Was Joe involved?

[doobiedoo52]

It will be interesting to see what LE decides is the real story. We have Steve Brown saying he solved the case and he stated that he doesn't believe RC is involved or that MC had anything to do with the death (at least that's how I interpreted it). It's pretty obvious that Joe and Tommy are his suspects.

Last night we had a bounty hunter, criminal profiler, lva and lie detector operator, and investigative journalist all agreeing that RC and MC both are being deceptive and know and are involved in the death/coverup.

I think LE put a lot of faith (and expense) in Mr Brown's theory. What if they found nothing? Are we back to square one?

 

[LisaNY]

I think MC & ToC have turned on RC. I think LE went to TN to speak to JO and let him know that they were still "publicly" pointing fingers at JO to make RC think everyone was going along with the original plan. This is why JO states "I want to say something, but I CAN'T". Also, I think the look on RC face was pure FEAR, and for the first time since this began. All of a sudden, le let him know that they believe his daughter to be dead, and he requests to go to gen pop?? IMO this as to do 1 of 2 things - get his hands on some drugs, or to hear what is being said in the prison yard about the case. I also believe that JO probably knew about what happened to Haleigh, and does have some guilt, perhaps he is the one who stayed behind when ToC / TiC / MC disposed of the body. All this is MOO.

 

[txsvicki]

I hope they have more evidence than the word of Misty and Tommy against Joe. Misty says Joe took Haleigh, but doesn't know where Tommy went. So, is Tommy the eyewitness to the actual murder? He's right in the middle of everything that has ever been reported and I just don't know how they would determine who actually killed Haleigh. They are all telling lies and are very inconsistent.

 

[amysmom]

For me to possibly believe that Joe Overstreet is involved with the crime against Haleigh Cummings, all someone needs to do is show me ANYTHING that didn't come from a proven liar who's in jail. Show me something, anything, that was said out of a moral sense of obligation to right a horrible wrong against this little girl instead of a self serving batch of contradictory hogwash and I PROMISE YOU I will lead the charge against a monster.

s&bbm

GMTA!

Monday evening's "Nancy Grace" was an exercise in probing the depths of human ignorance, stupidity, depravity, and self-service. Listening to and watching Misty Croslin wallow in abject self-pity over the unfairness of her predicament was a lesson in reality-denying regression. And still, all those jailhouse tapes, footage which Putnam County law enforcement are no doubt perusing with minute care, have failed to gain any real headway into the missing person case of Haleigh Cummings.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...oslin_ready_to_talk_in_haleigh_pg2.html?cat=8

 

[TrialAddict]

Why did the whole family hate Joe so much? I know why Misty did, but why the rest of the family? Did they believe Misty's story about him messing with her when she was younger and turn on him because of that? Couldn't be because he is a bad guy. He doesn't seem any worse than all the others. Why let him stay at your home if he is so bad. And why would Ron even want him around, if he believed Misty's story about Joe being a sex offender? Would Ron or any other family members allow a sex offender to stay with them and be around their children? Just doesn't make any sense IMO

 

[pip]

Why did the whole family hate Joe so much? I know why Misty did, but why the rest of the family? Did they believe Misty's story about him messing with her when she was younger and turn on him because of that? Couldn't be because he is a bad guy. He doesn't seem any worse than all the others. Why let him stay at your home if he is so bad. And why would Ron even want him around, if he believed Misty's story about Joe being a sex offender? Would Ron or any other family members allow a sex offender to stay with them and be around their children? Just doesn't make any sense IMO

Joe must be the one that doesn't know ANYTHING about anything.. so he is the perfect guy to throw under the bus by all of those involved. He has no ammo to rat anyone out with about anything. Perfect target, imo. He is a like the rest, imo.. but is a scapegoat for the guilty.
I may have to eat crow.. but this is the only thing that makes the most sense to me at this time.

