Was Josh Seen Buying A LARGE Amount of Shrink Wrap?

[PickieChickie]

Are you sure it was a cutting torch? For that purpose one might use a more pedestrian propane torch. A cutting torch uses other gases like acetylene and oxygen to get a much hotter flame. Only tasks like metal cutting and welding require such a hot flame.

Yes, I'm sure. That's why he can make a fire in a minute! Lol!

 

[PickieChickie]

Why was the General Discussion shut down?:waitasec:

According to the explanation, too much valuable information was getting lost in the general discussion and we are encouraged to start new discussion topics. However, I can't figure out how to do that so it seems the general discussion is occurring here. I am very dismayed and disappointed with that decision. I don't like to have to keep jumping around from topic to topic to catch up on the discussions!

 

[RayO]

Scratching my head a bit about why, apparently, they have enough to arrest Josh? If the story about this purchase is true, they have a credit card transaction in WVC for a supply not needed on a camping trip at the time he said he was away camping, on top of the general absurdity of his alibi and refusal to cooperate with any searching for his wife.

Just thinking if they arrest him, maybe they can put the screws to him a bit by showing how his alibi doesn't fit and get him to confess and reveal what he did to Susan -- so the family and friends can have a proper burial for her.

Can preserving the strength of the legal case against Josh work against the goal, arguably more important?, of finding Susan?

 

[RayO]

Yes, I'm sure. That's why he can make a fire in a minute! Lol!

LOL, reminds me of this old internet video of a grill lighting demonstration done by a Purdue professor...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjPxDOEdsX8[/ame]

 

[PickieChickie]

LOL, reminds me of this old internet video of a grill lighting demonstration done by a Purdue professor...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjPxDOEdsX8

And your video reminded me of this one which is hilarious! Lol!
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omGvAuMGJN4[/ame]

 

[grayjay]

I was thinking he might have brought the generator and a really long, heavy duty extension cord with a drop light so he could see to put her in a cave or down a mine. Clearly he felt the need to come up with a reason to explain why he brought a generator with him. If the generator had been used before, they generally smell and I wouldn't want to take one in an enclosed vehicle for the bad fumes they put off.

Taking a generator with him to test it is about the dumbest excuse I've heard of. You buy a new generator, the first thing most people would do would be to fire it up at home to make sure it works, not put it in a van with two little kids and take it and a container of gas out in the middle of nowhere to test it!

When I think of a generator, I do think of a gas powered engine that sounds like the neighbor's lawn mower and the power from it can run a small ceramic heater, which is all he'd need to keep the van as warm as needed.

The heater would be key, and if LE found none it'd be telling. Ours takes up less than a cubic foot in space and definitely keeps us toasty. He could always just fire up the van and have heat in a few minutes and then drive home if they were too cold. But there's a reason they shut down camping at so many places in winter: there's really not much to do and the cold wears down the immune system.

 

[PickieChickie]

When I think of a generator, I do think of a gas powered engine that sounds like the neighbor's lawn mower and the power from it can run a small ceramic heater, which is all he'd need to keep the van as warm as needed.

The heater would be key, and if LE found none it'd be telling. Ours takes up less than a cubic foot in space and definitely keeps us toasty. He could always just fire up the van and have heat in a few minutes and then drive home if they were too cold. But there's a reason they shut down camping at so many places in winter: there's really not much to do and the cold wears down the immune system.

But then you have the problem of where to stick the cord through? And, generators use a lot of gas! (I used to live on a remote piece of property where there was no electricity.) Keeping the van running wouldn't have cost that much more!

 

[grayjay]

But then you have the problem of where to stick the cord through? And, generators use a lot of gas! (I used to live on a remote piece of property where there was no electricity.) Keeping the van running wouldn't have cost that much more!

Didn't say I thought he was good at the math, but when it comes to talking big, the generator sounds spiffy. We hate them but do know people use them in remote sites when it's cold. They don't pose a threat of CO2 poisoning like the van engine would, AFAIK. Finding a place for the cord is a relatively minor problem to solve. A window opened a little bit and sealed with a towel is all you'd need.

 

[rd_jfc]

This is really interesting information. Thanks Tricia and PickieChickie (about the acetelyne torch being purchased on Monday).

I'm sure there's a ton of details I haven't read, but my general reaction to the many comments (from others) about Powell being stupid, lazy, averse to getting his hands dirty, etc. is that you are misjudging this guy. Other than the going camping at midnight forgetting what night it was being the lamest alibi in the history of silent ex's, it and everything else he has done has unfortunately been quite effective.

