weekend break: discuss the latest here #125

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I was reading the thread from last week when JM got his turn with ALv. Lots of posters claim she kept looking to the DT for cues and signals.

I wish JM would conduct his cross in a position blocking ALv view of the DT table. I'd like to see Wilmott object to that!
 
Famed XKCD cartoon characterizing the smug, snotty version of agnosticism:

atheists.png


Which, before you get your Ger-animals in a bunch is not, by definition, an attack on people's religion, or the lack thereof, but against people who think they get brownie points for willful indecisiveness. Worse, are people who demand a place at the table for their pet ideas no matter how many times they've been wrong and keep right on with it.

The relevance, your honors, will be apparent.

So as not to refer to any posters by name, mostly because I can't remember, I periodically see people complaining about the barely concealed contemptuous attitude some people, myself included, have towards the defense team and, as a kind of parlay, not giving proper consideration to those to adhere to the theory of defense in whole or part.

In fact, just so as not to irritate the sensitive, I will admit upfront that no one ever posted anything of the sort and I'm just making this all up, this is a work of fiction and any similarity to persons living or dead is purely coincidental.

First, even though we refer to the defense as a "team", this isn't a game. For the defendant there are life and death issues at stake and, for the victim and his family, they only got one of those options.

However, if the defense stuck to making a case for some sort of crime of passion (good luck with the premeditation) or even an attack based on an outlier physical conflict in the relationship between Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander, I might even give them a "nice try". But they haven't done that. Their strategy is to vilify the victim as a relentless abuser who, for good measure, was also a rapist and nascent pedophile. This, if you think about it, isn't so much a defense as a giving approval to an act of murder: Travis Alexander was a , he had it coming and why are you people so bent out of shape about it?

That tactic doesn't get a sporting "nice try", because it's an abomination, a concoction of people who presume everyone lacks their moral compass.

And I doubt this "defense" is Jodi Arias' "nice try". She basically had two stories: 1. I wasn't there and 2. It wasn't me.

I have no urge to parse ownership of this atrocity, but I think it's clear to me that the true facilitators of this defense are Dr. Samuels and, to a greater degree Alyce LaViolette, who fed Arias the information she needed to run through the checklist of PTSD and Battered Woman Syndrome (Aside: One thing I don't like about Martinez' questioning, was the possibility of someone thinking he was implying Battered Woman Syndrome isn't a real thing. If you want to see how a legitimately battered woman kills out of defending herself and her own, and the behaves after the fact, look up Amber Cummings).

I was in time-out at the time, but when it was revealed Alyce LaViolette gave a convention lecture of Snow White as a battered women that previously inexplicable doodle by Arias showing Snow White with a black eye made a piece fall into place with an audible thump.

I really don't care what part of the defense theory I am supposed to give deference to, because when it has come down to single disprovable facts, the defense claims have fallen apart and revealed to be inventions. Not big things, because reality is made up of little details, like whether pin shelving could support the leaping weight of a 125 lb person, the sums you get when you do the math of gas station receipts and the like.

For some bizarre reason some people seem to think that being somehow "objective" by sheer force of will even if it means they have to hold onto ideas regardless of how conter-factual they are puts them in a superior state of knowing which works something like this:

"I know many of you hold to the idea that the moon is made if igneous silicates formed when a planet-sized body has a near collision with the proto Earth, flinging ejecta into orbit that coalesced into the moon 4.5 billion years ago, but why are you so contemptuous of people who think it's made out of green cheese?"

Sorry, being "fair and balanced" for its own sake isn't a virtue depending on just how stupid one idea on the scales is and, in the case of entities like Fox News claims of objectivity are just a cover for being completely partisan.

You know who wants "equal time" and "teaching the controversy?" Creationists, that's who, because forced equivalency is the only way they can keep from losing. Actual scientists, people who do the hypothetical-deductive model for a living and are used to the idea of rejecting ideas for which there is no evidence have no problem letting it come down to an intellectual fight to the death. Hopefully we can include fact finders such as law enforcement and juries in that ideal.

