Was Joe involved?

[Pondering Mind]

I meant no disrespect, and I certainly apologize if I gave you the impression that I think you are "dense." I was just saying that it doesn't much matter if these people keep lying or if they "lawyer up." LE will be able to put together a reasonable version of what happened and then they will be indicted. Whoever it is. Misty can lay out all the smokescreen she wants. That's what criminals do. That was my whole point. I trust LE to see through that, as apparently they have not believed her sorry self from the get-go.

Regarding Ron, I am just tired of the argument that he "knew" what happened to Haleigh and either covered it up or ignored it because (1) he didn't kill the person, (2) he didn't tell LE about the person (even if that person was supposedly cleared), and/or (3) he married Misty, kept talking to Misty, or sold drugs to Misty. Even if he "knew," he couldn't prove it, and killing someone wouldn't solve anything. Had he killed someone, people would complain about THAT. I have no idea why RC does what he does. And if it turns out he was not involved in Haleigh's murder, I will never spend one more moment speculating on why an immature, impulsive drug user/smalltime dealer does anything. His life is a ruin now, anyway, in large part because of his disastrous choices. I feel no need to pile on.

Right now Joe is "fair game" because his cousins are throwing him under the bus, justified or not. And because LE is on TV talking about his "lawyering up." And because his GRANDMOTHER says he killed Haleigh ( or maybe his cousin did it...she's not sure...)

I understand and apologize myself, emotions are just running high I suppose, but still...

Regarding Joe, he would have to be an idiot NOT to lawyer up at this point..guilty or innocent. I believe he sees the bus coming straight toward him...jmoo..

Regarding Ron, I believe that he IS the main responsible party in HaLeigh's disappearance and death (I hate typing that ) and I believe that Misty helped him dispose of her body. I honestly think that the 2 of them are the only ones that know the whole truth. I also think LE knows this and that's why they KNOW that he is not going to talk. Thru Misty is the only way...again all jmho..

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Keep in my that he said if he knew what happened he would "straight call the cops". I wouldn't construe the way any of these people talk as a reason for suspecting guilt They all have displayed poor english at some point I believe. Another example is Ron's "B**** you got my daughter stole" Not saying my english is perfect especially when typing, but when speaking I atleast try to talk properly!

I am not pointing out his English as correct or not; I was referring to the tools of statement analysis, which is a methodology used to test whether statements are truthful. One sign of deception is the use of indefinite pronouns like "it" to refer to a crime, when the speaker has no way of knowing there WAS a crime (an "it") to deny doing. A person who says "I didn't do it" has an mind an "it," something specific. An innocent person would say, "I don't know what happened to Haleigh." "I didn't kidnap Haleigh." "I don't know who took Haleigh."

 

[pip]

Don't get me wrong.. I think Joe was/is not the greatest kid. But could his change of demeanor reflect a positve change since this traumatic event? (as opposed to Granny Hollar's take on his "change"?)

 

[Pondering Mind]

Great post PM! I just don't get the feeling that Tommy ratted on Jo. I don't think that is the case. I think Tommy told something of importance and that Jo could back up his story and LE went to TN just to corraborate that particular story. The way I look at it, if Misty is already saying Jo did it, and then Tommy supposedly tell LE Jo did it, why would they fly to TN just to stay only one hr and then let Jo go back home? It doesn't make sense to me.
But what does make sense to me is-Tommy told them something about Misty and Ron. Jo backed up his story and LE went for Misty and brought her to the search area..... Now we have a "person of interest" in the case. If they suspected Jo, we would've had a "person of interest" yesterday after there little meeting in TN. But we did not. But today we do. What changed Wednesday? Other than they brought Misty to the search area?

I think LE confronted Misty with the story Tommy and Jo explained to them about her and Ron and the evidence that they have to back those two stories and Misty folded. Now we have a person of interest.

jmo though

I absolutely agree, but could never say it so eloquently!

 

[dodie20]

Keep in my that he said if he knew what happened he would "straight call the cops". I wouldn't construe the way any of these people talk as a reason for suspecting guilt They all have displayed poor english at some point I believe. Another example is Ron's "B**** you got my daughter stole" Not saying my english is perfect especially when typing, but when speaking I atleast try to talk properly!

