Were things out of control for TH? Did she "snap"?

[BeanE]

In answer to above, as best I can...I just don't see the same kind of person, necessarily, wanting an irksome husband dead, possibly said in jest but even if not, and someone who would carry out a plan to murder a child they have basically raised for years. Not saying this person would not be on my list of suspects, even high on the list, but if I was a profiler, I would have to say these are not similar crimes. Just because someone will commit a crime, or even has committed a crime, does not mean they have committed all crimes within their realm.

i.e. Ron Cummings...is a criminal (drug dealer) possibly a (gun) thief. But even LE does not think he harmed his daughter.

I there is a link between trying to hire someone to murder a spouse, and 'disappearing' a child for whom one has been primary caretaker for years. The link is the willingness to remove the person from one's life completely. Indeed, to remove them from the world.

With MFH, divorce is not enough - the person is looking to excise the person from their life entirely. Excise them from the world.

'Disappearing' the child, whether by murder, murder for hire, selling, is doing the same thing. In this case, Kyron was not Terri's child. She had no obligations to him. She could have left and had nothing to do with him ever again. But that would not have been enough. Again, she would have been looking to excise him completely from her life, and from the world.

Another link in this specific case, if indeed Terri did both the MFH plot w/Kaine, and disappeared Kyron, would be what may have led her to want, and to be willing, to do both.

With her husband, perhaps she felt he was distant, uninvolved with her, stand offish from her life and all that was important to her. A bit in his own world. That would draining after some years. There she was taking care of his child, doing extras she didn't have to do like going to his school events etc, but not getting anything back. That's draining.

So there could be a commonality - a husband not feeding her emotional soul so to speak, a child, and young children inherently need rather than give back. Two people she might feel were draining her. Commonality.

I would add to that that for most of us, we resolve those feelings of being drained. We talk to our spouse, we get a babysitter for our child and go to the spa or out to lunch with the girls. We keep an overall balance in what we give, and what we get back.

If we feel our spouse is too much of an emotional drain, after a while, we leave, or have an affair, or get a new career or hobby.

With a stepchild, we might see if the other parents can work something out where they're taking more of the responsibility so we get a break, hire babysitters more often, set up more playdates at someone else's home, send the child to summer camp, send them to military store, or we leave and say we're not taking care of someone else's child any more.

But what about someone who's not well-equipped emotionally? Someone who doesn't know how to communicate to their spouse effectively that they're feeling drained and want more? Who doesn't think to try to fill the emptiness elsewhere? Or more extreme, can't fill the emptiness, nothing's ever enough?

What about someone who's not equipped for whatever reason to say hey I don't want to do this much for your child - you need to step up? Or doesn't think to hire babysitters more often or some other solution?

Or what about a person who's sort of a professional victim? One who gives and gives and gives... and complains and complains and complains. Look at all I do for you! Look at all I do for everyone! Why doesn't anybody do anything for me? Why don't people do more for me?

I've known a lot some people in my life, and some of them just obviously didn't know how to go about filling the emptiness. Therapy would have helped them a great deal.

But back to my point, now that I've written a book, this second commonality between spouse and child would be a perception on Terri's part, if she is the perp, of being drained by both people, resentment builds up over years, and she becomes angry, and then decides to do something about it. Not only to stop the drain, but to punish both for not giving her what she needs. It may have been impossible for anyone on earth to meet those needs, but she may not even be aware of that.

If it does turn out Terri is the perp, this is direction I'll be headed to look for motive.

But first I need to see some evidence that tells me she did try a MFH plot, and that she did 'disappear' Kyron.

Just some stuff that's been cooking in my brain on a low simmer while I wait.

And just for reference, there's nothing in my post that blames Kaine or Kyron, or that bashes Kaine. I don't feel any blame, I don't think any blame, and I think Kaine is a pretty good guy - I have no urge to bash him.

This is about Terri's possible perceptions, if she proves to be the perp.

 

[SleuthyGal]

FR, and sorry if this has been said, but...what is the point of a site like this if no one is allowed to speculate about anything except what they have seen with their own eyes?