 

[elle1919]

For me to possibly believe that Joe Overstreet is involved with the crime against Haleigh Cummings, all someone needs to do is show me ANYTHING that didn't come from a proven liar who's in jail. Show me something, anything, that was said out of a moral sense of obligation to right a horrible wrong against this little girl instead of a self serving batch of contradictory hogwash and I PROMISE YOU I will lead the charge against a monster.

Ronald Cummings AND his child bride have publically stated that Cousin Joe "stole" Ronald's gun yet each also tell conflicting tales of knowing EXACTLY where to retrive the gun! Just give me one sensible reason to believe anything about this tale being true!

Ronald Cummings has related a tale of Cousin Joe saying what a great place the Shell Harbor dock would be to get rid of a body to both Art Harris and Cobra. Art Harris said that Ronald told him Joe liked to toss small animals to the alligators for kicks to illustrate. In the Cobra tapes recently released, the tale is told somewhat differently but still boils down to Ronald saying Joe thought that location would be a good place to dispose of a body.

But Houston, we have a problem for lift off!

According to the Cobra tapes, Ronald says Joe "stole" his gun the first day he ever met him, which was the third day of Joe's 2 week visit! Exactly when was this "hanging out at the dock with Joe" tale that Ronald Cummings told Art Harris about supposed to have occured? Am I supposed to believe that Ronald was hanging at the dock with a dastardly gun thief after being a "victim" of the thief's crime? GMAB!

This past week we were introduced to Granny Flo with her tale of "breaking the case" by having received two phone calls from Tommy and Misty each blaming Cousin Joe. The calls just "happened" to be FIFTEEN MINUTES apart! Is this a small world or what? Two of her grandkids, both in jail, both over 900 miles away, just "happened" to call her accusing another grandkid who lives in the same town as her of murdering a little girl in Florida, at the SAME dock that the child's father said alligators were being fed!

Of course for this convoluted tale to be believed, it is critical that we ignore what Misty said in her LVA when she said she was "afraid" to be around Cousin Joe by herself. We have to ignore the picture of her and Joe hanging missing flyers less than 24 hours after this alleged murder by Joe. We're supposed to ignore that Misty went this 900 miles last summer to visit with Joe and family in Tennessee! GMAB!

Like I said, show me something, anything, that didn't come from a lying jailbird and I'm right there with ya on the "Cousin Joe did it" bandwagon. Until then, I don't believe any of their hogwash.

Misty went to stay with Flora near the end of last summer while she was waiting for the restraining order to be lifted from her her brother and she could go back and live with her mom and pops at Lindsy and Tommy's...:waitasec that was confusing....lol) Joe Overstreet doesn't live with Flora Hollars.

As far as showing you something that doesn't come from a lying jailbird, I happen to believe that Law Enforcement has plenty of evidence on Joe Overstreet and have been holding it very very close to the vest for the past year, don't you think that is possible at all? That LE is holding their cards with Joe until an arrest is made?

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Misty went to stay with Flora near the end of last summer while she was waiting for the restraining order to be lifted from her her brother and she could go back and live with her mom and pops at Lindsy and Tommy's...:waitasec that was confusing....lol) Joe Overstreet doesn't live with Flora Hollars.

As far as showing you something that doesn't come from a lying jailbird, I happen to believe that Law Enforcement has plenty of evidence on Joe Overstreet and have been holding it very very close to the vest for the past year, don't you think that is possible at all? That LE is holding their cards with Joe until an arrest is made?

I think the questions for LE have always been: Who was at the mobile home? Which of these people did something to Haleigh? And where did he/she/they take her body? The "door propped open" story has never held water, given Ron's statement that the door shuts itself and is always locked. If there was forensic evidence in the mobile home, it wasn't of a bloody crime. That doesn't mean that they don't have fingerprints, DNA or other stuff that is part of a circumstantial case. Once we get past the "stolen in the night lie," it's a matter of who was there and when. And Misty is at the heart of it. She can lie but her lies can only go so far if LE knows she was there. All criminals lie about their crimes. This is nothing new; LE's job is to gather evidence that will convict the guilty regardless of what they say.