So, yes, I understand how people like their opinions and how some people who like their opinions resort to tone-policing and cries of incivility as they claw their way off the cliff. And, no, I won't come right out and go ad hominem ----- which is not, as some think, "name calling", but irrelevant name calling. Calling Jodi Arias a liar whose claims should be judged as coming from a liar isn't ad hominem, it's inductive probability based on past experience or, to think of it this way, the probability Jodi Arias will lie tomorrow is about the same as the sun rising, if we can go by past experience -- on people, but I do reserve the right to call ideas unfounded, stupid or just plain evil. Whether the person making them is stupid or evil can only be implied.

Asking for unwarranted consideration of the defense case for Travis Alexander being an abuser, a pedophile, a user of women, a sex deviant who had it coming isn't being objective, it's being recalcitrant in the fact of fact because, regarding all of the above, their just no freaking evidence for it except the narrative of a known liar as filtered through some mercenary ideologue expert witnesses in the pay of a defense team who even John Wayne Gacy in his clown outfit would think is kind of tacky.

If rejecting things for which there's not only no evidence, but a lot of countering evidence, makes me close-minded in some people's eyes, I will just have to shed a little tear and live with it.

Variously attributed to many, including Carl Sagan: "We should keep an open mind, but that doesn't mean our minds should be so open that our brains fall out".

Hear-hear-- especially Carl Saga's quote.:rocker:
 
Makes me think she was up to her eyeballs in some "other" trubble...
Owed someone $$$
Something from years before in Cali?

(Not that her killing TA connected or anything)
She quit her job so IMO she was going to run.
I'm not sure she was gonna knock anyone else off 1st.maybe.

Maybe she was living out some other fantasy life before?
I know she said she had never killed anyone before but that is just such an odd thing to say!!!

She had clearly physically abused other people.
I also believe MANY people are scared of her and will not speak
unless she is locked up for good, perhaps they never will say a word...

shudder..

I find it strange that none of the ex-boyfriends are talking to the media for their 15 minutes. It seems like they are lying low. I agree that there could be a history of criminal activity with the ex's. During JM's cross of JA he asked her a strange question if she had filed income taxes, then quickly moved on. JA had a "deer in the headlight" look when he asked that question. I hope he brings it up in closing, I would love to know what he discovered.

Average people also don't tape guns inside the engines of vehicles. I would'nt even know where to start to look for a place to do this.
 
You can't see Travis's right arm at all in the last shower pic where you just see his body, and just the side of his left. I wonder if JA had made him put his hands behind his head or something.
 
I've actually wondered if maybe he was standing when she stabbed him in the heart and he slid down to a sitting position in response. The way his arms are covering his chest appear like a defensive posture to me. ITA with the rest.
The way ALV sped through the murder and shut down conversation about that and what followed by telling JM that she had been hired for the DV and nothing else, do you think it's possible she's never seen the autopsy photos?? I'm wondering if that's how she can be so arrogant in her claims that TA not JA was the abuser.

IIRC the fatal stab wound to the chest was inflicted at a slightly upward angle, according to the ME. That would be more consistent, imo, with both of them being in a standing position.
 
Yes those are water droplets from the shower, not on the glass.. high shutter speed is all it takes to catch them.. not water rolling down the door

Take a look at the middle pic... there are droplets of water. To me that means the shower door is closed. moo

seven.jpg
 
I was watching old testimony last night too and was pondering the Freemans as well. Dan is definitely a little geeky but did seem very straight forward in his answers. His sister however clearly did not want to be there and was dodging questions... at least that's how it appeared to me.

I can totally see where Jodi was injecting herself in to the Freeman family and god knows how she would have used them somewhere down the line.

I think he wanted Jodi and Desiree wanted Travis.
 