I think there's many aspects of cases to discuss, but the trick is having something tangible and real to work with. There isn't much (visible) meat to this case yet. I'm talking facts, not rumors. Not all cases give followers a lot to chew on in the early weeks. Other cases have a lot of facts to work with right from the beginning.

I know when the only answer I can reasonably give to a question posed is "maybe yes and maybe no," I'm dealing with a rhetorical question. Rhetorical questions are frustrating because the answer is elusive and often impossible to obtain. I suppose I could guess or make something up and run with it, but (writing) fiction is not really the goal in following a case.

Since I'm a 'facts' type of case follower, I look for what is known and substantiated and proceed from that viewpoint.

So, did TH 'snap' and that's why Kyron was taken? I dunno. I guess it's possible.

 

[gwenabob]

I think I would characterize it like an earthquake. Pressure builds up over time but nobody can see or feel it. Then one day, the earth "snaps" like a rubber band and everything changes.

 

[sorrell skye]

If someone snaps, I take it to mean that someone has temporarily lost control of reason & temporarily given in to rage and is reacting in the moment to a situation that feels threatening & overwhelming without taking the time to calm themselves down & think things through.

There has been a lot of speculation about TH meticulously planning whatever happened to Kyron (including many theories on the connect the dots thread). Many theories have included the Dr. appt. confusion, taking Kyron's pic @ the SF to establish an alibi, driving KH's white truck in order to transport the SF project home, allegedly moving (or arranging for someone else to move) the white truck from one parking spot to another & smuggling Kyron out of the school via the pathway adjacent to the soccer field, receipt alibis, timeframes, allegedly digging graves, allegedly handing Kyron off to someone else (for various reasons including but not limited to ransom; revenge against KH and/or DY), allegedly contacting accomplices (DS?) to assist in whatever happened, sending out alibi e-mails, and on and on and on...

"If" TH is involved in Kyron's disappearance, she either *snapped* (for whatever reason) & did whatever she did without forethought, OR she planned his disappearance ahead of time.

It cannot be both, IMO.

 

[Donjeta]

I think something nearly always has to "snap" somehow, somewhere, sometime if a seemingly normal sort of caring person who hasn't been accustomed to using violence and crime as a solution to all of his/her problems in life changes and takes their first step to the dark side of the force and actually considers and uses that kind of solution for the first time. As opposed to someone who has been a little devil since early childhood, starting with torturing flies and frogs and going on to bully smaller kids, steal cars, set things on fire and exercise other antisocial behavior from their youth. The difference between the persons about whom you'd say "I'd never have believed it about him, he always seemed so kind" and "Oh I've always known he'd end up in jail, he was that kind of child." if you like. (Not trying to imply that the latter kind of persons have been born bad, maybe they have had their snapping moment too but it was just so early in their development that the change is not as evident in retrospect.)

It doesn't have to be a dramatic sudden rage outburst type of thing, it might occur gradually and pressure build up slowly. IMO that sort of "snapping" does not exclude premeditation. It's more about the motivations and the moral scale on which they weigh their actions. In their early life they've lived according to "It's not okay for me to do X", but at some point in time in their lives there is some event that tips the scale the other way and they start to think "It's okay for me to do X because..."

It's that tipping of the scale I think about as snapping. Something changes and I would like to know what causes it.

I understand others may think more in terms of a sudden rage outburst sort of snapping but IMO this is not that kind of a crime, if Terri did it. Someone could have seen or heard something at school if that rage outburst happened there and it makes no sense IMO to assume that she first removed him surreptitiously from school for some unrelated stealthy reason and then suddenly snapped in rage.

 

[BeanE]

Just had a thought while doing the case review. Gates was talking about Kyron working on the tree frog project. Kaine is the one IIRC worked with Kyron on it.

So here you have this person on that long slow simmer of unfilled need stretching over years, getting to her somewhere around September to November 2009, (this is speculation). Along come the end of May, first week in June, and this woman, after taking care of this man's children all day, he comes home, and what does he do? He spends his time with his child.

