Was Burke involved?

[midwest mama]

Hmm... I couldn't find any other references to the log-grabber or the story of NE faking the photo. Oh, well.

On another note... While looking at the picture (around the paint cans), I see for the first time the cigar box that belonged to JR.
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I'll try to hunt down the reference I read about the fake photo. I'm trying to keep notes written as I go, but find even that task to be daunting in absorbing all the info out there about this case. Another poster sent me a message referring to a post that KK did on FFJ where she comments about the photo being "staged" by NE, but I am fairly sure the comment I made came from a verifiable source, or I might have dismissed the comment in my own mind. (The comment I saw also said the plaid blanket in the photo was a plant by NE)

NE did a great job of tending to details. I circled the cigar box reference in Kolar's book, pg 86 on my first read through the book, because I wanted to find more info about it. After snooping around, this is the most frequent type of reference I found - from ACR website:
gsquared (16 posts)
18-Sep-02, 10:26 AM (CST)

9. "RE: Why-nut"
A poster on yonder forum posted today with she did tell Wilton there was a cigar box on the room but she did not tell him the contents. In today's post, she says the contents were cuban cigars. I assume those cigars were John's and he stored them in that room because it was cool and moist, a humidor of sorts. And that proves John probably went to the room with some regularity. That is probably the only significance that the box has.

Maybe FW thought he'd grab himself a smoke (would he have also known the box had cubans in it because he and JR had gone into the WC at some other time to sit and chat over a smoke?) and that is why he would have felt the need to go back down to the basement to 'take another look around the Wine Cellar' after JB had been brought up? No wonder there was interest in him having involvement - and I suppose there would have been, because the FBI and others have thought from the git-go there were "two hands" involved in JB's murder.

I used to think this case was like a 500 piece jigsaw puzzle of a 'Sky with One Little Bird' soaring in it. Oops - let's bump that up to 1000. Will any of us ever have enough time to work this one out? :banghead:

 

[otg]

I'll try to hunt down the reference I read about the fake photo. I'm trying to keep notes written as I go, but find even that task to be daunting in absorbing all the info out there about this case. Another poster sent me a message referring to a post that KK did on FFJ where she comments about the photo being "staged" by NE, but I am fairly sure the comment I made came from a verifiable source, or I might have dismissed the comment in my own mind. (The comment I saw also said the plaid blanket in the photo was a plant by NE)

NE did a great job of tending to details. I circled the cigar box reference in Kolar's book, pg 86 on my first read through the book, because I wanted to find more info about it.
(snipped)

I never paid any attention to the tabs until during the OJ trial one of them found a picture of him in those "ugly-*advertiser censored* shoes" (Bruno Maglio) that he denied ever having. Until then, I thought just about everything they reported was fabricated when I would see screaming headlines like, "JFK Still Alive!", or, "Elvis Found!". :what: Really?

But back in '97 on, when I started following this, the tabs were the ones coming out with information that we know now was at least based on some element of truth because they were willing to bribe, steal, or do whatever it takes to be the first one with inside information. Now... If they know that BPD is considering that a bat, a golf club, or a fireplace tool was the weapon used, would they fake a picture to "illustrate" it in an existing photo? (Yes, of course they would.) Did they that in this particular incident? (Who knows -- but does it matter?) The fact is that something caused the depressed fracture in JonBenet's skull, and we're all (including BPD) trying to figure out what it was. Could it have been a fireplace tool? I think so, and I believe it is more likely to be that than a flashlight.

If I knew what the skull fragments that were broken looked like, I'd have a better idea about the shape of the object that caused the depression. Instead, all we have to go by are the several autopsy photos that were "obtained" and leaked by one of the tabs.:dance:
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[otg]

otg,
Ole Werner is very upset you trashed his theory, hes gonna get LW to phone you for defamation of his professional character, LOL!