Thank you! Nancy Grace seems to think there's something sinister about Misty calling Haleigh, 'that little girl'. I'm from Texas & I say the same thing about my daughter. It's a term of endearment. Haleigh wasn't even Misty's daughter-just the girlfriend/babysitter. Also, I've heard 2 different Florida news reporters use the same phrase when describing Haleigh. I admit that I've never heard the word stole used instead of kidnapped, but maybe that's also local terminology. To me, it smacks of property & ownership, but I try to give Ronald the benefit of the doubt.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I understand and apologize myself, emotions are just running high I suppose, but still...

Regarding Joe, he would have to be an idiot NOT to lawyer up at this point..guilty or innocent. I believe he sees the bus coming straight toward him...jmoo..

Regarding Ron, I believe that he IS the main responsible party in HaLeigh's disappearance and death (I hate typing that ) and I believe that Misty helped him dispose of her body. I honestly think that the 2 of them are the only ones that know the whole truth. I also think LE knows this and that's why they KNOW that he is not going to talk. Thru Misty is the only way...again all jmho..

I know that you believe Ron is guilty. I just don't get it because from what I can see, there is no evidence of his involvement.
1) At the risk of being mocked (not by you!), he was at work, so far as we know.
2) There has to be some cell phone pings showing he wasn't at the river if he was calling half the night.
3) Tommy is the one who put himself at the scene of the abduction (mobile home), a class sign of guilt.
4) There was no forensic evidence of murder at the mobile home, which very much narrows the window for Ron's involvement.
5) The scratches on the van, and perhaps the blood.
6) Misty and Tommy are the ones who keep failing the polys.

I'm not closing the door on Ron, since LE may know way more about the items on my little list here. But I still can't see why so many people are still convinced that Ron is guilty even though other people seem to be the focus of the investigation. We'll just have to leave it at that. I clearly don't get it.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Don't get me wrong.. I think Joe was/is not the greatest kid. But could his change of demeanor reflect a positve change since this traumatic event? (as opposed to Granny Hollar's take on his "change"?)

That's what I'm wondering! Did Grandma Holler ever say what the change was? It wouldn't surprise me for him to have had suspicions before he left Satsuma and yes, even if he is not without his troubles (I guess, I really don't know) this whole thing has had to be traumatic for him. IF he did nothing wrong, imagine his family turning against him and in the face of a childs death pointing at him to protect other family members...

 

[Pondering Mind]

I know that you believe Ron is guilty. I just don't get it because from what I can see, there is no evidence of his involvement.
1) At the risk of being mocked (not by you!), he was at work, so far as we know.
2) There has to be some cell phone pings showing he wasn't at the river if he was calling half the night.
3) Tommy is the one who put himself at the scene of the abduction (mobile home), a class sign of guilt.
4) There was no forensic evidence of murder at the mobile home, which very much narrows the window for Ron's involvement.
5) The scratches on the van, and perhaps the blood.
6) Misty and Tommy are the ones who keep failing the polys.

I'm not closing the door on Ron, since LE may know way more about the items on my little list here. But I still can't see why so many people are still convinced that Ron is guilty even though other people seem to be the focus of the investigation. We'll just have to leave it at that. I clearly don't get it.

I understand..at least that we all see things differently and that's ok.

Hopefully whomever is guilty will soon be charged and HaLeigh will at least be able to rest in peace. That's all that matters in the long run..

 

[dodie20]

That's what I'm wondering! Did Grandma Holler ever say what the change was? It wouldn't surprise me for him to have had suspicions before he left Satsuma and yes, even if he is not without his troubles (I guess, I really don't know) this whole thing has had to be traumatic for him. IF he did nothing wrong, imagine his family turning against him and in the face of a childs death pointing at him to protect other family members...

That would be horrible, but they must have their reasons for thinking so lowly of him. But with that said, after watching all of the backstabing from this bunch, I could believe that maybe his family would build up a dramatic story & just roll with it, not really considering the fall out.

 

[scout35]

Joe "lawyering up" is a misnomer created by the media. His lawyer clearly stated (and proofed by prior records) that he was already Joe's lawyer. The guy would be a fool not to have representation with these accusations. Would you not have your lawyer represent you? It is no admission of guilt to have a lawyer. It is wise..in these matters.

It is not just the media, LE said it himself today at the presser and the way he said sent huge red flags to me. He sounded as if he was disgusted by the fact. But of course, that's just my perception.

