Were things out of control for TH? Did she "snap"?

[LindseyLou]

Without reading all of the prior posts first - I don't think she snapped. If everything we've read about her is true, then I believe that she has some sort of mental illness or condition that caused her to carry out some "unimaginable harm" on a child who she personally help raise. I believe it was something that was slowly building and getting worse as her living situation became more and more hectic. maybe resentment and anger - then add some mental instability...you have yourself a cocktail of horrible possibilities.

Did she snap in anger and accidentally hurt him? then try to cover it up?
Did she premeditate his "disappearance" and follow a plan with motive behind it?

I think it could be mental illness if it was premeditated, but if it was accidental that wouldn't necessarily mean she was mentally unstable. Guess it really depends on what actually happened.



I think its very strange that LE have not found enough incriminating evidence against her to arrest her. As much weird stuff that went on in her day on June 4th...its seems like a lot of either covering up or following a certain plan.

 

[drip~drop]

First, I see "snapping" as something that is sudden and dramaticly bold.

If Terri was involved, I DO NOT think she "suddenly" snapped. This was PREMEDITATED with a capital P! Kyron's disappearance was carried out so smoothly.

If anything, I's say, she'd "had enough" of Kyron/Kaine/whatever....and decided to do something about it.

Her alibies, photo of Kyron at the fair, fishy behavior, and more so than anything, the plot to kill Kaine, says it all.

And for the poster that hinted at Terri's jealosy/competition with Desiree being a possible motive, that is actually a great point.

There is snapping
then there is S N A P P I N G Big.

Then there is child "disappearance", sexting w/ pix, alleged murder for hire. Changing body type, sending older son away...
All these events weren't at the same time.

How long is a "snap" supposed to last? And how often does a snap make a child "lost"?
(I know it does happen and children die but it's usually younger freakier people imo)

moo:cow:

 

[Pensfan]

IMO, people don’t just “snap” and do severe violent acts. When the U.S. government has studied extremely violent attacks such as college sniper attacks or the recent attack at Ft. Hood by the Army psychiatrist, they have found that there is no "profile" of the attacker, but rather, there was a common set of "attack related behaviors" that the subjects exhibited. These attack related behaviors were associated instead with historical (past violence, juvenile detention, physical abuse, parental arrest record), clinical (substance abuse, perceived threats), dispositional (age, sex, income), and contextual (recent divorce, unemployment, victimization) factors.

Mental illness plus substance abuse DOES increase the risk for violence. A recent study showed that only 2.4% of people with severe mental had exhibited violent behavior. (Severe mental illness in this study included schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and major depression.) This same study compared severely mental ill people that also had a substance abuse disorder. Severely mentally ill people with a substance abuse problem had 10 times the risk of violence than the non-addicted, but severely mentally ill study participants.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090202174814.htm

http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/66/2/152

Eric B. Elbogen, Sally C. Johnson. The Intricate Link Between Violence and Mental Disorder: Results From the National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions. Arch Gen Psychiatry, 2009; 66 (2): 152-161

 

[Zephyr]

My opinion is - no way she snapped. This was totally premeditated. I see TH as a very ambitious woman, knows exactly what she wants, and pursues it aggressively with little or no regard for the feelings of others.

So... she gets what she wants, but then finds it's not what she was expecting. Kaine wasn't such a catch, after all. Kyron's academic performance was supposed to provide proof of her superstar teaching abilities, but he turned out to be just an average child. All that time and trouble wasted.

She could have simply walked away from Kaine and Kyron. But that would only be proof that she was a loser, worthy of derision.

So much better if her husband had been murdered. She would have been a victim, deserving of much sympathy. Anyone criticizing other aspects of her life would be seen as a heartless jerk.

Or if she could have been the heartbroken mother of an abducted child. She could have been right up there with John Walsh and Marc Klaas!

Nope, TH is an overly optimistic narcissist. She really believed that she could pull this off and then, soon enough, turn her "loss" to her own advantage.

But this is only my opinion.

