Was Burke involved?

[SapphireSteel]

By all accounts Burke was one cool cucumber.


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Cool as a cucumber, or thoroughly traumatised and totally in denial?

Both would result in a fairly dead pan expression when being asked the same questions over and over again.

:moo:

 

[BOESP]

if BDI I don't get why so many people in the DA office (and not only) put their careers on the line for it.this is something that doesn't make sense to me.if it was an accident,a kids game that went wrong,etc why the HUGE cover-up?this to me points away from BDI and points to something more serious(or shall I call it ...sick).:moo:

The only thing I can make of the BBM is two parents who didn't want their son to be subjected to public shame the rest of his life. Instead, it has back-fired.

I'm not a BDI but I do think some action involving him could have preceded Patsy accidentally causing JonBenet's head damage. I do not and never will believe that Steve Thomas would have bitten into this like a dog with a T-bone if he for one minute thought Burke Ramsey was guilty. Thomas was around long enough to see most of the evidence and seems to have never changed his mind.

 

[madeleine]

So, otg, let's say you are right (hey, I'm flexible). Do you think all the time and money spent investigating this case and the Karr farce come under the umbrella of helping the Ramseys stage the entire event?

Surely ... surely ... Boulder is not so corrupt as to spend taxpayer money, investigation time, and DA office time on a scam for 17 years and why in the world didn't the Ramseys keep their arrogant mouths shut and slowly sink into the sunset. Why would you want to keep your daughter's death in the forefront if your son was the guilty party? Why would John Ramsey write yet another book and keep the interest going if he wanted to protect his son?

The body language and style exhibited between John and Patsy Ramsey on every interview and video that I've seen suggest they barely tolerated each other. Why would that be? I could be wrong ... but I don't think so. :seeya:

@bold
yep,why stir the pot if BDI with all the tv appearances,etc?

I was on the fence between JDI and BDI....I think I jumped on another fence lately JDI/PDI :dunno:

 

[otg]

if BDI I don't get why so many people in the DA office (and not only) put their careers on the line for it.this is something that doesn't make sense to me.

The question there would be how many of the people in the DA's office saw it for what it was, and did they really think they would be putting their career on the line if they simply ignored the possibility.

if it was an accident,a kids game that went wrong,etc why the HUGE cover-up?this to me points away from BDI and points to something more serious(or shall I call it ...sick).:moo:

Because of the nature of the "game" that precipitated the entire event: sexual experimentation.

 

[otg]

BBM. I agree but otg I see different reasoning. Maybe Patsy didn't see "corporal cleansing" as sexual abuse or even abuse. Maybe she was shocked to hear that an outsider would consider it sexual abuse when she saw it as getting her baby clean (my words), much like the "pageant scrub."

Maybe.

Whether either or both of us are correct in our thinking, I still believe Patsy did it but maybe to cover up events that occurred between JonBenet and her brother.

You bring up valid possibilities, BOESP. We can disagree on which is correct. seeya: I still like you.)

 

[otg]

So, otg, let's say you are right (hey, I'm flexible).

Me too! Just call me Gumby.

Do you think all the time and money spent investigating this case and the Karr farce come under the umbrella of helping the Ramseys stage the entire event?

No, I think most of the people in a position to do something just didn't see it for what it was. Just like we see people here at WS who simply refuse to even consider it. Some of the people in the DA's office, knowing the person couldn't be charged or even named as a suspect, may have thought going after the people who were ultimately responsible (parents), and who had committed crimes in their attempt to conceal what happened, was the correct way of pursuing it. Others may have become suspicious of one or both of the parents because of the way they acted afterwards. Still others may very well have helped out (not even knowing or caring who did it) because of business or political ties, or the hope of their careers in the future if they "went along".

As far as the Karr fiasco... Did I mention yet today that Mary Keenan Lacy is simply an idiot? If not... Mary Keenan Lacy is an idiot! (but that's JMHO).

Surely ... surely ... Boulder is not so corrupt as to spend taxpayer money, investigation time, and DA office time on a scam for 17 years

Why on earth would you think that hard to believe?

and why in the world didn't the Ramseys keep their arrogant mouths shut and slowly sink into the sunset. Why would you want to keep your daughter's death in the forefront if your son was the guilty party? Why would John Ramsey write yet another book and keep the interest going if he wanted to protect his son?