 

[chesterp]

Joe must be the one that doesn't know ANYTHING about anything.. so he is the perfect guy to throw under the bus by all of those involved. He has no ammo to rat anyone out with about anything. Perfect target, imo. He is a like the rest, imo.. but is a scapegoat for the guilty.
I may have to eat crow.. but this is the only thing that makes the most sense to me at this time.

We all have different strong opinions about this case. I do not think it should be about eating crow. We all base our opinions on facts...we just see certain facts differently.

Until an arrest is made we will continue feeling what we feel. No burping up feathers allowed.

 

[tehcloser]

*Snort@feather burping. That was good Chester.

 

[lishac23]

I am soooooo on the fence about Ol' Joe. I wouldn't be surprised if he is found to be involved either actually being the perpetrator or to the very least aidding after the fact. My problem is like many others....believing anything that comes out of the mouths of MC and TC. I can't think of any logical reason why these two would sit in jail week after week and protect they only person who is out free walking the streets. Then all of a sudden Grandma is able to break TC and get him to confess that Joe did it. If MC and TC knew all this time, I think they would be slightly perturbed that they're sitting in jail on unrelated charges and our unfavorite cousin is sitting at home free as bird. If that was really the case, I think they would have sung long ago.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Misty went to stay with Flora near the end of last summer while she was waiting for the restraining order to be lifted from her her brother and she could go back and live with her mom and pops at Lindsy and Tommy's...:waitasec that was confusing....lol) Joe Overstreet doesn't live with Flora Hollars.

As far as showing you something that doesn't come from a lying jailbird, I happen to believe that Law Enforcement has plenty of evidence on Joe Overstreet and have been holding it very very close to the vest for the past year, don't you think that is possible at all? That LE is holding their cards with Joe until an arrest is made?

Elle, of course I realize that any thing's possible, but my problem in embracing the notion of Cousin Joe harming Haleigh stems primarily from the sources of the allegations and the sheer incredulous nature of what they are saying.

-Ronald and Misty say Joe stole a gun, but yet with two different versions of their own story, both state that Ronald knew EXACTLY where to go get the gun! Does that seem reasonable to you? Or can you at least see that it seems much more likely that Ronald hid the gun and there was no theft?

-Ronald told Art Harris the gruesome tale of Cousin Joe getting his kicks one night throwing small animals to the gators while THEY were at the dock. According to the new Cobra tapes, Ronald alleges that Joe also told Tommy what a perfect place to dispose of a body that the Shell Harbor dock would be.

(1) Do those type statements sound more like something a 19 year old kid from Tennessee (where there are no gators) would say or something a 25 year resident with close proximity to the river might say?

(2) But the main illogical part of this entire Joe/gator/dock story to me is WHEN was Ronald Cummings supposed to have been hanging out at the dock with Joe? Thanks to the Cobra tapes we now know something important to this storyline. Ronald's story is that Joe "stole" his gun the first day he met him. After all the talk about smashing hands, etc. made by Ronald on the Cobra tapes is it reasonable to believe that he EVER hung out with Joe at the dock after he stole his gun?

As to LE having some type of information on Cousin Joe making him a suspect yet keeping it close to the vest, frankly I don't know but it seems unlikely to me. How could they allow him to remain unchecked to live in another state for 15 months? This kid lives with his mother, IIRC. What's keeping him from just disappearing if he's guilty of something?

Mainly, Elle, until I hear something beside what lying jailbirds say for their own self serving interests, I can't get past the very words of LE from last year after interviewing Joe. Go to this link if you don't remember it:

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/...cousin_not_a_suspect_in_haleigh_cummings_case

LE hasn't used the words "subsequently ruled out" AND "not a suspect" about anyone besides the a/c man in this entire case.

Elle, I've read your posts for a long time now. I know it has not escaped your attention that this information seems to be coming not from a standpoint of moral obligation for the memory of a little girl but rather a desperate attempt at obtaining a "get out of jail card".

It's just going to take more than that for me.

