Were TH and/or Kyron really at Skyline on Friday, June 4?

[CCup]

Not discounting your theory, but I think in a situation where a child goes missing on that day, then most parents, teachers, and some children are going to remember if they saw them or not. Just saying. When something that crucial happens, most people are going to make it a point to remember.

I think that the parents are more likely to remember seeing him that morning. Most kids can't remember what they had for lunch, so I doubt they could remember with a 100% certainty that they saw Kyron. It's not like he sat next to his desk mate that day or sat at the lunch table with 5 other kids. If any other kids saw him, they saw him in passing.

Also I was just thinking about the picture of Kyron's friend and his science project. I was thinking that one way to verify when that picture was taken is to ask that child's mother or teachers or students or even that kid, what he wore to school on Friday.

 

[Reality Orlando]

Respectfully edited. This assumes that Ms. Zimmerman was in Kyron's classroom that morning and saw Ms. Horman take the photo of the boy with his science project. Did the PTA president have a child of her own in Kyron's class? How is it that she happened to be in the same classroom as Ms. Horman when the photo was taken? Was Ms. Zimmerman helping her own child set up his/her science project?

I have a lot of questions and concerns about this particular aspect of the case and am looking for answers much like everyone else who is following this case. My thoughts and prayers are with Kyron's family.

"He's not the type of child who would just go out of school and go wandering around," said Zimmerman, whose 8-year-old daughter is in Kyron's class and has known the boy for three years."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/search_for_missing_portland_bo.html

 

[Reality Orlando]

I'm confused :waitasec:

The picture that was posted where Kyron was "cut out" the exhibit is different. I couldn't find the picture of him standing in front of his exhibit (the famous one of him). Where did that cut out picture come from? I have attached a side by side of the two (very) different exhibits.

The second picture is his friend's exhibit. You can see it in the upper left corner in the pic of Kyron's exhibit pic.

 

[Wendy101]

I also am not convinced that Kyron was there with TH that Friday morning, especially after reading this statement in this CNN article..


<The boy's stepmother, Terri Horman, said she last saw Kyron walking down the hallway towards his classroom at Skyline Elementary School, police said. Cell phone records indicate she may not have been at the school at that time, according to a report in People Magazine. Authorities refused to comment on the report.>



BBM..I have read speculation that she may have not been there at all that morning, and that cell pings later in the day put her at SI, but is this the first time we've seen speculation that she was NOT at the school saying her good-bye to Kyron at 8:45 am??? Hmmmm....

(hope I posted the link correctly, first time..sorry!)
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/21/oregon.missing.boy.letter/index.html?hpt=Sbin

Just bouncing off your post to use the article you posted...

IMO: There were adults that reported seeing her that morning with Kyron...

Now that this is released about HER cell phone, only leads me to believe that someone else had her cell phone, she can not be in 2 places at once.

I also don't think the school officials would lie about seeing her or not.

 

[Reality Orlando]

Ok I found the picture of him at the science fair.

Can someone please tell me where the cut out picture came from and why it is made to look like Kyron's picture? Clearly whoever began circulating this image is sending misinformation purposely as they cut out a shape similar to his shape in the regular picture. See attached.

The other child was "blacked out" so as not to post a picture of the child IMO. That's Kyron's friend...not Kyron.

 

[BeanE]

You're right, Zimmerman was quoted as saying she saw Kyron getting his picture taken that morning. The really weird thing is, that quote (among others of hers) are no longer in the news article.
Here's the original segment at
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...rtland_bo.html
Now the article at the same link has no mention at all of Zimmerman seeing Kyron or Terri on Friday morning.

I noticed that earlier today. It's still in the timeline though, that was updated today:


8:15 a.m. Gina Zimmerman, president of the school PTA, arrives and sees Kyron with his stepmother in front of his exhibit.

Updated: Monday, June 21, 2010, 11:44 AM
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_chronology_of_eve.html

Let's see if that disappears. Would be interesting.

 

[Calliope]

Just bouncing off your post to use the article you posted...

IMO: There were adults that reported seeing her that morning with Kyron...

Now that this is released about HER cell phone, only leads me to believe that someone else had her cell phone, she can not be in 2 places at once.

I also don't think the school officials would lie about seeing her or not.

And the CNN article sources People which sources WW which obtained their information 3rd hand from anonymous people not connected to the case who talked to anonymous people not connected to the case.

She had initially told police she watched Kyron walk to his classroom on June 4 after the two attended a science fair at Skyline Elementary in Portland, Ore. But law enforcement sources, who are not directly involved with the investigation, tell the local newspaper that Horman's story does not match her cell phone records, which reportedly reveal she may have been on nearby Sauvie Island.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20395256,00.html

But they are treating it as Gospel.