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I didn't defame his professional character -- he did when he posed for this ridiculous photo, and then when he testified at the Anthony trial! He's on a list I have along with the name of John Douglas.
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[otg]

I assumed if the flashlight was the murder weapon the impact would've been from the handle where the weight is (3 to 6 batteries depending on the model).

If it were used as you suggest, anne11, it would be more likely to cause the shape of the depressed fracture that is actually there. That's what doesn't make sense to me... Why would Spitz be demonstrating something that disproves his theory at face value?

The one found in the Ramsey home was a 3-cell:
http://www.maglite.com/productline.asp
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[OpenMind4U]

snip

A poster on yonder forum posted today with she did tell Wilton there was a cigar box on the room but she did not tell him the contents. In today's post, she says the contents were cuban cigars. I assume those cigars were John's and he stored them in that room because it was cool and moist, a humidor of sorts. And that proves John probably went to the room with some regularity. That is probably the only significance that the box has.[/COLOR] snip

I used to think this case was like a 500 piece jigsaw puzzle of a 'Sky with One Little Bird' soaring in it. Oops - let's bump that up to 1000. Will any of us ever have enough time to work this one out? :banghead:

According to Kolar, PR often smoked in basement. (some cancer patient start smoking...different tobacco....so, we can 'assume' that both Ramsey smoke cigars.......

Regarding 1000 piece of puzzle, yes, I have time to work them out - it took me just one trip to the attic storage....:woohoo:

 

[UKGuy]

I didn't defame his professional character -- he did when he posed for this ridiculous photo, and then when he testified at the Anthony trial! He's on a list I have along with the name of John Douglas.
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otg,

John Douglas

This the same guy who the R's consulted as well as the DA? He consulted over WACO and the West Memphis 3 too.

He is a clever guy he must have known the dna on JonBenet's underwear meant zero. Yet he gave the R's a pass.





.

 

[UKGuy]

According to Kolar, PR often smoked in basement. (some cancer patient start smoking...different tobacco....so, we can 'assume' that both Ramsey smoke cigars.......

Regarding 1000 piece of puzzle, yes, I have time to work them out - it took me just one trip to the attic storage....:woohoo:

OpenMind4U,
WOW Patsy smoking ceegarz, now thats some image. In Spitting Image, Thatcher was portrayed bossing everyone about whilst smoking a cigar, that included Regan, who was always looking for something, very satirical!


.

 

[OneLove]

According to Kolar, PR often smoked in basement. (some cancer patient start smoking...different tobacco....so, we can 'assume' that both Ramsey smoke cigars.......

Regarding 1000 piece of puzzle, yes, I have time to work them out - it took me just one trip to the attic storage....:woohoo:

Just wondering what the laws of Colorado are concerning medical marijuana. I just visited family in Oregon where it is legal, regulated, and therefore not hidden in the basement, so to speak.

If not legal in Colorado, OR even if legal and PR or JR did not want to go the legal route (stigma?), then who would most likely be in a position to supply PR? Could that be a primary reason for the protective stance with a particular younger family member when it "seemed" so unnecessary?

I'm not at all convinced that PR was smoking, and even if so, that influence would not seem to dispose someone to be MORE violent, probably more passive instead. But it's an angle worth exploring.

 

[Bonnette]

Just wondering what the laws of Colorado are concerning medical marijuana.

Medical marijuana became legal in Colorado in 2006.

 

[otg]

otg,

This the same guy who the R's consulted as well as the DA? He consulted over WACO and the West Memphis 3 too.

He is a clever guy he must have known the dna on JonBenet's underwear meant zero. Yet he gave the R's a pass.

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Don't even get me started on Douglas, UKG! I read all his books and really thought highly of him, until he went private and sold his services. Yes, he was duped from the start. But he should have been smart enough to know better. His peers agreed -- no one could understand how he could do that. From what I have since heard, they avoid him now like the plague. He is literally personna non grata now at peer events.
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[txsvicki]

Patsy couldn't even tell the truth and admit that she smoked yet kolar found out she smoked in the basement? From what i've read she claimed to have smoked once in 9th grade out of rebellion then some as a young working woman but then quit due to realizing she was being stupid.

