Watching Motions Hearing Live on Friday 10-10-08

[Chezhire]

I don't know how Casey is feeling. People react in different ways so I really can't say. I'm saying IF Caylee is alive, there has to be a reason that Casey was not telling the truth.

Just for the sake of discussion, could you give one possible reason that she would not tell the truth and then refuse to speak?

Um...isn't there a thread for Caylee Is Alive, go here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72731
or the Is Caylee Alive Debate/Poll Thread, go here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69125
Not meaning to be snarky, but I, for one, am really not interested in getting into this and I've been getting the feeling from several posts back that this is where this discussion is heading...

 

[Gin]

That's what I'm saying... if Caylee is alive, maybe Casey is afraid that Caylee's life would be endanger.

Small children that are not cared for are in danger. Parents who don't bother to search (and notify LE) from the very moment a baby or tiny child is missing are sending a powerful message. If Caylee was going to be found alive, KC would have searched...and not shopped.

KC isn't deep. She isn't about others. She's all about KC.

And this is my last dip into gently refuting the "alive" theory. I don't buy it for a second....and the discussion does belong on it's special thread.

 

[LeLe1953]

We, well, I disklike JB so much because it is evident to me, with a legal assistant degree, that he doesn't know what the jack he's doing! He's all bluster. Even a lowly la knows it's a good idea to cite the law when you need it to argue a motion. Even a lowly la knows a good attorney doesn't stroll (he must have picked that up from KC) up to the judge with one hand in your pocket and a big stupid grin on your face.

Watching him can't even be compared to watching a train wreck..watching a train wreck should induce at least a little sympathy for the sight before your eyes. Watching JB is torure...cringe-worthy torture! Thank God the prosecution side of the bar was so prepared, professsional and on task. They were balm to my ears and eyes.

I don't know when to start the pool that bets when KC is convicted of anything that she'll start screaming "ineffective counsel"! JB couldn't be that smart, could he???

My daughter is a law student & she think "ineffective counsel" is exactly what JB is doing because he has nothing to work with. :behindbar

 

[karenc333]

Miracles and I are both saying that JB hasn't asked PROPERLY. There is a Code of Evidence and a Code of Procedure he must follow, else he gets nada. Personally, I think he expected a gratuitous "open file" discovery, to which he is NOT entitled. Go here for my lengthy explanation.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2799743#post2799743

Thanks for the explanation. I have posed this question a couple times now, but I will ask you too...do you think that there is some confusion about what evidence is associated with the child neglect charges and the evidence associated with an ongoing investigation into the possible homicide charges?

 

[Dejablue]

I agree that it is not a good thing for Casey to be wearing things that she purchased with stolen checks...if they were indeed stolen. For all we know Amy gave her permission to use them. I don't know.

You are kidding right??? You CANNOT believe that Amy told her "go ahead and write checks and clear my account and we'll lie to the bank when I get back from PR"!?!?!?!?!?!?!

You cannot be saying that!

 

[Law_girl41]

Lets say hypothetically that Casey knew a Nanny or someone else took Casey. For whatever reason, she was in fear that Caylee would be in danger if she went to LE.

Have you seen the shopping videos? How do you explain Casey's "care-free" demeanor right after she finds that someone abducted her daughter? The young women I saw in that video was focused on forging bad checks to buy for herself and her friends. Those videos convinced me that Casey had no remorse whatsoever that her child was no longer with her. The videos also convinced me that Caylee's death was not an accident.

I agree, at this stage in the game Baez hopes for those motions to be granted are dwindling down and in a way falling on deafs ear. ANd also when you speak of the hypothetical that she was in fear of going to LE...think about it, LE came to her! Weeks ago. So now what, she all of the sudden accuses LE of not helping her look for her daugher. All she had to do was ask. All LE cared about was finding the child alive & well. And for weeks her & her family stonewalled that search effort....and in more ways than you can count! Every arguement or plea in this case will not be believed because of that.

 

[pat19954]

I realize this is your honest answer.
I believe, though, that by hesitating to immediately call LE to get help for a child, the parent only exponentially increases the very real threat that the child is in grave danger or worse.

I could never in a million years take such a risk.

If someone took your child and threatened to kill them if you contacted LE would you take THAT risk. I don't think any of us can really know what we would do unless we had to make that choice for real. it is easy to say what you would do when your child is safe and secure with you. jmo

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Since I am not totally clear on exactly what Baez is going to get from all of this, will he be getting enough of the information to show him that Caylee is deceased or not?

 

[karenc333]

Actually we do know.

Question: What date/time did KC finally report tiny Caylee missing?

Answer: She never bothered to even so much as pick up the phone and make a report.

Months down the road, she wants a little space from home confinement to do some searching?? I don't think so. I'll leave this to the FBI, LE and Equusearch.

I disagree. That doesn't necessarily mean that she had no interest in finding her daughter. That only means she did not contact police and she may have had her reasons for not doing so. JMO

 

[Ames]

They're, er.... "consulting," of course!