My God.

 

[Calliope]

I noticed that earlier today. It's still in the timeline though, that was updated today:


8:15 a.m. Gina Zimmerman, president of the school PTA, arrives and sees Kyron with his stepmother in front of his exhibit.

Updated: Monday, June 21, 2010, 11:44 AM
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_chronology_of_eve.html

Let's see if that disappears. Would be interesting.

I emailed the reporter and asked him why this story was edited to remove that information. I'll post his reply.

If he comes back referencing those unnamed 3rd-hand sources from WW, I'm gonna scream.

 

[TxLady2]

I cannot justify discounting several eyewitnesses who say they DID see Kyron with Terri that morning. One might be confused about it, but three? I don't think so. Also Kyron's friend who says he saw him in the hallway... just because he is a child does not make his statement not believable. Children sometimes make good witnesses.

I think one thing LE is wanting to know is if anyone saw Kyron leaving with her. That could be very crucial, because she claims he was supposed to be at school all day. Or if just one person comes forward and states that they saw him with her later in the day... that blows her right out of the water.

 

[oxymoran]

The one thing that bugs me...and creates doubt as to Terry's time of arrival is the fact that Kaine Horman wrote the following on Sunday June 6 ...in an Email that was widely circulated at Intel.

"He was dropped off at school about 8:45 and went missing sometime between then and 9 or 9:30am. We did not know he was not at school until we went to get him off of the bus at 3:30 and he was nowhere to be found."

http://ackerlaw.com/posts/2010/06/07/missing_child__kyron_horman_7

 

[SusieMom]

Yes, I think all the proof makes it clear that they were BOTH there... and that is the primary reason I cannnot believe that the SM could have done it.

I can see something happening during the touring of the exhibits that might have made her furious enough to march him out of there and into the car. I have a 7 yr old son, so I even know what that hypothetically could have likely been..... a potty accident. Yes, even 7 year old boys when they are really excited and especially when their normal routine is broken can have "accidents" and they are INFURIATING for parents to deal with b/c we feel like all the kid had to do was say "I need to go pee" but they CHOOSE not to, till its too late. I know my son has this knuckle-headed idea that nobody can tell when he goes "a little" in his pants. When in truth, EVERYBODY can tell. I can tell you that it makes me see red every time and I'm not a short-tempered person. And, yes, my mortification would be so severe that I would, in that situation, probably load him up and take him home, hopefully stopping to tell the teacher but possibly not. It is the one sure fire thing in our family that will turn a everybody's happy picture perfect outing into a parents are seething silent drive home with somebody in big trouble. It only takes that one momentary thing.. and its seems the more "important" the event, the more angry it makes you as parents. Its not pretty, I know, and I'm not proud to even talk about my emotional response to something many people would find trivial, but there it is.

However, I WOULD cool down before we got home, believe me... but maybe in my purely speculative scenario, she didn't. But there are still 2 issues that can't be worked around... 1. Who had baby K? That person would have to know that something caused her to take longer than she had originally planned... a LOT longer or that person would know her state of mind when she came to fetch baby K if it were between leaving the school and whatever happened. 2. Even if she knew she got gotten Kyron out of the school without being interruped she had no idea that nobody saw her. Not having been called would have been, IMO, a likely sign that somebody HAD seen me leave with him. Its a building with windows, people coming and going. All it would have taken is one person to say they saw her leaving with him to point the finger right at her. Even a stupid and desperate person would have thought of that and came up with a better story... he disappeared from his bedroom, was taken from the vehicle at the grocery store, etc... something besides a story that she could not have known was going to hold any water at all.

As long as I'm certain they were there, I have to say its pretty far-fetched that she had anything to do with.

 

[Reality Orlando]

I still want info on the electricity experiment he told his friend he was going to see. I'm really trying to figure that one out. Where did the friend come up with that if it wasn't true? Why? Did he see him or not?

 

[TxLady2]

If we are not to trust the people who say they saw both Terri and Kyron... then why trust the "sources who are not involved in the investigation?"
Sometimes people, even in LE who are not a part of the investigation, will state something as a fact when it is just a guess. They like to feel important. If they are not involved, they should not make ANY statement regarding the case.
Also, reporters are notorious for asking questions, and twisting the answers, adding or leaving out a word, just so it will sound different and more newsworthy.

 

[oxymoran]

SusieMom: respectfully I can tell that you have a logical/rational mind...which you are using to project your likely actions onto this disappearance.

I would like to suggest that people who commit the most heinous of crimes are not wired in the same way as you. Even if the perp acts in a so-called "cold , premeditated" manner, it does not mean to say the rules of logic would match the rules you would apply. IMO thats where traditional rational analysis breaks down.