 

[whiskeygurl]

If you watch Joe in his press release sitting there next to his lawyer. Watch his eye's and I see a liar. There was no reason for Joe to kill this little girl over a gun that belonged to Ron. I think Joe was helping Misty cover up a crime.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

http://www.cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1004/15/ng.01.html

HOLLARS: What I was told by Misty this morning was that Tommy and Joe took Haleigh and wrapped a yellow rope around her and carried her to the dock and tied a brick around the bottom -- the other end of the rope and throwed her into the river. Now, that come from Misty`s mouth into my ear.

GRACE: This morning?

HOLLARS: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Could I ask you why they would have done that? Joe Overstreet and Tommy Croslin, why they would have done that? Had they allegedly molested Haleigh?
[snipped for space]

GRACE: OK. What is the second version you were told about Haleigh`s death?

HOLLARS: I was told that Misty had knocked her in the head and killed her and that Joe and Tommy got rid of her.

GRACE: Knocked her in the head with what, a cinderblock?

HOLLARS: No, just a piece of wood or something, is the way that it was put to me. But I didn`t believe that when I heard it.

GRACE: Who told you that?

HOLLARS: It come from one of them in Florida, is all I can say.

GRACE: Did they say why Misty would have struck 5-year-old Haleigh?

[snipped for space]

GRACE: What was the first story you were told about Haleigh`s death?

HOLLARS: First thing that I was told was that Joe had killed her. That was the first words that I was told.

GRACE: Why was -- why did he kill her in the first version?

HOLLARS: That I don`t have any idea. I don`t even know whether she was dead when she hit the water or not.

GRACE: Who told you the first version?

HOLLARS: Oh, that may have came from Misty. I`m not sure.

Here is the bass-ackwards interview of the grandmother. So far, we've got someone in Florida naming Misty; Misty naming Joe and Tommy, and a first version in which someone, perhaps Misty, just names Joe.

Now, here is another part of the same transcript:

GRACE: Ms. Hollars, when Joe -- excuse me -- when Tommy Croslin calls you from the jail crying, what did he say happened?

HOLLARS: He was crying. And I told him, I said, You failed your lie detector test, didn`t you, Tommy? He says, Yes, I did. And I told him, I says, Now it`s time for it to come to a head. I want to know right now. In my heart, I already know. I said, Did Joe do this? He says, Yes, Nanny, Joe did. But he never implicated himself at that time. Misty`s the one that implicated Joe and Tommy.

The problem with this segment is that, given the way the grandmother frames this story, we don't know what Tommy was crying about, why he failed the lie detector test, because grandma gives him the answer: "Joe did this." So Tommy, according to her, "never implicated himself."

Go back to the Misty remarks about two people being hurt, one "we [Croslins] care about" and one they don't. The effort for Misty and Tommy is to minimize Misty and Tommy's involvement because it can't be successfully denied that they weren't involved. LE has something that has them cornered. So Joe becomes the main focus of their testimony.

That doesn't make Joe innocent; it just means that there are two of them to testify against him, and the van can pretty much be tied to Joe, according to what we heard last week. So unless he's got something to minimize his own involvement and turn things back on Misty and Tommy, he seems to be the guy on the hook.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

If you watch Joe in his press release sitting there next to his lawyer. Watch his eye's and I see a liar. There was no reason for Joe to kill this little girl over a gun that belonged to Ron. I think Joe was helping Misty cover up a crime.

Or what Misty has said in the past about being molested was true, and Joe went after Misty. Especially in families, molesters are often NOT registered sex offenders. The only reasons I can see for anyone murdering Haleigh are: 1) to cover up molestation (if Haleigh said she would "tell"); 2) to hit her in a fit of anger and cause so much damage that the assault had to be covered up. If there is any other scenario involving these three, then I think one of them must be a screenwriter, because they are too dim to be that creative. Even their cover story about the cinder block and the door was dim.

