weekend discussion: discuss the trial here #154

[Truth Detector]

Do you hear this exchange?! :help:

JW: Just so we're clear, you don't have any medical evidence of (the bullet) passing through the brain, right?

Dr. H: It HAD to have passed through the brain.

JW: You don't have any medical evidence of that, do you?

Dr. H: I do, uh, the skull is perforated where the brain is, so it HAD to have passed through the brain. The brain is there.

JW: Well...but you have no idea...you have no medical evidence of how far or what part of the brain (the bullet) exactly would have hit, right?

Dr. H: It would have passed through the right frontal lobe, I just don't have any evidence of hemorrhage now because of decomposition. But it HAD to have passed through the brain because of the part of the skull that was injured. The brain in a young person especially, is flush against that structure. The brain occupies that entire skull. So to have a hole in the skull here (pointing to forehead), and an exit in here (pointing near sinus), it HAS to pass through the brain.

JW: Uh-huh....so....

She continues with this-

JW: Are you sure of this (bullet passing through the brain)?

Dr. H: (incredulous) YES.

Unbelievable. You cannot make this **** up. :facepalm:

This was the exchange where JW asks whether the bullet could have "just grazed the tip of the brain."

You know.

The 'tippocampus'...

 

[Maryann123]

Camera expert's testimony:

Jodi Arias Murder Trial Day 6 not Complete. NSFW, Graphic photos, Warning! My apologies - YouTube


I took the testimony of the camera expert, (Michael Melendez) and dissected it. I've had a lot of questions about those pictures, and decided to find out just how long the photo session lasted, and the interval between the snap shots. I found it most interesting that the camera came to the lab with the button used to snap the pictures, being loose and wobbly. It actually fell off in the examiners hands. Another note of interest is... the button is made of rubber. I think that makes it easier for the floor to grip it, and make inadvertent pictures. The button is definitely raised up higher than most cameras I'm used to dealing with. The witness testified that the ceiling picture was taken while the camera was held..... right-side up. The next two pictures were made while the camera was completely upside down. So, if someone stepped on the camera, pictures would be snapped. Meaning, it could have been kicked, or stepped on.

The shower photo session only lasted 8 minutes and 50 seconds before Travis was attacked. Twenty three (23) photos were admitted into evidence, and I believe the testimony says all had been deleted by someone. Evidence # 152 was skipped. It was never mentioned, never shown on camera, and no dates or times were given for it. That number was just skipped over. I think that could be important. Evidence photo #160 was referenced with a date and time, but not shown on camera.

The twenty three photos were taken in this interval.
(12 sec), (18 sec), (6 sec),( 24 sec), (6 sec), (1 min), (18 sec),( 4 sec),( 4 sec),( 4 sec), (photo skipped) (1 min 56 sec), (16 sec), ( 6 sec), (10 sec) ,( 1 min 26 sec), (18 sec), (8 sec), (1 min 10 sec), (44 sec).
Evidence photo #162 (Travis's body and Jodi's leg) was taken outside the shower 62 sec after the ceiling photo, and evidence photo #163 (baseboard) was taken 1 min 16 sec after the bloody dragging photo.

Evidence photo # 151 taken at 5:25:00 appears to me to have water droplets on the lens, and the expert witness testified it could be water droplets. If Travis had concerns about the water getting on his lens, maybe he would have said something to Jodi about it, not wanting to ruin his new camera. (That was probably Jodi's idea of Travis attacking her) Between that photo and the next one, there is an interval of 1 min 56 seconds. During that time, I believe another picture was taken, (evidence photo # 152) but never shown. Since it was never admitted into evidence, I don't know if you can call it an evidence photo, but #152 was skipped over when evidence was admitted. I believe Jodi took a towel, and wiped the water off the camera, and while doing that, she accidentally took another photo that ended up being a dark blob which was the inside of the towel, and never introduced into evidence. The next picture extracted from the camera had no water droplets on the lens. That's the reason I believe there is a gap of nearly 2 minutes between pictures.