What about *me*?

Still not a snap, but a long slow simmer up to a rolling boil. When that boil starts, she starts planning. Punish the spouse who won't fill her emptiness and fulfill her needs, punish the child who's not even hers who drains her. She couldn't rid herself, her life, the world of Kaine through the MFH, so next best thing? Make him hurt - as much as she is hurting, and punish the child who's drained her at the same time.

Nothing to base it on but a random thought.

 

[sarah7855]

Just speculating, but whenever I look at pictures of Kyron, it occurs to me how much he looks like Desiree.

I don't know if Terri is a competitive person but she certainly took part in body-building competitions. And she is a pretty woman. Once upon a time, when Desiree was ill, she may have "competed" with her for Kaine...and she won.

She won Desiree's husband, her child, everything. Desiree was sick...Terri was healthy and beautiful....very attractive to men.

Time has passed. If she still feels competitive with Desiree...Terri cannot be too happy now. Now Desiree has a seemingly happy marriage and a job and maybe a lot more personal freedom since neither of her children live with her. Maybe Desiree seems (with two incomes) to have more personal money at her disposal. And Desiree is now the stunningly pretty woman.

Terri is now overweight and unhappy. Even her "sext-ing" does not provide productive resulrs. Maybe Kaine doesn't seem like such a prize. She can't get a job. Maybe she sends her son away to gain more freedom herself....like that annoying Desiree has.

But she is still having to put so much time into Kyron, Desiree's son....who looks so much like her. She's stuck with the burden of Kaine and Desiree's child. Kaine will never let her sent HIM away. He irritates her. His non-perfection at school seems to reflect on her...not his Mother. The "perfect teacher" who wants a job...thinks Kyron needs to be perfect too...to show just how excellent Terri is in all matters related to children.

Maybe with her older son gone, Terri fears losing the support money that may have been at her disposal...another infuriating thing. She should have the job she wants like Desiree does! She looks at Desiree and now feels that she who once competed with her and won hands down...is now losing in every category.

This frustrates and infuriates Terri. And now, if all this were not enough, Kyron , the little ingrate, is saying he wants to live with Desiree! How will THIS look at school, to friends, to Kaine? Much as she'd like to get rid of him..it should be her idea, not this ungrateful kid. After all she's done for him!

And look at him! He looks just like her rival...Desiree...who now has the life that she, Terri, wants and deserves....love, freedom, money, great figure, gorgeous looks.

Yes, I can see her snapping. And I can also see her being able to rationalize that everyone ELSE drove her to it.

I could not agree more, and I've felt this way from the beginning. Great post

 

[watchful_eye]

First, I see "snapping" as something that is sudden and dramaticly bold.

If Terri was involved, I DO NOT think she "suddenly" snapped. This was PREMEDITATED with a capital P! Kyron's disappearance was carried out so smoothly.

If anything, I's say, she'd "had enough" of Kyron/Kaine/whatever....and decided to do something about it.

Her alibies, photo of Kyron at the fair, fishy behavior, and more so than anything, the plot to kill Kaine, says it all.

And for the poster that hinted at Terri's jealosy/competition with Desiree being a possible motive, that is actually a great point.

 

[Twinbabyg]

No, I don't think she snapped on June 4. I think she had been "snapping" for months before that. If she did take Kyron, she planned it well in advance.

 

[lynmaree]

Hi BeanE, With all due respect I think Kaine might not have been totally truthful when he said everything was fine. I have read many places they had a big fight the evening of the 3rd which is why she didn't bring Kyron's project to school that night as planned. She brought it the next morning instead.

Can you provide a link or two to the many places that talk about them having a fight the night of the 3rd? I missed that and would love to read

 

[Jo in Calif]

I'm pretty sure that Desiree believes she did.

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

I personally don't feel Terri "Snapped". If she did this to Kyron, i feel it was planned for a while and that she had an accomplice, just not sure whether that accomplice was male or female!