Yes, of COURSE they are...silly me.

 

[SCSam]

Not me ... I am judging him solely on his lawyering skills ... and I am a (recovering) attorney! I believe in the constitutional right for everyone to be afforded an adequate defense ... I wish that JB were a better attorney because if he fails to provide at least an adequate defense then the resulting verdict could possibly be overturned on appeal ... making justice for Caylee even more prolonged.

"IF" the state files for capital murder, will Baez have to be replaced by a death penalty qualified attorney? :bang:

 

[karenc333]

I've tried and tried to play devil's advocate and think along those lines too, what stops me is the releease of the phone records, transcript of the LE interview with AL, the phone transcripts between KC and AL where he clearly is annoyed with her inability to see him when she wants (like Susan Smith case) and her complete lack of emotion and lies....whooa - sorry! That wound up sounding like a rant - I applaud anyone with an opinion that does not go along with the crowd....I just don't share it.

Thank you for respecting my opinion. I respect yours as well. I'm just trying to keep an open mind here that's all.

 

[karenc333]

I think you're right, and I believe he knew prior to filing his motions that the state was preparing to take it to a GJ, in fact, I think that was his motivation for finally getting off his tail and doing some real legal work.

That's a possibility too.

 

[Gin]

If someone took your child and threatened to kill them if you contacted LE would you take THAT risk. I don't think any of us can really know what we would do unless we had to make that choice for real. it is easy to say what you would do when your child is safe and secure with you. jmo

I would take that risk in a heartbeat...I love my children. I might be careful about the method I used to quickly make that call or contact, but I would never let another second go by allowing my child to be in grave risk while I just fretted and drank a diet coke.

I absolutely trust LE more than I do kidnappers or murders, and I'd want the good guys to be helping to rescue my dear child while they were still alive.

 

[*lore621*]

I disagree. That doesn't necessarily mean that she had no interest in finding her daughter. That only means she did not contact police and she may have had her reasons for not doing so. JMO

:bang:

 

[Chezhire]

SNIPPED: "... If there isn't enough to re-test, they could lose having that evidence at trial.

SNIPPED: "s...... While I believe violation of due process will be argued by the defense, I do not believe that the prosecution's evidence would be deemed inadmissible. I believe instead that the defense would be allowed to place into record the fact that they were not afforded the right to independent analysis. ..."

OneHW - To restate, and not to step on Themis' toes, Themis said the state COULD LOSE the ability to have the evidence at trial, he didn't say the state would lose said ability, and I think the reason for the hypothesis is because Themis knows we don't have any bright-line ruling from the US Supreme Court. (Feel free to correct me for explaining what I think you meant, Themis.)

Do you think there is controlling case law that Judge S will have to follow? I haven't seen any, thus my question.

 

[Salem]

The other side of the coin, is that if we are worried about future claims of ineffective assistance...then it is better to have JB file too many, too broad, motions as opposed to too few and too narrow.

That said, for any trial attorney to be on national exposure during the arguing of motions is a helluva lot of pressure on top of the pressure of a potential pending death penalty case.

I was somewhat impressed that his hands were not shaking. It gets lonely out there when one or two lawyers take on big departments filled with seasoned experts and professionals.

I have posted enough so that we all know I am not jumping up and down and defending the A family or JB for any of their antics.

But there comes a point when our legal analysis gets interwoven with our emotions over Caylee and sometimes we can be harsher than we mean to be.

I have struggled to keep this in check myself.

Baez is pushing a cart full of boulders up a very steep hill. He is well aware of that.

jmho :smoochiesmilie:

:clap::clap::clap:Great post!:clap::clap::clap:

Salem

 

[ThoughtElf]

Um...isn't there a thread for Caylee Is Alive, go here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72731
or the Is Caylee Alive Debate/Poll Thread, go here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69125
Not meaning to be snarky, but I, for one, am really not interested in getting into this and I've been getting the feeling from several posts back that this is where this discussion is heading...

TY, Chezhire. ITA

 

[Gin]

I disagree. That doesn't necessarily mean that she had no interest in finding her daughter. That only means she did not contact police and she may have had her reasons for not doing so. JMO

This discussion really does belong on the special designated alive thread with those that post on it. I'm gently letting this drop from further discussion by me on this thread.

 

[amethyst221]

You are kidding right??? You CANNOT believe that Amy told her "go ahead and write checks and clear my account and we'll lie to the bank when I get back from PR"!?!?!?!?!?!?!

You cannot be saying that!

So, again, some former friend of Casey's, who gave her a place to stay and a car to drive when she needed them, is accused of criminal acts to place the blame other than on Casey. This would mean that AH filed false reports with LE and committed all sorts of fraud or theft by false pretenses when she got the money back from the bank. This is irrational, totally conjectural, and absurdly ignores CA's history of stealing. Why would AH give Casey the entire balance of her bank account (plus the attempt to write a check for which funds were insufficient) to entertain her BF and buy herself clothes? Funny she did it all while AH was out of town. I just don't buy that she had permission.