 

[txsvicki]

I've thought of another question about the supposed condition of Joe that night. Don't know much about how drugs or crack would affect people, but Misty says he and Tommy were badly messed up, so bad that she was suprised he was able to drive home which must have resulted in the scratch on the van. If he was so messed up, how was he able to get the cinder blocks and rope ( possibly from Tommy's), tie it all, get Haleigh into the van, keep her quiet, and drive to lake and kill her then stage the trailer with the blocked door and do something about the blanket? How did he get it all done securely without the body floating away and being discovered. He was so messed up, but awoke easily, shocked, and alert when the call came about Haleigh. Also, how does Tommy even remember it all enough to call and tell his Granny if he was so messed up.

 

[elle1919]

Elle, of course I realize that any thing's possible, but my problem in embracing the notion of Cousin Joe harming Haleigh stems primarily from the sources of the allegations and the sheer incredulous nature of what they are saying.

-Ronald and Misty say Joe stole a gun, but yet with two different versions of their own story, both state that Ronald knew EXACTLY where to go get the gun! Does that seem reasonable to you? Or can you at least see that it seems much more likely that Ronald hid the gun and there was no theft?

-Ronald told Art Harris the gruesome tale of Cousin Joe getting his kicks one night throwing small animals to the gators while THEY were at the dock. According to the new Cobra tapes, Ronald alleges that Joe also told Tommy what a perfect place to dispose of a body that the Shell Harbor dock would be.

(1) Do those type statements sound more like something a 19 year old kid from Tennessee (where there are no gators) would say or something a 25 year resident with close proximity to the river might say?

(2) But the main illogical part of this entire Joe/gator/dock story to me is WHEN was Ronald Cummings supposed to have been hanging out at the dock with Joe? Thanks to the Cobra tapes we now know something important to this storyline. Ronald's story is that Joe "stole" his gun the first day he met him. After all the talk about smashing hands, etc. made by Ronald on the Cobra tapes is it reasonable to believe that he EVER hung out with Joe at the dock after he stole his gun?

As to LE having some type of information on Cousin Joe making him a suspect yet keeping it close to the vest, frankly I don't know but it seems unlikely to me. How could they allow him to remain unchecked to live in another state for 15 months? This kid lives with his mother, IIRC. What's keeping him from just disappearing if he's guilty of something?

Mainly, Elle, until I hear something beside what lying jailbirds say for their own self serving interests, I can't get past the very words of LE from last year after interviewing Joe. Go to this link if you don't remember it:

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/...cousin_not_a_suspect_in_haleigh_cummings_case

LE hasn't used the words "subsequently ruled out" AND "not a suspect" about anyone besides the a/c man in this entire case.

Elle, I've read your posts for a long time now. I know it has not escaped your attention that this information seems to be coming not from a standpoint of moral obligation for the memory of a little girl but rather a desperate attempt at obtaining a "get out of jail card".

It's just going to take more than that for me.

Papa I really enjoy discussing things with you.....you make me think, you make me want to seek out what the true facts are. I don't know what the truth is honestly. I don't know if any of these people that we discuss have any inkling what the truth means. I can't see where any of them have been honest and forthcoming for Haleigh....and honestly that ticks me off. Having said all of that, I have read and re-read the article that Art Harris wrote about RC and Joe and the alligator story. He first ran the story after the pond search at the mondex and this is what he said
http://www.artharris.com/2009/09/19/putnam-county-pond-search-tied-to-haleigh-cummings-tips/

snip~We were together months ago, not far from the pond, at another water’s edge in Satsuma… where marble sized eyes were visible popping out of the St. John’s River, and a dock not far from Ronald’s trailer, where Haleigh’s father lead us to take a look, months ago, noting the lazy cruising ground of the scaly predators, and their indiscrimanting appetite.