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

Just speculating, but whenever I look at pictures of Kyron, it occurs to me how much he looks like Desiree.

I don't know if Terri is a competitive person but she certainly took part in body-building competitions. And she is a pretty woman. Once upon a time, when Desiree was ill, she may have "competed" with her for Kaine...and she won.

She won Desiree's husband, her child, everything. Desiree was sick...Terri was healthy and beautiful....very attractive to men.

Time has passed. If she still feels competitive with Desiree...Terri cannot be too happy now. Now Desiree has a seemingly happy marriage and a job and maybe a lot more personal freedom since neither of her children live with her. Maybe Desiree seems (with two incomes) to have more personal money at her disposal. And Desiree is now the stunningly pretty woman.

Terri is now overweight and unhappy. Even her "sext-ing" does not provide productive resulrs. Maybe Kaine doesn't seem like such a prize. She can't get a job. Maybe she sends her son away to gain more freedom herself....like that annoying Desiree has.

But she is still having to put so much time into Kyron, Desiree's son....who looks so much like her. She's stuck with the burden of Kaine and Desiree's child. Kaine will never let her sent HIM away. He irritates her. His non-perfection at school seems to reflect on her...not his Mother. The "perfect teacher" who wants a job...thinks Kyron needs to be perfect too...to show just how excellent Terri is in all matters related to children.

Maybe with her older son gone, Terri fears losing the support money that may have been at her disposal...another infuriating thing. She should have the job she wants like Desiree does! She looks at Desiree and now feels that she who once competed with her and won hands down...is now losing in every category.

This frustrates and infuriates Terri. And now, if all this were not enough, Kyron , the little ingrate, is saying he wants to live with Desiree! How will THIS look at school, to friends, to Kaine? Much as she'd like to get rid of him..it should be her idea, not this ungrateful kid. After all she's done for him!

And look at him! He looks just like her rival...Desiree...who now has the life that she, Terri, wants and deserves....love, freedom, money, great figure, gorgeous looks.

Yes, I can see her snapping. And I can also see her being able to rationalize that everyone ELSE drove her to it.

I believe its called Karma!

 

[krowdkat]

IMHO, if TH snapped, then she snapped more than 6 months before Kyron disappeared. In my mind, the only logical progression is as follows:

TH toys with the MFH against Kaine plot and gets cold feet because the landscaper doesn't take her seriously. I sure wish I knew what the landscaper told LE.

Then either TH or Kaine sent her teenager to live somewhere else (depending on who you believe). If TH did, then I think it was to get him out of the household before her plot to disappear Kyron came about. If Kaine did, I can see TH's disdain for her husband excelerate to the point of disappearing Kyron to get even with Kaine. Either way, if TH is guilty I feel like her motivation was to hurt Kaine as badly as she feels like he has hurt her. Could be real or imagined. I dunno.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned or some such.

ETA: TH took lovely smiling pics of Kyron that morning at the science fair. If she snapped at the school, someone would have had to see or hear it. IMO.

 

[PDXMom]

Hi BeanE, With all due respect I think Kaine might not have been totally truthful when he said everything was fine. I have read many places they had a big fight the evening of the 3rd which is why she didn't bring Kyron's project to school that night as planned. She brought it the next morning instead.

Scandi, I'd also love to read about a possible argument on the 3rd. My clunky searches haven't come up with anything - please?

 

[txsvicki]

I think it's possible that she snapped, but not due to post partum depression. Kaine is clueless to what kind of medication Terri was given and the symptoms he describes when she was body building and after having the baby for months sound like something else to me. He also thinks she got even worse the two months before Kyron went missing, but wasn't overly violent. That all sounds like a possible meth problem to me, but he thought the identical symptoms during the body building were due to over the counter stuff.

 

[mmmagique]

I believe its called Karma!

I think I'm missing something here; are you implying that if TH disappeared Kyron, it's Karma for all the bad things everyone else (especially DY and KH) did?

p.s. I wish there was a better word than disappeared to describe making a child vanish. When I warn my kids about being careful out there, they tease me when I say someone could "disappear" them.

