked about these over the top tot moms :scared:

 

[Ambitioned]

I've been BDI since day one. My family was shocked at first that I thought a 9 yr old could commit this crime. They all thought the parents did it. Move ahead 20 yrs and they have all moved to BDI.

Years ago I was PDI. I couldn't see selfish Patsy covering up for anybody but herself but I changed my mind. She'd cover for Burke especially since he was her remaining child.

I'm always stunned when people say a 9 yr old couldn't kill. I bring up Venables, Mary Bell, etc. Burke was the apple of mommy's eye until JB came along. We don't know how long jealousy and resentment has been simmering, but it's like a bomb ready to go off anytime.

 

[Ambitioned]

I think BR got a thrill out of making his mom go psycho. I think he enjoyed watching her suffer when JBR died. I can't forget that creepy smile.

Especially at his sister's funeral. The contrast between everyone weeping and him smiling is jarring. He seems to get it from his mom.

 

[carolinea]

Could Burke possibly be charged with something else? Obstruction of justice or something like that? Though he committed the crime before 10, he was interviewed several times after he was old enough to be prosecuted, and if he did indeed do it (which I believe), then he'd be guilty of holding back evidence/lying to the police, right?

 

[TexMex]

Could Burke possibly be charged with something else? Obstruction of justice or something like that? Though he committed the crime before 10, he was interviewed several times after he was old enough to be prosecuted, and if he did indeed do it (which I believe), then he'd be guilty of holding back evidence/lying to the police, right?

Burke could fly to Boulder, take an Uber to the police station, walk up to the front door and urinate on it while screaming "I killed my sister JonBenet" and the most that could happen to him is a citation for urinating in public.

 

[TexMex]

all three ready to move on just a few days after the murder. own words. she is better now in heaven. wtf

Makes sense. To them this was a family matter. They dealt with it as they saw fit (protecting Burke). So everyone should just accept it. Enough with the questions. JMO

 

[Duchess518]

Burke could fly to Boulder, take an Uber to the police station, walk up to the front door and urinate on it while screaming "I killed my sister JonBenet" and the most that could happen to him is a citation for urinating in public.

True. But in the court of public opinion? I hate to say it I really feel so bad saying this but if it comes out that he did it (confession it evidence) I really think someone of the public would take matters into thier own hands if you know what I mean. I don't think he's safe now! With the CBS special & most people are on the side of BDI.

 

[madeleine]

Makes sense. To them this was a family matter. They dealt with it as they saw fit (protecting Burke). So everyone should just accept it. Enough with the questions. JMO

But no one forced them to do the CNN interview. It was them stirring the pot. If it was about protecting BR why didn't PR for ex take the blame right before dying. I did it all, my family had no clue. ST would have backed her up . People were mostly PDI back then anyway.

 

[TexMex]

But no one forced them to do the CNN interview. It was them stirring the pot. If it was about protecting BR why didn't PR for ex take the blame right before dying. I did it all, my family had no clue. ST would have backed her up . People were mostly PDI back then anyway.

The story will remain the story. Intruder. Period. They weren't just protecting Burke from incarceration IMO, they were also protecting his ability to "move on" without being forever seen as a mentally deranged killer. They were also protecting the family image.

The CNN was their mistaken attempt to quiet the media storm. You want to hear from us? Everyone is telling us we must give a statement? Ok, we will speak to Larry King. CNN is seen worldwide. Y'all happy now? Move along please. Nothing to see here except grieving victims. Now give us some privacy.
JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Both Patsy and John received the same GJ idictments - they couldn't both have known the person being assisted had committed the crime of murder unless you believe they both murdered JonBenet - and in that case they would have both been charged with murder. So no, the indictments make it perfectly clear who the GJ thought was the murderer, who covered it up, and who didn't protect JonBenet from a dangerous person.

I can think of a scenario where the GJ had enough evidence to show that Patsy and John jointly covered up the murder, with the GJ not knowing which one had actually committed it.