 

[Tzedek]

The one thing that bugs me...and creates doubt as to Terry's time of arrival is the fact that Kaine Horman wrote the following on Sunday June 6 ...in an Email that was widely circulated at Intel.

"He was dropped off at school about 8:45 and went missing sometime between then and 9 or 9:30am. We did not know he was not at school until we went to get him off of the bus at 3:30 and he was nowhere to be found."

http://ackerlaw.com/posts/2010/06/07/missing_child__kyron_horman_7

Now that you've pointed it out, it's bugging me, too.

"Dropped off" carries a very different connotation from going with him into the school and walking around with him, etc. At least, that's the way it strikes me.

Also, how did KH come up with the window of time when Kyron supposedly went missing? Especially given the fact that he and TH were supposedly unaware he was missing until he didn't get off the school bus.

If he went missing between 8:45 and 9:30 as stated above, then doesn't that mean that he was known to be missing no later than 9:30? And if so, why wasn't an alert raised then?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Now that you've pointed it out, it's bugging me, too.

"Dropped off" carries a very different connotation from going with him into the school and walking around with him, etc. At least, that's the way it strikes me.

Also, how did KH come up with the window of time when Kyron supposedly went missing? Especially given the fact that he and TH were supposedly unaware he was missing until he didn't get off the school bus.

If he went missing between 8:45 and 9:30 as stated above, then doesn't that mean that he was known to be missing no later than 9:30? And if so, why wasn't an alert raised then?

could the school (or tchr or someone running the talent show) have called either TH or KH cell? Gotten voicemail and left message - that would not necessarily be info that LE would release to the public. Or maybe KH called TH or vice versa and that's why KH said that. Its hinky - I'll give ya that!!!!

 

[RandomThoughts]

It's a picture of a friend of Kyron's. I merely cut the child out of the picture and colored that area of the picture black because someone was asking about something in the background of the pic and posting the child's image is not allowed here. The picture was in one of the early articles about the case since it was one of the pics Terri is alleged to have posted the day Kyron disappeared. If you look into the early threads, you can find a link to it.

Then it seems to me that Kyron's friend would be able to tell LE when TH took the picture. Be it Thursday night/Friday morning. And possibly if Kyron was with her, and if it was Friday, and Kyron wasn't with her, where she claimed he was?

 

[anamarieus]

Then it seems to me that Kyron's friend would be able to tell LE when TH took the picture. Be it Thursday night/Friday morning. And possibly if Kyron was with her, and if it was Friday, and Kyron wasn't with her, where she claimed he was?

I saw that pic on her FB page as well. You can also see Kyron's friends project in the back of Kyrons picture.

 

[STEADFAST]

This time line from Oregon Live shows Zimmerman as part of the time line:

"Friday, June 4

8 a.m. Skyline Elementary, 11536 N.W. Skyline Blvd., opens early so students and parents can tour the science fair. A billboard outside reads: "June 4, I.B. Inquiry Expo, 8-10, Talent show, 1-2:45." Kyron was to take part in both the expo/science fair and the talent show.

Terri Moulton Horman arrives shortly afterward with her stepson, Kyron.

8:15 a.m. Gina Zimmerman, president of the school PTA, arrives and sees Kyron with his stepmother in front of his exhibit.

8:45 a.m. Terri Horman leaves after watching Kyron walk toward his classroom after touring the science fair.

9 a.m. Kyron is seen by a student near the south entrance of the school, according to Sheriff Dan Staton, who says that was the last time the boy was seen. Multnomah County authorities later backtrack on that statement.

10 a.m. Classes begin.

At some point, Kyron's homeroom teacher, Kristina Porter, reports him absent."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_chronology_of_eve.html

But it leaves out the part about her seeing Terri taking Kyron's picture, and I think that is important.

 

[anamarieus]

Now that you've pointed it out, it's bugging me, too.

"Dropped off" carries a very different connotation from going with him into the school and walking around with him, etc. At least, that's the way it strikes me.

Also, how did KH come up with the window of time when Kyron supposedly went missing? Especially given the fact that he and TH were supposedly unaware he was missing until he didn't get off the school bus.

If he went missing between 8:45 and 9:30 as stated above, then doesn't that mean that he was known to be missing no later than 9:30? And if so, why wasn't an alert raised then?

This is my problem with this whole thing. The teacher noticed that Kyron was not there ("oh no, there's only three") even after someone stated that he was in the restroom - a flag shouldve gone up that he never returned to class.- she marked him absent and made the assumption that Terri came and got him - even though his backpack and coat were there. She just went on with the school day. Unless she was confused by the whole conversation about the appt. and assumed that Terri took him to the appt. -