I think you named the reason: Arrogance! I'd also add to that: Narcissism, confidence in their (JR's actually) ability to fool people, and their need to continue trying to explain themselves to the public. (Not to mention also the fact that they were paid handsomely for their books.)

The body language and style exhibited between John and Patsy Ramsey on every interview and video that I've seen suggest they barely tolerated each other. Why would that be? I could be wrong ... but I don't think so. :seeya:

And on that, we can certainly agree.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I think both P and J were abusing JB.

Maybe both sexually, P at least emotionally, verbally, physically, psychologically.

The fine print sort of doesn't matter, who exactly did what. They are equally guilty in my opinion.

 

[chlban]

[

QUOTE=BOESP;9888900]I'm not a BDI but I do think some action involving him could have preceded Patsy accidentally causing JonBenet's head damage. I do not and never will believe that Steve Thomas would have bitten into this like a dog with a T-bone if he for one minute thought Burke Ramsey was guilty. Thomas was around long enough to see most of the evidence and seems to have never changed his mind.

[/QUOTE]

I am not BDI either, but I can certainly see this possibility. ST's theory was that PDI as a result of rage brought on by the bed wetting. Maybe the rage was brought on by finding B and JB "playihg doctor" so to speak.

That could also go a long way to explaining the pineapple and the reason they lied about it.. Maybe Burke fed her the Pineapple, then proceeded to something else, Patsy caught them , lost her temper, etc.

The interesting point that has been brought up about Patsy being drunk could play in here to. Maybe causing her to overeact. I don't know if I really believe drunk, but I think it's highly likely she had a drug problem. It is not uncommon with abuse of prescription drugs.

So Patsy finds them playing doctor, loses it and kills JB probably unintentionally and you still have the ST basic theory.

 

[BOESP]

Me too! Just call me Gumby.

Okay Gumby. I wondered what the "g" in "otg" stood for. Now I know. :floorlaugh:

No, I think most of the people in a position to do something just didn't see it for what it was. Just like we see people here at WS who simply refuse to even consider it. <snip> because of business or political ties, or the hope of their careers in the future if they "went along".

I&UBM. Aha! Lightbulb moment. I see!

As far as the Karr fiasco... Did I mention yet today that Mary Keenan Lacy is simply an idiot? If not... Mary Keenan Lacy is an idiot! (but that's JMHO).

Don't be bashful, Gumby. Let it all out.

BOESP said: Surely ... surely ... Boulder is not so corrupt as to spend taxpayer money, investigation time, and DA office time on a scam for 17 years

otg replied: Why on earth would you think that hard to believe?

You're right. That was a stupid comment but hey, I'm from Kentucky and we put Mitch McConnell in office and once elected John Y. Brown . :facepalm:

<snip>
And on that, we can certainly agree.

I like you too Gumby. You are eggsceptional. :blushing:

But the Ramseys, if they were/are covering for Burke sure went out of their way to keep this in the public eye. John Ramsey ought to be smacked for that second book if his son truly was involved.

 

[otg]

(snipped)

John Ramsey ought to be smacked for that second book if his son truly was involved.

JR ought to be smacked for that second book, PERIOD -- regardless of who was or was not involved.

I&UBM? :dunno:

BOESP, you've given me more smiles today than I've had in a month. TY.

 

[Venom]

(snipped)
JR ought to be smacked for that second book, PERIOD -- regardless of who was or was not involved.

I&UBM? :dunno:

BOESP, you've given me more smiles today than I've had in a month. TY.

What is in that book? Quick synopsis?

 

[dodie20]

Me too! Just call me Gumby.

No, I think most of the people in a position to do something just didn't see it for what it was. Just like we see people here at WS who simply refuse to even consider it. Some of the people in the DA's office, knowing the person couldn't be charged or even named as a suspect, may have thought going after the people who were ultimately responsible (parents), and who had committed crimes in their attempt to conceal what happened, was the correct way of pursuing it. Others may have become suspicious of one or both of the parents because of the way they acted afterwards. Still others may very well have helped out (not even knowing or caring who did it) because of business or political ties, or the hope of their careers in the future if they "went along".

As far as the Karr fiasco... Did I mention yet today that Mary Keenan Lacy is simply an idiot? If not... Mary Keenan Lacy is an idiot! (but that's JMHO).