The other gaps of longer than a minute, could possibly be the time she was gathering her "killer" tools. With the cabinet door being opened, I can't help but wonder if that glass/cup she retrieved could have been used to throw something caustic into his eyes. There is a good reason that Travis couldn't fight her off, and I believe that is a real possibility. I wish I knew what else was under that cabinet! Drano, toilet cleaner, etc. And the only clean up Jodi attempted was to get rid of that evidence, and possibly her own blood. It has never made sense to me that Jodi attempted to clean the crime scene. Way too much blood, but it makes perfect sense to wash off Travis' body if she is washing off evidence of something she used to incapacitate him.

If you have time over the weekend, you gotta watch the video of the camera experts testimony. It answered a lot of questions I had.

 

[Paintr]

This girl and her horrible crime have done so much collateral damage to so many innocent people and new victims never seem to end.

ALV basically put domestic violence back years with her outdated approach that she further warped by unscientifically and unprofessionally insisting that this killers behavior was due somehow to her being a victim of alleged and undocumented domestic violence - and speciously tying her to anecdotal evidence of actual victims - instead of that of an angry, immature stalker that drove TA to distraction with her awful behavior.

Unfortunately, many folks out there will not really understand that the only relevance of Jodi's personality disorder diagnosis in this trial is to basically refute her claim of PTSD from an alleged abusive relationship (which has no other corroboration and is her only supporting claim for self-defense) and nothing else. I feel for those who share that diagnosis and must feel profiled and demeaned by sharing it with her.

While her personality disorder may have created challenges for her in maintaining healthy relationships it in no way was the reason she decided to kill Travis. That decision was one that a person without a personality disorder could have made as well and it should not be looked at as a cause because that is patently unfair to all those who are coping with and successfully living their lives with the same disorder.

It is yet another reason that makes me question the ethics of putting mitigating factors into the guilt phase and not in the sentencing phase where they belong.

I also share the concern over that "bear vs. tiger" juror question and ardently hope that person either does not make the cut in the lottery for the final 12 jurors or, if they do, the rest of the jurors jar some sense into his or her hippocampus. A more accurate analogy would have been "if a person fabricates a bear attack, and they switch to describing it as a tiger attack is it any more credible?"

:goodpost: And remember the rest of rebuttle or closing statements could give jurors more insight or confirm some doubt they have. We won't know 'till they vote.

 

[Harmony 2]

Discussion about the news in Boston belongs in the thread linked below:

Terrorist Attack at Boston Marathon #5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[YESorNO]

yall all know the way she lifts her cup to drink water aggravates me to no end. watching the interrogation tapes and she totally drinks from the water bottle normal. no weird elbow thing

And with RIGHT hand, don't you know. :liar:

I don't believe she's ambi-dex; she just wants everyone to look at

:steamed: her "broken finger".

 

[Dana]

yes,i feel completely and utterly abused by their "mean words"
i now feel i am 100% justified to go and slaughter one of these people :seeya: :facepalm:

i am one million percent joking everyone :floorlaugh::fence:

But doesn't it really mess with your head that here's a woman who viciously, heinously slaughtered a man in cold blood and their thought is "he deserved it" hwow: THOSE people scare me. I think they have the same psychological problems as JA! All one has to do is look at the autopsy photos and wonder what kind of monster does something like that.

 

[leebee52]

And with RIGHT hand, don't you know. :liar:

I don't believe she's ambi-dex; she just wants everyone to look at

:steamed: her "broken finger".

Speaking of, I sure would love to see an expert wit concerning that supposed broken finger.

 

[audreyparker]

The impression I got from that question was regarding Samuels' test results. He had said that even though she was attacked by a stranger but it was actually Travis, the test results are still valid. I think the juror wanted to know if the bear/tiger scenario would be as valid. I think the juror wanted Dr. DeMarte to answer a question about the test validity without directly asking. There were very few questions asked and none of them were asking about her expertise in battered women's syndrome.