 

[DreamyEye]

I'm having one of those things where you see what you've been seeing right along, but suddenly it looks different.

First, J was sent away. Then the attempted MFH against KH. Then Kyron disappeared. And now, while she seems very brazen and cavalier in some respects, TH seems to be bent on self-destruction. I don't know what I'm getting at, other than TH might possible have been trying to "disappear" everyone in the family at some level, including herself--and if that's true, KH is very wise to fight tooth and nail to keep that baby away from her.

 

[TxLady2]

IMO, people don’t just “snap” and do severe violent acts.

Really? I disagree... what about the young mother who shook her baby to death recently, because the baby's crying disrupted her playing Farmville on Facebook? I would say that is an excellent example of someone snapping and doing a violent act.

 

[Pensfan]

Really? I disagree... what about the young mother who shook her baby to death recently, because the baby's crying disrupted her playing Farmville on Facebook? I would say that is an excellent example of someone snapping and doing a violent act.

Do you know this woman's historical (past violence, juvenile detention, physical abuse, parental arrest record), clinical (substance abuse, perceived threats), dispositional (age, sex, income-poverty), and contextual (recent divorce, unemployment, victimization) factors? She may have a long history of mental health issues and behavioral problems. IMO, killing her baby was likely a disturbed progression or the result of her mental health problems and it may have been compounded by dispositional and contextual issues. She may also have lived with undiagnosed mental health problems.

 

[LindseyLou]

Do you know this woman's historical (past violence, juvenile detention, physical abuse, parental arrest record), clinical (substance abuse, perceived threats), dispositional (age, sex, income-poverty), and contextual (recent divorce, unemployment, victimization) factors? She may have a long history of mental health issues and behavioral problems. IMO, killing her baby was likely a disturbed progression or the result of her mental health problems and it may have been compounded by dispositional and contextual issues. She may also have lived with undiagnosed mental health problems.

I do agree with your point. Usually it takes a wave of mental instability to hit its peak (and we actually don't even know if she had shaken the baby before and just got lucky that nothing bad happened to it). Usually with mental illness it starts to slowly take over their actions and becomes more and more severe with time and especially with certain triggers or catalysts.

I can speak from personal experience, it seems that people who have a family member who starts to show signs of mental illness don't know what to do to help them and they notice it progressively get worse and worse....add in the substance abuse and its really a white elephant in the room. So they sort of enable their behavior because calling them out on their behavior and telling them they need to go see a psychiatrist is like calling them crazy - and that will most definitely not work at getting them help. They will turn on you and see you as the enemy and maybe this is what happened in the Horman family.

Kaine was seeing her disturbing behavior and enabling her to a certain extent because he didn't know how to handle her behavior or some of the things she was doing. Maybe he mentioned to her that she needed to go to AA meetings or that she might have PPD, or even suggested that she wasn't taking good enough care of baby K...then she starts seeing him as the enemy. In her eyes he turns into someone who is verbally abusive and cruel. If she had a mental illness, she would elaborate and exaggerate the so-called abuse in her eyes and create a much worse scenario in her mind than what in reality is really happening.

 

[txsvicki]

Even though some may have depression or Bipolar, I think all murderers are either antisocial sociopaths or malignant narcissists = evil. The only ones who have any sort of excuse are schizoprenics who are completely out of it. There's all types of these evil people with personality disorders, from wealthy politicians down to drug addicted street people.

 

[tragco]

IMO:

There was no snap. It was a slow buildup of irrational anger following her postpartum depression.

She was angry at Kaine for some reason; maybe she felt he was not paying attention to her anymore. She started drinking again. Maybe she had convinced herself he was having an affair. She put out feelers for a MFH against him.

She dealt with the school quite often. She got to watch all the teachers doing what she wanted to be doing, but couldn't because of her DUI. She became irrationally angry with the school.

Her oldest son left. She may have been angry about that and blamed Kaine.

Kyron got caught in the middle of all this.