 

[OpenMind4U]

Patsy couldn't even tell the truth and admit that she smoked yet kolar found out she smoked in the basement? From what i've read she claimed to have smoked once in 9th grade out of rebellion then some as a young working woman but then quit due to realizing she was being stupid.

Well, Ramsey's (as well as Anthony's) knows how to make this 'little misthruth'....which is in real world calls: LIES.

 

[rachaellouise]

I think Burke was involved and his parents were covering up. If you think about the upper middle class society the Ramseys were living in, appearances were everything. I doubt they'd want the shame of having your son locked away for murdering your daughter and it being public knowledge.

 

[azwriter]

I'm not an attorney, but I have played one on TV. Just kidding.

But, I hope we can have some of our legal eagles pop up here to comment on my post.

I can understand that Burke was at an age that by Colorado laws he could not be charged with murdering his sister. But what has puzzled me is all that surrounds his uncharable "accidential crime."

For instance, there was a Grand Jury session but no charges were brought. And, it seemed that anyone or any organization of the Fourth Estate who even dared to hint that Burke was the one who ended JonBenet's life found themselves on the suing end of the Ramsey's attorneys. And, these cases were settled out of court. Which meant there would be no public record of anything pertaining to Burke and the role he may have played>

Okay attorneys - does the law that prevents Burke from being charged contain parts that even the idea that he might have been the cause could not be talked about. Did part of the law tie the hands and gag the Boulder LE and the DA that nothing could be discussed about Burke. That everything, down to and including facts of his involvement was to be covered and not make public?

It just seems to me that anyone involved in LE backs away from anything to do with Burke. And that this part of the law that protects him allowed Patsy and John to go before the public and truthfully claim not to have murdered their daughter. But still allowed them (in an attempt to cover his guilt) to urge the public to help search for her killer as well as gave John and Patsy a clear path to point to others of their friends and employees as possibly be involved, mainly because they know it was their son and ultimately the people they named would not be charged.

Can I get a legal comment on this? How far does the secrecy go?

 

[OpenMind4U]

Need your help: Does anyone knows what Burke was waring at Christmas party at FW? Any pictures from this party, please!

 

[DeeDee249]

I'm not an attorney, but I have played one on TV. Just kidding.

But, I hope we can have some of our legal eagles pop up here to comment on my post.

I can understand that Burke was at an age that by Colorado laws he could not be charged with murdering his sister. But what has puzzled me is all that surrounds his uncharable "accidential crime."

For instance, there was a Grand Jury session but no charges were brought. And, it seemed that anyone or any organization of the Fourth Estate who even dared to hint that Burke was the one who ended JonBenet's life found themselves on the suing end of the Ramsey's attorneys. And, these cases were settled out of court. Which meant there would be no public record of anything pertaining to Burke and the role he may have played>

Okay attorneys - does the law that prevents Burke from being charged contain parts that even the idea that he might have been the cause could not be talked about. Did part of the law tie the hands and gag the Boulder LE and the DA that nothing could be discussed about Burke. That everything, down to and including facts of his involvement was to be covered and not make public?

It just seems to me that anyone involved in LE backs away from anything to do with Burke. And that this part of the law that protects him allowed Patsy and John to go before the public and truthfully claim not to have murdered their daughter. But still allowed them (in an attempt to cover his guilt) to urge the public to help search for her killer as well as gave John and Patsy a clear path to point to others of their friends and employees as possibly be involved, mainly because they know it was their son and ultimately the people they named would not be charged.

Can I get a legal comment on this? How far does the secrecy go?