 

[Pondering Mind]

That would be horrible, but they must have their reasons for thinking so lowly of him. But with that said, after watching all of the backstabing from this bunch, I could believe that maybe his family would build up a dramatic story & just roll with it, not really considering the fall out.

I don't doubt for a minute that he must have some sort of history for other family like Gma Holler to ponder this, but at the same time I believe she is looking to save Misty..or perhaps she believes Misty above the rest. I really do believe that when all is said and done ...at least in regards to HaLeigh, Joe is going to be left destroyed in the wake..I dunno..

Like you, from what we have seen, I can totally believe that Misty and Tommy perhaps figured OK, we can tell them Joe did it, show them where her body is and as long as we tell them same story they can't prove otherwise...They are about that ignorant imho..

 

[Dani_md]

Thank you! Nancy Grace seems to think there's something sinister about Misty calling Haleigh, 'that little girl'. I'm from Texas & I say the same thing about my daughter. It's a term of endearment. Haleigh wasn't even Misty's daughter-just the girlfriend/babysitter. Also, I've heard 2 different Florida news reporters use the same phrase when describing Haleigh. I admit that I've never heard the word stole used instead of kidnapped, but maybe that's also local terminology. To me, it smacks of property & ownership, but I try to give Ronald the benefit of the doubt.

I would also like to point out that I know a lot of people who use words incorrectly including myself and after doing so it becomes habit. I often talk of things in the past tense just from not thinking before I speak, so it kind of iritates me personally when people say "they are guilty they talked in the past tense." It comes easily for some people especially me. I also have a habit of saying seen rather then saw, I'd seen, I've seen, I have seen, and I had seen. To tell the truth I still don't know if I used it right. Not that any of that matters. Anyway tons of people when implicated on something often say " I didn't do it" when the finger is pointed. I myself don't read into it because I see it as normal reaction used by many, but I am no expert. I don't know if Joe is guilty of murder or not. I do believe he may have been there.

 

[dodie20]

Joe "lawyering up" is a misnomer created by the media. His lawyer clearly stated (and proofed by prior records) that he was already Joe's lawyer. The guy would be a fool not to have representation with these accusations. Would you not have your lawyer represent you? It is no admission of guilt to have a lawyer. It is wise..in these matters.

You're exactly right, it would be foolish to not have a lawyer. When the JonBenet Ramsey case came about, I remember how shocked we all were, & how guilty it made them seem. It was that unusual. But now, you just look really really dumb, not protecting yourself.

 

[Dani_md]

It is not just the media, LE said it himself today at the presser and the way he said sent huge red flags to me. He sounded as if he was disgusted by the fact. But of course, that's just my perception.

I once believed that if a innocent person lawyered up it mean't they were guilty. Once I had false charges brought on me by my mentally ill neighbor I immediately sought counsel. Luckily the SA dropped the charges within 48 hours in my case. But If I had a ton of people throwing me under the bus and had cops questioning me before I'd lawyer up too!

 

[Leila]

As far as motive.. I don't see any. He could just be a violent drug or sex freak who doesn't need one motive, although I don't believe that. My bigger question is.. why wait 14 months to spill guts about all these sordid details about Joe doing it? What would they have to lose by creating these elaborate stories 14 months ago if Joe did it? If Misty was so afraid of Joe.. why would she visit Tennesee and not stay at a safe distance in Florida? Why didn't she just tell LE what happened? He was already back in TN the day after! That would have been safe for her to tell LE. Why hang flyers with him..? (Even though he may have allegedly done it with Lisa..why was that OK with Misty? She would obviously know..) This is all hogwash. Why would they blame HIM if he was not the murderer, but invoved? Wouldn't he rat them out too in return?? It just does not add up.

Misty had already suggested Joe as the suspect in the beginning - 14 months ago. There was no reason to withhold information from LE for 14 months. She could have told LE in the beginning, all she knew about Joe. TC could have told LE about Joe. There's been ample opportunities for both MC and TC to tell LE everything they knew about Joe. There's no reason for either MC or TC to wait until now.

 

[pip]

It is not just the media, LE said it himself today at the presser and the way he said sent huge red flags to me. He sounded as if he was disgusted by the fact. But of course, that's just my perception.

I heard it too. But it is not OK to assume he is guilty for having a lawyer. He has had this lawyer since 2007, according to records. That statement made me worried LE was gung-ho that they "had their guy", based on the fact that he had representation. LE better have much more than Granny's statements to go on. So far, that is all that is officially known.