Why on earth would you think that hard to believe?


I think you named the reason: Arrogance! I'd also add to that: Narcissism, confidence in their (JR's actually) ability to fool people, and their need to continue trying to explain themselves to the public. (Not to mention also the fact that they were paid handsomely for their books.)


And on that, we can certainly agree.

I think the reason for writing the books was money. I don't know how much of an advance they got for instance, but it was obviously enough to run the risk of putting their words in print and ecord. And we've all seen the changes in stories, details, etc. If I couldn't keep my story straight, I wouldn't write a book. moo

 

[Venom]

This question isn't directed at you Venom (although you can answer if you like :blushing. I've missed the boat on Burke's DNA and the blanket. I've either never read or else forgot how it was determined that Burke's DNA was on the white blanket. Is it in a report or something? Was it Touch DNA or DNA from bodily fluids or skin cells?

I tried to find it but can't. Can anyone else help? :blushing:

 

[UKGuy]

I tried to find it but can't. Can anyone else help? :blushing:

BR's touch-dna is on the pink barbie nightgown found in the wine-cellar which was also bloodstained with JonBenet's blood.

Source: J Kolar.


.

 

[celticthyme]

After reading "Solving the Jonbenet Ramsey Case" by DocG, many of the missing pieces fell into place for me. When this death was initially reported, my gut reaction was that the father did it. Then I began to go with the herd and believe it was Patsy, though so much of that did not make sense. Recently I have gone back and read some of the depositions, police reports and findings from the days following her murder. The behavior of John and Patsy was so abnormal, bizarre, and unlikely for parents whose child just died, that it all screamed they were involved.

I think it was entirely possible that Burke could have bashed her on the head after she screamed during their sex play. However, the sexual trauma could also have been caused by John. Sexualization of a six year old child is not normal, it did not originate from her. All of this family participated in the sexual games and dysfunction going on there. Lots of deep dark secrets behind the walls of that house. Any of the three remaining family members could have killed her. Not sure who, outside of the family, might have been involved as well. It is a hot mess. Burke was involved by default. MOO

 

[celticthyme]

if BDI I don't get why so many people in the DA office (and not only) put their careers on the line for it.this is something that doesn't make sense to me.if it was an accident,a kids game that went wrong,etc why the HUGE cover-up?this to me points away from BDI and points to something more serious(or shall I call it ...sick).:moo:

Patsy and John were all about appearances. Very few in Boulder were willing to go up against John and his money, knowing he could ruin them ( and they ruined many, including friends.) By preventing LE from talking to them right from the beginning, shielding themselves in their sham grief and drugging Patsy up to the hilt, and surrounding themselves with attorneys, they got away with murder. To this day justice has never been served, for the killing of that poor child.

 

[BOESP]

(snipped)
JR ought to be smacked for that second book, PERIOD -- regardless of who was or was not involved.

Yes, you are right. Making money of your dead daughter is, well, I don't want to be banned so I'll just say :censored:.

I&UBM? :dunno:

Poor Gumby. I apologize for being vague. It means "Italicized and Underlined By Me."

BOESP

, you've given me more smiles today than I've had in a month. TY.

You are welcome. Glad to know I'm good for something.

 

[BOESP]

What is in that book? Quick synopsis?

I haven't read it Venom. I might get a used copy once they start selling for 99 cents on Amazon. The only thing I really want to read that John Ramsey has to say is a court transcript of his sworn testimony and/or his depositions.

 

[BOESP]

BR's touch-dna is on the pink barbie nightgown found in the wine-cellar which was also bloodstained with JonBenet's blood.

Source: J Kolar.


.

Thanks UKGuy. Do you know anything about Burke's DNA and the white blanket?

Touch DNA on the Barbie nightgown is like the fibers and other Touch DNA to me. Maybe useful. Maybe not. Since we don't really know if the blanket and/or Barbie gown were laundered it doesn't prove much, only possibilities. Maybe Burke's Touch DNA was transferred by Patsy or John or maybe Burke. How do we know which one and how do we know when? (rhetorical questions)

 

[Venom]

BR's touch-dna is on the pink barbie nightgown found in the wine-cellar which was also bloodstained with JonBenet's blood.

Source: J Kolar.


.

Thanks. I knew it was on the nightgown, but I thought I saw it was on the blanket too.