I can't give you a legal comment, but I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. When watching the videos of the Rs saying they didn't kill their daughter, it is very obvious to me that they are hiding something. If BR did this, then, yes, they can say publicly that they did not kill JB, but they of course KNOW what happened and know who did kill her. I am wondering how all the "inconclusive" polygraph tests were impacted by this. Because technically they'd be telling the truth, but they do have knowledge of the crime, so that would have to make difference as far as the results when compared to someone who was innocent of ALL knowledge of the crime.
And I think the Colorado law prevents BR from even being mentioned in relation to the crime. It can't be talked about.
It took me a LONG time (years) to get to BDI, but now that I see it that way, it makes so many pieces of the puzzle fit. It answers a lot of questions - the GJ is just one puzzle that seemed to have no explanation because they gave NO explanation for their inaction. They just did NOTHING- let it fade away. BDI explains why.

 

[DeeDee249]

Need your help: Does anyone knows what Burke was waring at Christmas party at FW? Any pictures from this party, please!

We have no pictures of the White's party that are available to the public. LE has them, though. They know what he was wearing.
In some evidence lists that I have seen and in some reports, there are lines and names blacked out. I feel this is BR and it is very possible that there WAS some evidence linking him to the crime.

 

[OpenMind4U]

We have no pictures of the White's party that are available to the public. LE has them, though. They know what he was wearing.
In some evidence lists that I have seen and in some reports, there are lines and names blacked out. I feel this is BR and it is very possible that there WAS some evidence linking him to the crime.

Yes, DD. It's how I feel as well.

IMO, (no proof of course) that BR never changed his clothes. I was trying to propose some idea in regards JBR abrasion on her right side (kind of 'cheek' area). But without knowledge of what BR was waring this day - my idea is simply 'non-fonded'.

You see, I have 4 grandsons. The youngest ones are 5 and 8 years old respectfully. And you know how boys play's. Very rough, sometimes brutally rough. This weekend, I was watching them playing their usual rough games (wrestling, kicking) and saw the pretty ugly ROUND-form 'scratch', deep mark on the face of the younger, 5 year old. I asked: 'where is it come from?!'...and my 8-year old grandson said: 'O, don't worry, he's OK. It's just from my belt'....I look and somehow see clearly the possibility, especially with difference in hight between JBR and BR. Again, it's just PURE non-substantiated idea. I don't believe a word what Ramsey's are saying since they left presents at Steins (sp?) house. Their visit at least was confirmed by others. But from this moment on - anything and everything could be a LIE, including clothing, changes to pj and going to sleep....JMO

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

What did Burke get for Christmas that year, other than the Nintendo? I wonder if John gave Burke a set of golf clubs that Christmas morning? Just a thought that wandered through my mind.

 

[DeeDee249]

Yes, DD. It's how I feel as well.

IMO, (no proof of course) that BR never changed his clothes. I was trying to propose some idea in regards JBR abrasion on her right side (kind of 'cheek' area). But without knowledge of what BR was waring this day - my idea is simply 'non-fonded'.

You see, I have 4 grandsons. The youngest ones are 5 and 8 years old respectfully. And you know how boys play's. Very rough, sometimes brutally rough. This weekend, I was watching them playing their usual rough games (wrestling, kicking) and saw the pretty ugly ROUND-form 'scratch', deep mark on the face of the younger, 5 year old. I asked: 'where is it come from?!'...and my 8-year old grandson said: 'O, don't worry, he's OK. It's just from my belt'....I look and somehow see clearly the possibility, especially with difference in hight between JBR and BR. Again, it's just PURE non-substantiated idea. I don't believe a word what Ramsey's are saying since they left presents at Steins (sp?) house. Their visit at least was confirmed by others. But from this moment on - anything and everything could be a LIE, including clothing, changes to pj and going to sleep....JMO

I have grandsons too, 5 and 2. I hold my breath when they play rough. The little one is a ruffian, and pretty rough and tumble. But he is so tiny compared to his big brother. There will come a day when he will be bigger than his brother- you can tell that already- and then the tide will turn!