Ronald told me that he and Joe Overstreet, Misty’s Tennessee cousin, used to visit the very spot on the St. John’s river to fish, shoot the breeze, maybe drink a tall, cool one, and talk about life…and the appetite of Alligators. In fact, he said, in an exclusive chat with The Bald Truth months ago, that Joe talked about one of his favorite pastimes–watching alligators go to town on small animals or big ones that fell or got tossed in for their dining pleasure.

and this~A horrible, gruesome thing to ponder, but as Ronald said Joe related how he loved to watch ‘hongry alligators chow down, and we are told Joe and Tommy Croslin, oh, and don’t forget the AC guy, all paid a visit to the trailer the same day Misty reported Haleigh missing. Joe could not be reached for comment, though Joe’s mother told me last week he was sleeping when I called her home in the Nashville ‘burbs. It was maybe noon. He’d been up late talking to two investigators, and got a second visit from them again last week.~ end

You say that RC was at the dock with Joe while while he threw in small animals to get eaten by the alligators and that isn't what AH said. is it? Maybe I am misunderstanding. Art says he was at the dock with Ronald and he relayed the story. Does it make a difference....probably not except that RC wasn't at the dock with Joe, I don't think RC went anywhere or did anything with Joe after the gun thing. I don't know why I think that, it's just a feeling I have. I thought that RC might have known Joe Overstreet before he knew misty but after reading your post I see that RC told Cobra that Joe stole the gun after the first day that he met him. Is that what he told Cobra....THE FIRST DAY HE MET HIM? I just grow more confused by the hour.

In regards to the portion of your post that I bolded.....I couldn't agree more Papa, honestly and I hope none of these players ever see the light of day again, and if Ronald Cummings is involved in any way in the loss of his precious daughter's life then jail will be too good for him. Still like you with Joe, I need more facts from LE before I can condemn him for doing anything other than allowing these people around his children, that is almost bad enough.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Elle, it has been a while since I read the particular article you referenced and I will concede your point that I may have misunderstood whether Ronald was actually with Joe when the small animals were alleged to have been tossed, but my main points are even better illustrated by your bolded quote:

Ronald told me that he and Joe Overstreet, Misty’s Tennessee cousin, used to visit the very spot on the St. John’s river to fish, shoot the breeze, maybe drink a tall, cool one, and talk about life…and the appetite of Alligators....Joe talked about one of his favorite pastimes–watching alligators go to town on small animals or big ones that fell or got tossed in for their dining pleasure.

Since Ronald told Cobra that Joe stole his pistol the first day he met him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4T_2ysfH_8

You and I completely agree on this:

I don't think RC went anywhere or did anything with Joe after the gun thing.

My main point of disconnect with this story is that since the gun was allegedly stolen on day one of their acquaintance, when are Ronald and Joe supposed to have gone to the river to "fish, shoot the breeze, maybe drink a tall cool one, and talk about life...and the appetite of Alligators" as he told Art Harris?

BTW, I very much enjoy and appreciate your insight as well.

 

[suspicious1]

Concerned Papa I think you got it!

Jo's lawyer said that Jo was a passenger in a vehicle. It has to either be pertaining to the blue van or one of Ron's vehicles. But it's Ron who says they, him and JO, use to fish down there at that dock. IMO, Jo got caught up in this mess.

What if Jo was with Ron that night? The passenger in Ron's car?

 

[twall]

Here is a clarification from Art to a poster on his site. He states that the dock Ron took him to was not the same one where the search was last week. This dock was closer to Ron's Green Lane home (the dock off of Buchanan?) and was searched right after Haleigh went missing. Tommy had just gone deer hunting? Is it in season in Fl. in Jan/Feb? Maybe that's why the deer was in the van-he didn't want to be caught with it!
I think Tommy has a bit more to worry about now than getting a citation for hunting out of season, if he was. JMO

Art Harris Says:

April 19th, 2010 at 3:30 am
CC–
What I said was that I visited a nearby dock, closer to the trailer, with Ronald. That’s where he went with Joe he said, to toss deer carcasses that he said Joe enjoyed watching alligators devour. this dock is down the road…the first dock has also been searched, along with waters around it. Divers found deer bones, but not human bones. Tommy had just gone deer hunting btw. art

http://www.artharris.com/2010/04/14/exclusive-will-river-yield-haleigh-cummings-clues/#comments

ETA-sorry about the text-I must have hit a key by mistake! I'm not yelling!!