So far what I have seen has very strong overtones of copying what Hans Reiser did in disappearing Nina Reiser. Hans was also a programmer like Josh (as am I). There is also a strong overtone of Scott Peterson here as well. I don't doubt Powell planned this carefully.

The Saturday morning photog event with Josh getting himself in pictures with Susan using his camera hung around his neck is to me carefully staged fo the planned disappearance. That just cries out as being obviously staged for his benefit.

I also think that taking anything he did after returning home as anything but a decoy is a mistake. He would expect that the police would be examining everything he did. With both the camping trip midnight to Monday excursion, and then the rental car excursion, I believe he was carving out as wide an area as possible to make searching as difficult as possible.

That would also be the reason for the plastic wrap in my opinion, both to keep any forensic evidence being left in their SUV and to make it as difficult as possible to detect her body. With the very chapped hands and the long amount of time gone during the time Susan disappeared, and with his landscaping orientation, I'm pretty sure he buried her just as Hans did.

What could Powell be doing buying an acetylene torch after Susan is reported missing? I'm assuming it goes along with that long rental car drive. Probably to make people think what they're thinking, and have to think about checking every closed up mine in the state. And probably she's buried in a depression in the sand somewhere.

Although I don't think the acetylene torch had anything to do with cremating Susan, (and Powell would be very wary of being seen/followed in returning to the scene of the crime), concerning the cremation of a disappeared woman, in addition to the despicable crime of Steven Avery cremating Teresa Halbach in his Wisconsin auto salvage yard, which one can understand would be harder to detect, there's the unbelievably sad cremation of the pregnant Maria Lauterbach by Cesar Laurean in his backyard in North Carolina off base housing. The remains of Maria were found in a pit in Laurean's back yard.

Concerning legitimate use of the plastic shrink wrap, in a former life when I still owned a house I kept plastic sheeting around for among other things landscaping, to lay under wood chips, gravel, stones, etc. to keep weeds from growing up through. So obviously is something he could be buying legitimately and not a smoking gun, but much more effective than a smoking gun, as we have found out all too well from these silent ex's.

rd

 

[rd_jfc]

I never saw in this thread that generator was purchased, but is being discussed as if it was. For example, was not listed as when it was purchased like the plastic wrap and torch.

Did I miss about it being purchased?

rd

 

[grayjay]

Concerning legitimate use of the plastic shrink wrap, in a former life when I still owned a house I kept plastic sheeting around for among other things landscaping, to lay under wood chips, gravel, stones, etc. to keep weeds from growing up through. So obviously is something he could be buying legitimately and not a smoking gun, but much more effective than a smoking gun, as we have found out all too well from these silent ex's.

rd

Very interesting connection here. We use black poly to preserve the top layer of wood chips, sod etc when digging out sprinkler lines so we can replace everything with as little disturbance as possible to the landscape, too.

 

[kiki the parrot]

No argument here rd_jfc... exacting revenge is no doubt the one thing at which JP excelled. :loser:

arrot:

 

[jmarple]

Could the torch have served a dual purpose? If he was carrying gasoline for the generator, he might have poured it on the body and set it on fire with the torch. Later, he used the torch for s'mores. This is so morbid.

 

[pudd]

Can preserving the strength of the legal case against Josh work against the goal, arguably more important?, of finding Susan?

RayO, while we would all like to see Susan restored to her family, it's quite likely that in all his bumbling around Josh has managed to put her somewhere that she may not be found. (Let's face it, while we'd love Susan to be alive, I think that hope is rather thin.)

If that's the case, LE will have to have a better-than-watertight case to be able to indict Josh. I feel that the best thing we can do for Susan is to make sure her killer is put away for ever, and can't influence her kids anymore.

 

[PickieChickie]

RayO, while we would all like to see Susan restored to her family, it's quite likely that in all his bumbling around Josh has managed to put her somewhere that she may not be found. (Let's face it, while we'd love Susan to be alive, I think that hope is rather thin.)

If that's the case, LE will have to have a better-than-watertight case to be able to indict Josh. I feel that the best thing we can do for Susan is to make sure her killer is put away for ever, and can't influence her kids anymore.

Why is it Mr. Cox was reported by the Salt Lake Tribune as having made an entry on the wall of the Facebook group "Friends and Family of Susan Powell" a few days ago that he believes Susan is still alive? This just baffles me.

Why isn't the family spreading around a poster with Josh Powell's face and photos of the family van and the rental car trying to find that one person who saw Josh Powell between 5:00 PM on Sunday, December 6, 2009 and 5:00 PM on Monday, December 7, 2009?