I honestly believe they don't think she was battered and wanted clarification on whether or not PTSD can wipe out five hours of memory (which the doctor said no).

This post is great. I have to admit that I was a little worried when I heard this question but your answer makes sense. I think these jurors are very sharp and have paid great attention to the previous testimony.

Plus, JM still has to finish his rebuttal case as well as do his closing argument. I really think he is going to tie everything up nicely. I have a feeling his closing is going to be masterful!

 

[sammijo]

Hi everyone. Had to get away from hearing Wilmot yesterday before court ended, I was just toooo disgusted. Can't help but feel that her cross of JD was a payback for ALV.
I watched JVM last night, not too bad and was hoping NG would be good but not even. Someone needs to scream at NG. Every time she would go back to the court room she would then come back as a popup and butt in to insert her own commentary and talk over what was going on in court. Dr. Drew was better thank goodness. I swear, after this trial is over, I will NEVER watch HLN again.

ITA!! So much for HLN's promise that you'll "never miss a minute of this trial".

Nancy Grace talked over several juror questions and the one and only follow-up question from Mr. M.

Then earlier this week, she disregarded the trial completely and Dr. Drew had to show it all through his show. So I ended up having to watch until 9pm CST.

I wish they would bump her back to 9 or 10 o'clock so trial coverage would be totally done for the day before she comes on.

 

[swan366]

I forget you're not American - 'til u use the word rubbish.

Oh my. I use that term a lot, and I'm born and bred in the USA. Am I really the only American who uses that term? Anyone, anyone.... ;(

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Arias claims she didn't remember stabbing and slicing Travis. If that were true, how would she know she needed to take the knife with her to dispose of it? She evidentially remembers taking the rope - and that didn't even exist! LOL

 

[leebee52]

Oh my. I use that term a lot, and I'm born and bred in the USA. Am I really the only American who uses that term? Anyone, anyone.... ;(

I bet JA does...haha.

 

[aa9511]

First of all - WELCOME!

I am so glad to see your post because I have been talking/thinking about those very SAME questions since I heard them. I've been saying that I think there is one juror, at least, who is buying into JA's story, DESPITE the fact that it doesn't make sense. It makes me nervous for a hung jury, but not an acquittal. I think the vast majority of the jury questions sounds like they are leaning towards guilty. But, you are right. There is always at least one question that sounds like it's leaning JA's way. I just hope that they are playing devil's advocate and/or that person doesn't end up deliberating. Because, IF they are really buying into JA's story, their critical thinking is severely compromised. I also think we have to remember that JA isn't alone. There are others out there who thinks the way that she does. God forbid we end up with someone on the jury who thinks that the stuff JA did was just "normal stalking" and signs of someone who, simply, wasn't ready to move on... Then, we're in trouble. :facepalm:

Thanks to you and others for your warm welcomes! I love this site and would go crazy without it for this trial!
You guys have made me feel a little better about this juror/jurors. I will try to just keep an open mind until the end, and have faith in them that they can see what I so clearly see. I know the majority, based on the questions, feel like we do.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

This was the exchange where JW asks whether the bullet could have "just grazed the tip of the brain."

You know.

The 'tippocampus'...

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Blue-Eyed Butcher,Susan Wright story..WOW that was something

You all love Juan, well most of you...but I think Kelly Siegler is the very best prosecutor there is!!!JMO

She is my favorite female Prosecutor but I think Juan is the best all around Prosecutor imo.

What made that case memorable was the bed scene in the courtroom. Some courts don't go into all that kind of drama and Judges will disallow it.

imo

 

[swan366]

ITA!! So much for HLN's promise that you'll "never miss a minute of this trial".

Nancy Grace talked over several juror questions and the one and only follow-up question from Mr. M.