 

[Mysticweaver]

I go for the combo theory - there were indications at least in her adulthood that things weren't totally on the up and up with her. I think she was trying to buy into her Moulton upbringing with the teacher thing, but she always manipulated people, maybe even her parents, including with $ now. She definitely participated in substances, alcohol and KH mentioned legal ampehtamines and possibly more. I think everything came to a head, but yes, the plan to get rid of Kyron and KH was premeditated, the final decision to start "going over the line' (legal) was mostly a slow evolutionary process, but one small thing could have pushed her into that decision.

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

I think I'm missing something here; are you implying that if TH disappeared Kyron, it's Karma for all the bad things everyone else (especially DY and KH) did?

p.s. I wish there was a better word than disappeared to describe making a child vanish. When I warn my kids about being careful out there, they tease me when I say someone could "disappear" them.

I was talking more about Terri who ended up in an affair with Desiree's husband, was mother to DY's child Kyron, and maybe thought she was "all that", and now the tables have perhaps turned so to speak! Sadly Kyron being missing could have been a result of the choices adults made in his life, IF it is proven TH did something sinister to Kyron. As i have learned in life our actions have consequences, whatever they may be. I think most of us realise that don't we? Its like a woman that has a very young child, then brings a boyfriend into their lives, she trusts the guy to love her and her child, and he beats the child to death while the child is on his watch, which i have heard of numerous cases of this happening. The mother's did not know this would happen, but in every relationship there is a risk factor, because we can usually not foresee things happening, there is always "risk" in any new relationship, and even in some that have been together for a long time.
What about the woman that is oblivious to her partner being a serial rapist or a murderer, that she never would of suspected of being capable of something like that! It can work in the reverse too, with a woman killing her child or children. That happened just recently in NC. People do "Snap" from some of the cases i have seen. Karma simply means what you sow you also reap, so if you put an action into effect, it will have certain consequences, and we sometimes don't know that until its too late, if something out of the ordinary does occur.
I will use a personal example, my 23 yr. old son got into a vehicle with a drunk driver, not even sure if he knew just how many drinks the guy had had. My son died as a result of him getting into that particular vehicle with that particular person. They were involved in an accident, and the driver came out not really hurt at all. There was the action that = a consequence.

 

[OneLove]

I was talking more about Terri who ended up in an affair with Desiree's husband, was mother to DY's child Kyron, and maybe thought she was "all that", and now the tables have perhaps turned so to speak! Sadly Kyron being missing could have been a result of the choices adults made in his life, IF it is proven TH did something sinister to Kyron. As i have learned in life our actions have consequences, whatever they may be. I think most of us realise that don't we? Its like a woman that has a very young child, then brings a boyfriend into their lives, she trusts the guy to love her and her child, and he beats the child to death while the child is on his watch, which i have heard of numerous cases of this happening. The mother's did not know this would happen, but in every relationship there is a risk factor, because we can usually not foresee things happening, there is always "risk" in any new relationship, and even in some that have been together for a long time.
What about the woman that is oblivious to her partner being a serial rapist or a murderer, that she never would of suspected of being capable of something like that! It can work in the reverse too, with a woman killing her child or children. That happened just recently in NC. People do "Snap" from some of the cases i have seen. Karma simply means what you sow you also reap, so if you put an action into effect, it will have certain consequences, and we sometimes don't know that until its too late, if something out of the ordinary does occur.
I will use a personal example, my 23 yr. old son got into a vehicle with a drunk driver, not even sure if he knew just how many drinks the guy had had. My son died as a result of him getting into that particular vehicle with that particular person. They were involved in an accident, and the driver came out not really hurt at all. There was the action that = a consequence.

You write very eloquently. I am so very very sorry about your 23 year old son. Thank you for sharing. I will be sharing this with my own young adult sons; you may be saving their lives by sharing this. And yes, I do believe angels watch over them all, everywhere, all the time.