We don't even know if Josh really went sledding! And why don't they want to put any effort into finding a witness who saw Josh turn onto that desolate gravel road or pulled off on the side of the road with the back hatch to the van open?

This really baffles me! Oh, I know why. They are afraid they won't get to see their grandsons! Welll, they AREN'T getting to see their grandsons so what is going on here?

Why are they spreading Susan's face all over when good chances are nobody saw her that night because she was in the back of JP's van covered with a blanket!

 

[Tricia]

Why is it Mr. Cox was reported by the Salt Lake Tribune as having made an entry on the wall of the Facebook group "Friends and Family of Susan Powell" a few days ago that he believes Susan is still alive? This just baffles me.

Why isn't the family spreading around a poster with Josh Powell's face and photos of the family van and the rental car trying to find that one person who saw Josh Powell between 5:00 PM on Sunday, December 6, 2009 and 5:00 PM on Monday, December 7, 2009?

We don't even know if Josh really went sledding! And why don't they want to put any effort into finding a witness who saw Josh turn onto that desolate gravel road or pulled off on the side of the road with the back hatch to the van open?

This really baffles me! Oh, I know why. They are afraid they won't get to see their grandsons! Welll, they AREN'T getting to see their grandsons so what is going on here?

Why are they spreading Susan's face all over when good chances are nobody saw her that night because she was in the back of JP's van covered with a blanket!

You can't expect the family to do Police Work. And they ARE doing a lot to keep Susan's name out there and the details of the case as well.

Her case is on the news and in the paper constantly.

Also, we do not know what the police asked the family to do and not to do.

Please do not be harsh on Susan's family. They are loving, caring and devastated. The last thing they need is a stranger criticizing them in a way that makes it appear they are not doing enough.

 

[mysticrose]

Josh bought the cutting torch after Susan went missing but at the time he purchased it I don't believe he would have known everybody and their dog where looking for them. Then when he came back, he got the rental car and left the kids with his sister I think and was gone for about 24 hours right ?

The only other thing I could suspect the cutting torch to be used for would be to dismember a body I don't even like to type that but it would be quick and not as messy as other means as the cuts would be cauterized ..I am sorry to be graphic .

 

[GrandmaTo4]

The more I think about it, the more I disbelieve the whole cutting torch story. Apparently at least one of the rumors of the cutting torch purchase came from a poster on the ksl.com comments Site. As we all know, posters often tell tall tales -- and love the attention some sensational juicy bit of news can garner them. :waitasec:

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=9522814&comments=true

Quote from kls.com - my bolding

"2:20pm - Sun Jan 31st, 2010
@Big Dog Mom - Funny you should mention mine shaft. Susan dissapeared shortly after the nutty putty situation. An aquaintance of mine works at air gas in SLC. Josh purchased a cutting torch on his credit card on the Monday morning he said he was camping. The police have a copy of the receipt and can prove he lied about the camping trip. Josh's friend made note to the media that Josh had wind burned hands on Tuesday. That was not wind burn but torch burn from the cutting torch. Should someone be looking in old sealed off mine shafts for Susan? The cutting torch would have been needed to access the sealed shafts. Josh could be pretty sure these sealed off shafts would not be checked. Ever."

1) Would Joshua be even more of a dimwit than we already think he is and put a $300 cutting torch on HIS CREDIT CARD in Salt Lake City and then tell LE he was camping in the wilderness west desert?

2) Purchasing the torch in SLC on Monday morning wouldn't have given Josh much time to do anything nefarious with the torch and still be home late Monday afternoon.

3) Is it reasonable to believe that Josh still had Susan's body in the mini-van on Monday morning when he purchased the cutting torch so he could access a mine shaft to dump her?

4) What did Josh do with his two boys while he was supposedly cutting open grills on old mine shafts? Or when he was doing anything else evil with the torch? Remember, it's Monday daylight.

5) If Josh returned with a generator and a cutting torch in his van when he was supposed to be innocently *S'More-camping* with toddler boys and Mommy was MISSING -- wouldn't the police confiscate the generator and cutting torch immediately?

6) If the torch wasn't confiscated would Josh be so brazen to take a cutting torch with him in the rental van when he really had no way of knowing if he would be followed?

7) Burned hands from an acetylene cutting torch do NOT look like chapped windburned hands.

8) It takes skill, experience, energy and perseverance to successfully operate an acetylene cutting torch. Does anyone believe Josh has those characteristics?