 

[Curious Me]

I didn't state that he did kill them.. obviously he did not.. but it is MO that if he thought that Joe or anyone else had anything to do with it and he was NOT involved himself, judging from what we have witnessed of his behavior so far, I certainly do believe that someone would be dead and I couldn't say that I would blame him, to be perfectly honest. It's JMO that Ron would not have sat idly by and kept his mouth shut if that was the case and he knew or had a good idea who murdered "his heart".

Also I don't believe that LE is using Joe, I believe Misty is, I haven't heard any accusation towards Joe from LE as a matter of fact, have you? LE didn't put all that carp out there about Joe.

As far as Tommy's possible "believable" confession, he can only confess to what he knows or what he believes will help Misty out. What makes you so sure that he does have direct knowledge? Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't..IMO Misty is the one with the direct info and Ron of course, but he ain't talking..

Many of us here have plenty of family members and friends who are LE and even those that don't have a pretty good idea of why LE does investigations and collect evidence...thanks anyway, but I'm really not that dense..:waitasec:

BBM Good thinking going on in your post.

I feel Ron's behavior has been questionable. He likely knows more and supported a cover up. I really hope not because it will make this case all the sadder. But Ron is street smart enough to have figured it out who crossed him and took his heart. That person would be dead by now if Ron didn't have his involvement or something he wants kept hidden.

Really, haven't figured whether JO did anything yet. Praying they do have solid evidence and information to nail the responsible ones. Remember, it's been said, "Misty knows she's in trouble now".

 

[suspicious1]

Joe "lawyering up" is a misnomer created by the media. His lawyer clearly stated (and proofed by prior records) that he was already Joe's lawyer. The guy would be a fool not to have representation with these accusations. Would you not have your lawyer represent you? It is no admission of guilt to have a lawyer. It is wise..in these matters.

O/T

My mother had problems with a mechanic shop and they would not release her car to her. We showed up at this garage on several occasions with the police because we knew that this shop was trying to pull a fast on my mother. One day at this shop we were accompanied by the police...when the owner started talking and being deceitful....It was the cop who told my mother that she needed to get a lawyer because things were not right. He even offered up his card, just in case she needed him later.

My point is-it was the cop that convinced my mother to get a lawyer and that's exactly what she did. In the end, she got her truck back and the shop ended up paying out money to her and not the other way around.

 

[kamky]

Do we know if JO has agreed to a poly? Has he already taken one?

Remember in the initial Police telephone call, the very disrespectful thing that Ron says to Misty (questions how could she let her 'get taken', 'or stolen' -or something to the affect of that?). Was that a 'slip of the tongue' or possibly part of the 'plan'? That was a very strange choice of words to 'ask' her out of the blue.

I want to believe that JO is just being framed and that Haleigh's demise was some sort of an accident! I can't bear the thought of another small, innocent child being sexually molested by a grown man (men). That is incomprehensible to me. ESPECIALLY thinking that Misty KNEW what was happening to Haleigh. And I find it even harder to believe that RC would just stand around twiddling his thumbs, while this family walks around free - because I truly do believe that even if he had an the slightest inkling they had something to do with Haleigh's disappearance, someone would have been shot!

Sorry, but I think everyone of these people deserve EVERYTHING they have coming to them. This case is baffling, mainly because of the mentality and life style these people possess!
JMO

Still Praying for Haleigh!

I agree very much with part of your post. I also find it hard to handle, and even imagine, a grown man molesting a child. It's almost unfathomable to me and is an absolutely despicable act.

But, I respectfully disagree with the last part. My lifestyle is completely different than that of these folks, but I accept that there are many different lifestyles in this country. Lack of education, lack of skills, lack of jobs, lack of money, and the attitudes & ways of life handed down from generation to generation are all powerful factors in how one lives one's life. I don't have much regard for drug use, excessive alcohol use, or criminal activity. These people may deserve jail for these abuses. But, they sure don't deserve the loss of a child they loved, especially the way it has played out.

 

[pip]

I am most concerned that true justice is achieved for Haleigh. She is the ONLY victim here. I am prepared to question everything until truth is proven. No free passes for county LE politics, family lies, Grandma's tears, or juicy suspects. We have been given very little confirmed facts. Until the proof is shared, all is speculation. I do have my suspects though.. In 14 months..we have nothing to solidly go on. And even after todays events..we still have no proof.