Definitely written for consumption to show that she had no motive whatsoever to kill Travis. Before or after, like you said. I have come to believe that her plans to kill Travis started earlier then May, most likely in February when Travis told her that he met his future wife, Mimi.
One thing that has baffled me, though. I know we can't believe anything JA says, but she talks about losing her phone in her grandpa's car, I believe. I would have put money on her thrashing it myself but apparently the aunt found the phone in the car when they were cleaning it out to sell it, or something, so the phone really was there and I doubt JA left it there intentionally. If she really did lose the phone how could she blackmail Travis with the sex tape recording? Did she transfer it to something else, like a CD? Or, another possibility is she back dated the journal entry. She really wrote it after June 4 and put an earlier date on it to prove her lies. It would be important that this would be before May 26, when Travis went off on her because it is said that his reason for being so upset is because she hacked into his Facebook or email or something and this way she can say that she didn't have the password after May 22nd because they agreed to change their passwords.
ETA I just noticed her comment about this being in alignment with the email she sent him a few days earlier. Obviously she said that as if saying, look, I have proof I was over him, I even sent him an email about it. Which leads me to feel that this really was written May 22nd with murder on her mind.

BBM

I totally agree that it was fabricated for consumption for AFTER the body was found. No wonder she said to Flores--" Did you find my journals?'

I love the part where she talks about how utterly embarrassing that stuff was that was left on her 'lost' cell---But wow, lookie, there it is--we 'found' it.

She is so sickingly transparent.

I am so happy that she wrote those bald faced lies in there after the fact. The ones like : " Oh no, my good friend is gone. I don't even know how he died."


Once the jury hears those entries, and I sure hope they do, then they have to discount everything else in that 'journal.' That entry proves that she wrote things in there with the LE in mind. :cop: So everything else she wrote has to now be suspect.
 
I find it strange that none of the ex-boyfriends are talking to the media for their 15 minutes. It seems like they are lying low. I agree that there could be a history of criminal activity with the ex's. During JM's cross of JA he asked her a strange question if she had filed income taxes, then quickly moved on. JA had a "deer in the headlight" look when he asked that question. I hope he brings it up in closing, I would love to know what he discovered.

Average people also don't tape guns inside the engines of vehicles. I would'nt even know where to start to look for a place to do this.

Good points. To begin with, the question regarding income taxes infers some illegal activity involving money not claimed on one's tax return. The gun taped inside the engine compartment of a rental vehicle is most odd, as it would only be useful when pulled over to the side of the road with the hood up. Any other situation and it certainly couldn't be used for protection. And even more strange, is immediately after allegedly killing a boyfriend in self-defense, she purchases a gun. Wouldn't she be fearful of guns if she really had been forced to fire Travis' gun in order to save her own life?

:waitasec:

MOO
 
If rejecting things for which there's not only no evidence, but a lot of countering evidence, makes me close-minded in some people's eyes, I will just have to shed a little tear and live with it.

Variously attributed to many, including Carl Sagan: "We should keep an open mind, but that doesn't mean our minds should be so open that our brains fall out".

Respectfully snipped by me

ITA with you. No evidence = in may have happened. Lots of countering evidence = it didn't happen.

LOL! Love Sagan!
 
I think JA needed sex to "calm down"! Not Travis!!:blushing:


Travis said : "There are times when you've looked miserable and I've still, like, raped you..."
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/02/jodi-arias-murder-trial-phone-sex-victim-travis-alexander/

Attention, Ladies: Semen Is An Antidepressant

"Vaginal exposure to semen elevates women's mood. ... would have to absorb compounds in semen that affected the women's pheromones."

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201101/attention-ladies-semen-is-antidepressant

Crying Over Spilled Semen
Why women who don't use condoms feel happier.


"The finding that women who do not use condoms during sex are less depressed and less likely to attempt suicide than are women who have sex with condoms and women who are not sexually active, leads one researcher to conclude that semen contains powerful—and potentially addictive—mood-altering chemicals."

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200210/crying-over-spilled-semen
 
Teacher and her student.

Perhaps I missed it, however has it come in as testimony how many hours ALV has worked with JA prior to either of them testifying? If at all?

:waitasec:

44 hours or 11k worth in interviews with JA.
 
Has it been discussed that the first shower photos looked like they were taken without flash....bit the last two had flash...thus blinding Travis...the one where he is facing the camera...and the one were he is already on the floor of the shower...