In case anyone doesn't know the difference between a little handheld soldering type torch and a CUTTING torch, click on the links. Notice, they're big and NOT cheap.

Portable torch:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...cpc&zmam=33951326&zmas=12&zmac=112&zmap=65818

Normal size torch:
http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/m...ylene-Kits-google_pr&infoParam.campaignId=T9F

 

[PickieChickie]

The more I think about it, the more I disbelieve the whole cutting torch story. Apparently at least one of the rumors of the cutting torch purchase came from a poster on the ksl.com comments Site. As we all know, posters often tell tall tales -- and love the attention some sensational juicy bit of news can garner them. :waitasec:

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=9522814&comments=true

Portable torch:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...cpc&zmam=33951326&zmas=12&zmac=112&zmap=65818

Normal size torch:
http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/m...ylene-Kits-google_pr&infoParam.campaignId=T9F

What's the Difference: Torches
Discover the difference between propane vs. propylene gas torches for homebuilders, remodelers and plumbers
by Rob Yagid

There are three primary fuel options for torches used to solder or braze metal: propane, propylene, and acetylene.

Acetylene is expensive, burns extremely hot, and is available only in large, refillable tanks. It’s best suited for professional plumbers and those who solder and braze thousands of joints a year.

For homebuilders and remodelers who are in only occasional need of a torch, propane- or propylene-fueled units might be a better option.

Propane: With a flame temperature in air of roughly 3450°F, propane burns cooler than propylene. This can be a weakness or a strength, depending on the experience of the person using the torch.

Pros
• Inexpensive
• Less likely to overheat a joint or ignite surrounding materials
• Suitable for soldering pipe 1/8 in. to 1 in. in dia., making it an economical option for basic plumbing jobs
• Considered a forgiving torch for less skilled tradesmen and apprentices

Cons
• Takes longer to get metal hot enough to melt solder
• Does not burn hot enough to braze, which creates much stronger connections
• Can’t be used to solder large pipe and fittings
• Might not be possible to solder pipe that still contains some water, which steals heat

Cost
$3 per 16.92-oz. cylinder
Propylene

Manufacturers that once supplied MAPP gas, which has been discontinued, are now pushing propylene fuel. It has many of the same attributes as MAPP gas, including a higher price tag. However, that cost buys you greater performance.

Pros
• Has a flame temperature in air of roughly 3600°F, so it can be used to braze metal
• Burns hot enough to overcome the thermal effects of small amounts of water in plumbing lines, making it great for remodeling tasks
• Heats pipe and fittings 20% to 24% faster than propane, decreasing overall labor time
• Suitable for soldering or brazing pipe 1/8 in. to 3 in. in dia.

Cons
• Expensive
• Less forgiving than propane in terms of safety and technique

Cost
$9 per 16.92-oz. cylinder
Photo: Rodney Diaz
From Fine Homebuilding 208, pp. 80
November 12, 2009

ACETYLENE:
Acetylene is the primary fuel for oxy-fuel welding and is the fuel of choice for repair work and general cutting and welding. Acetylene gas is shipped in special cylinders designed to keep the gas dissolved. The cylinders are packed with porous materials (e.g. kapok fibre, diatomaceous earth, or (formerly) asbestos), then filled to around 50% capacity with acetone, as acetylene is acetone soluble. This method is necessary because above 207 kPa (30 lbf/in²) (absolute pressure) acetylene is unstable and may explode.

There is about 1700 kPa (250 lbf/in²) pressure in the tank when full. Acetylene when combined with oxygen burns at a temperature of 3200 °C to 3500 °C (5800 °F to 6300 °F), highest among commonly used gaseous fuels. As a fuel acetylene's primary disadvantage, in comparison to other fuels, is high cost.

As acetylene is unstable at a pressure roughly equivalent to 33 feet/10 meters underwater, water submerged cutting and welding is reserved for hydrogen rather than acetylene
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxy-fuel_welding_and_cutting

http://www.finehomebuilding.com/too...ference/torches-propane-vs-propylene-gas.aspx

 

[grayjay]

I don't know which stories are true, but I know he mentioned the generator himself. If he'd take a generator camping, then he's not much of a winter camper and as others have said not even much of a camper at all. A guy that would take a generator camping would be the same kind that would use a small torch to light a campfire. Both items could have other uses, as could a sled. Good ole Josh isn't proving to be mister nice guy after all. The shrink wrap points to a more sinister combination of these things for me, but we are still talking about things in the abstract so far. I too want to hope Susan is still alive.