Then earlier this week, she disregarded the trial completely and Dr. Drew had to show it all through his show. So I ended up having to watch until 9pm CST.

I wish they would bump her back to 9 or 10 o'clock so trial coverage would be totally done for the day before she comes on.

I HAVE to believe that HLN has figured out that this pause and play system is an embarrassing failure. I can't imagine that some network officials thought this was actually a good and profitable idea. The fact that they don't point out that the coverage is very much delayed at times is blatant misrepresentation, especially when they say "live" when the analysts are talking. It is slightly better than having no coverage at all, and I realize they have to squeeze sponsors in to pay the bills, but I'd much rather they do it the old way...during sidebars and lunch breaks.

Can you tell I'm still in mourning for Court TV?

 

[nells]

Any ideas on what today's (Friday) closed hearing was about?

 

[Sleuth5]

Lol, I have been sick all week so I actually do have an excuse, but I still did a rush job on the dishes just now.

So you're the culprit! I just came down with a bug. I knew I shouldn't have been reading your posts!

 

[irishnate]

Let me say that I do not think it was every JD's intention to make JW look like a goof. JW did that to herself and just did not learn the first time JD corrected her (in a nice way). I think JW and JA dressing alike in court was probably not a good idea for JW. Not sure why she would do something like that when she knows Jodi has a personality disorder. The giggling at what appears to be jurors as they exit between the two women is inappropriate for an attorney. I seen it happen more than once.

As far as Nurmi, because of his height I think he may have some issues with his legs. It's not just his weight it appears he has other issues which may contribute to his having a problem getting around. He has had a problem walking up to the bench on more than one occasion. I have a grandson who is 6' 6" and this happened to him where he just grew too fast and everything was stretched to the max in a short period of time. He walks very similar as if it's an effort and uncomfortable. They can do surgery but he refused to have it done. So it is possible Nurmi may have some issues moving around because he has some leg issues.

I agree with Lampchop on Nurmi. I realize it is easy to pick on the DT for alot of things. Mainly because they are defending JA. We all want justice for Travis and both Nurmi and Willmott are in an essence standing in the way. I think it has been proven that Nurmi didn't want the case and wanted to be released from the case in the early stages but was denied. But he has an obligation to see that JA has the best defense that he and Willmot can provide. Like most ppl, I get tired of him always trying to get mistrial but I think he is doing everything that he can to defend JA for his own protection when she files for appeal. (and JA will)
I have been critical of the DT for being unprofessional and more importantly "Unprepared" Seriously, they didn't know about her filling up the third gas can in Utah? It was in her bank reciepts...if they did their job they would have known that. Or even followed up on JA claiming she returned the third can to Wal-mart. I wonder if they thought that JM wouldn't investigate that.
It is difficult to see how this trial has effected Nurmi and Willmott personal life's as well. Its bad enough that JA has been deemed the most hated women since Casey Anthony but having to defend JA can't be easy.
I will probably get flamed for the post, but In spite of the DT unprofessional actions from time to time and being unprepared, I refuse to pile on negative criticism that other people post about.
They are two lawyers that are defending a murdering defendant. They have a "deck" stacked against them and I see them doing the best that they can. I am def not saying they are doing a great job but when you are going against the mountain of evidence that stands against JA and knowing you are going against a "bulldog" of a prosecutor how perfect can you be?
I personally think that all four, Judge Stephens, Juan, Willmott and Nurmi will be relieved when this trial is over.
This, of course, Is just my opionion and I realized that this case has brought ALOT of emotions out here on WS. It has brought alot of emotions out of me as well.
If you want to disagree with me or flame this post, that is anyones right I have no problem with that, but I just have a difficult time joining everyone else's criticism of two lawyers. Peace all WS..i love the site and everyone post

 

[lil_buddy]

Maybe while Nurmi is sitting there in his mind he is compiling a list of pedophiles and rapists that were more likeable than JA.

ETA: and easier to work with, and more honest.