It's been discussed endlessly. They were all likely taken with a flash since indoor photos have to be taken with the flash, and Jodi would know that. A lot of the photos don't look very bright or clear because they had to extract them after having been deleted and the memory card and camera went through a washing machine cycle. It was explained in court that the reason for so many of the photos not looking so good was because of the difficulty in forensically extracting them some of which were only thumbnails that had to be blown up. It has nothing to do with how the photos were taken but the difficulty in extracting them. I'm amazed that all of them didn't come out as indistinct blobs of colors.
 
When ALV made the comment "if i still have one when i get back" In reference to them asking if she was in private practice..

I think she meant she might not have one because of how long this was taking. Not because there would be back lash. I could be wrong!
 
I find it strange that none of the ex-boyfriends are talking to the media for their 15 minutes. It seems like they are lying low. I agree that there could be a history of criminal activity with the ex's. During JM's cross of JA he asked her a strange question if she had filed income taxes, then quickly moved on. JA had a "deer in the headlight" look when he asked that question. I hope he brings it up in closing, I would love to know what he discovered.

Average people also don't tape guns inside the engines of vehicles. I would'nt even know where to start to look for a place to do this.

I don't find it strange at all. If one of my exes committed a brutal murder and went on to become the most hated man in America I don't see myself going on a press tour. I would be horrified, humiliated, and ashamed of my association with him.
 
Yes those are water droplets from the shower, not on the glass.. high shutter speed is all it takes to catch them.. not water rolling down the door

My husband said Travis was in a mans defensive position in the last photo in the shower. He said a man would protect his junk and Travis was with his legs crossed. If he'd just slid down and was sitting why cross his legs? The shower door was open in that one and he said he didn't see Travis just sitting there and not trying to get out. He said that is what startled Jodi. He managed to get out of there.

Just a male observation.
 
I think there are as many possible scenarios as thoughts hahaha. I still believe she stabbed him first (but that is because of the ME testimony and the fact that I am a nurse and his testimony makes the most sense to me medically speaking.)

I also don't think Travis looked scared in that last photo.. but that is just me... I don't think the man knew what hit him when it happened. Jmhoo of course.:twocents:

Now Nurse...I thought you were on the fence about the gsf?:fence:
 
Just read a post by someone being critical of the DT being put down all the time.

I think the reason there is so much hostility towards the DT is because of the incredulous and unbelievable story they've advanced in defending their client. It defies logic that JW and KN actually believe what they've put forth to the jury.

That is what gets everyone so riled up IMO.

A defense attorney forces the state to prove its case. That's a very important role because without defense attorneys the prisons would be filled with ham sandwiches.

That said, I get extremely annoyed when any defense attorney shovels such a load of bs (as in this case e.g.) that they've gone beyond their role of forcing the state to prove its case and wandered into some fantasy land that no reasonably intelligent person could possibly believe, just to "win" at all costs.

Had the DT in this case gone with a diminished capacity defense I'd have more respect for them (still wouldn't buy it, but it would have been more plausible than the bs put forth so far).

They chose to go a route that is trying to hoodwink the jury, knowing full well that what they've advanced is nothing but bs.

I've no respect for the DT in this case, none whatsoever.

And that's MO. :seeya:

I agree with you 100%.....JMO but JW is worse than KN in my book. Both perpetuate the stigma of 'defense attorneys'. They both IMO play as dirty as possible, I know more than a few DA's who really believe in the law...they believe every one deserves the best defense possible. But they also have scruples and morals and would not hesitate to not take a case, or quit, if they felt the person was lying. Or if they can see being in a position, by taking a case, that their personal moral standards would be compromised by doing so. I will reference Mark Nejame. He represented the Anthony's because he felt they needed representation considering all the media attention they brought upon themselves. But the moment he was put in a position of his morals being compromised he quit. He went on to represent Tim Miller and Texas Equusearch pro bono because he believe in Tim and Equusearch and what they stood for. Both JW and KN seem to be willing to trash anyone and anything to win the case. I wonder how they sleep at night. I wonder IF they have children, what they are showing their children about morals and truth. I hope Travis' memory and what they have tried to do to him haunt them for the rest of their lives.
 
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