So for example -

JonBenet had been sexually assaulted priorly, and both parents knew this or one knew and was forced to tell the other because of what happened.
That night JonBenet suffered a head trauma (she fell, she was pushed, she was hit by Patsy, John or Burke) with or without a possible neck abrasion.
John and Patsy assessed the situation and thought she was dead or dying or too severely brain damaged to live without long term life support. If she was taken to ER she would be examined as a possible victim of a physical assault, and the prior sexual assault/abuse may come to light.
John and Patsy together decided to make this look like a strangulation by an intruder, hoping that the head wound may be missed. It wasn't bleeding, there was no visible lump or swelling, and they arranged her hair in a ponytail to sweep over the top of the wound area.
One of them also thought of staging a sexual assault because they thought it might cover prior sexual violation. The other one didn't agree with that aspect of the staging because if they were ever linked to the murder, what if one of them broke down and confessed or a child said something that gave the game away, they would also be linked to knowledge of and/or participation in prior sexual assault, so they cleaned up and tried to remove evidence of that.
The GJ don't know who did which aspect, but they know that both of them do know at least, even if they didn't do it. Patsy knew because she wrote the ransom novel, John knew because they don't believe he read that ransom novel and was taken in by it, and they believe he knew where the body was, and then tried to get the hell out on the first plane he could arrange and lawyered up.

So in this scenario, the GJ knew both parents were involved in the cover up but they didn't know which one did the killing act. Maybe the GJ couldn't be certain whether JonBenet died exactly as a result of the head blow or the strangulation, or which came first, or if JonBenet might have survived on life support after the head blow then whoever did the strangulation killed her.

There isn't enough evidence to say who killed (murder indictment) but there is enough evidence to show both knew who committed which aspect, and acted afterwards to destroy evidence and hamper the investigation.

I don't know, there are probably holes in my theory, but I don't think it can be said that the only interpretation of the indictment is that Burke is the only possibility. The lawyer on CBS didn't say it was 100% clear, she said both parents could be indicted with assisting each other but it was her opinion that it related to a third person.

 

[YouWho]

This is how she seems to me, too. She was a performer, and she knew how to hit the "right" notes to seem sweet and religious. The real Patsy? Who can say.

I always go back to the way she cried when talking about the press being mean to her and then a few minutes later talked about JBR's death with dry eyes and without being upset.

I often think of her taking over the power in her interrogation where she says,"You're on the wrong path, buddy" and She didn't do it, John Ramsey didn't do it, and she has no idea who DID do it! She really let her mask slip there. But she had to take some power back there, and she did IMO.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

Makes sense. To them this was a family matter. They dealt with it as they saw fit (protecting Burke). So everyone should just accept it. Enough with the questions. JMO

ITA, It also reminds me of the Anthonys. They took the attitude of being offended and how dare the public care about our missing child, she's OURS, not yours. Like you said, JonBenet was gone so they just wanted everyone to shut up about it, which is exactly the opposite of how most parents of a murdered child by a stranger would feel.

 

[madeleine]

Are there any transcripts of the dr. phil show anywhere? Can't believe he claims mom bursts into his room looking for jb and they don't say a word to each other. Then he says he didnt go down because he wanted to avoid conflict. What kind of conflict? Would love to read the transcripts cause when watching the show I automatically pay more attention to behavior than words. But at a closer look most of his statements are bs.

 

[UKGuy]

Are there any transcripts of the dr. phil show anywhere? Can't believe he claims mom bursts into his room looking for jb and they don't say a word to each other. Then he says he didnt go down because he wanted to avoid conflict. What kind of conflict? Would love to read the transcripts cause when watching the show I automatically pay more attention to behavior than words. But at a closer look most of his statements are bs.

madeleine,
In the videotaped interviews BR says he just stayed in his room, listening to his mom going psycho. Like its obvious something serious is happening and BR is flying out on vacation, yet he just wants to hide away in his bedroom?

.

 

[madeleine]

madeleine,
In the videotaped interviews BR says he just stayed in his room, listening to his mom going psycho. Like its obvious something serious is happening and BR is flying out on vacation, yet he just wants to hide away in his bedroom?

.

maybe dad and mom were fighting?