I think Terri in her warped mind figured out a way to get even with the school and Kaine all at once. She started to feel strong again there at the end- wasn't she beginning to train for another bodybuilding competition? Any of those bodybuilding drugs certainly couldn't help her mood either.

This was a seed that was planted and grew. She probably looked at it as a game for a while, a "what if?" scenario, but it took on shape and became perfectly defined. It was a long-premeditated design shaped by a woman who did not have to work daily and had lots of time to think.

 

[KeyboardCat]

I do not think Terry Horman "snapped." I believe that she likes her drama lifestyle, imitating Desperate Housewives and Days of Our Lives, etc. I'm betting that she has always been that way. Example: It takes a special kind of woman to get involved with a man with a pregnant wife.

I am not Terry Horman's biggest fan, admittedly. I have biases and prejudices against certain behavior. And from what I've seen of Terry Horman, it doesn't mesh well with 'loving mother.' I believe that she is too wrapped up in herself and her drama to have cared much for Kyron before he went missing, and perhaps has even less now.

Off topic: I hope the detectives have decided to compile a list of every known person at Skyline Elementary that day... and I'd give my left kidney to peek at that list.

 

[debs]

I do not think Terry Horman "snapped." I believe that she likes her drama lifestyle, imitating Desperate Housewives and Days of Our Lives, etc. I'm betting that she has always been that way. Example: It takes a special kind of woman to get involved with a man with a pregnant wife.

I am not Terry Horman's biggest fan, admittedly. I have biases and prejudices against certain behavior. And from what I've seen of Terry Horman, it doesn't mesh well with 'loving mother.' I believe that she is too wrapped up in herself and her drama to have cared much for Kyron before he went missing, and perhaps has even less now.

Off topic: I hope the detectives have decided to compile a list of every known person at Skyline Elementary that day... and I'd give my left kidney to peek at that list.

Desiree seems to disagree with this opinion:

KATE SNOW: – kind of stepfather-stepmother-mom-dad extended family. How did that all work in raising Kyron?
DESIREE YOUNG: We just made sure that we got along, and that we sacrificed things that needed to be sacrificed for the good of the kids, and just dedicated our emotional energy in that and not at each other.
They got along as best they could. Around the age of two, Kyron began living with his father and stepmother full time in Portland. Friends say Terri was an attentive stepmom, active in Kyron's school.
KATE SNOW: Was she a good mother?
DESIREE YOUNG: I wouldn't say she would replace me, obviously, but she definitely gave him what he needed.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38420266

 

[txsvicki]

I can't help but wonder if Desiree was aware of what Kaine says was going on since the baby was born. The reports of daily drinking until stumbling, staying up all hours, sleeping on the couch, wanting to punish Kyron, alleged neglect, Kaine giving all the primary child care, and not being overly violent. Then there's the issue of Kyron sleeping so many hours and not coming out of his room til called, and not sure if Kaine ever attributed that to Terri's demands or not. Surely, if she knew all this she wouldn't have said she was a good stand in mom or stepmom.

 

[debs]

I can't help but wonder if Desiree was aware of what Kaine says was going on since the baby was born. The reports of daily drinking until stumbling, staying up all hours, sleeping on the couch, wanting to punish Kyron, alleged neglect, Kaine giving all the primary child care, and not being overly violent. Then there's the issue of Kyron sleeping so many hours and not coming out of his room til called, and not sure if Kaine ever attributed that to Terri's demands or not. Surely, if she knew all this she wouldn't have said she was a good stand in mom or stepmom.

It seemed to me that when Kaine stated that he'd sit on the edge of his bed and wait for someone to come get him, he told it as an endearing quality of Kyron. Both he and Desiree chuckled a little bit about this quality of their child.

 

[Billylee]

I can't help but wonder if Desiree was aware of what Kaine says was going on since the baby was born. The reports of daily drinking until stumbling, staying up all hours, sleeping on the couch, wanting to punish Kyron, alleged neglect, Kaine giving all the primary child care, and not being overly violent. Then there's the issue of Kyron sleeping so many hours and not coming out of his room til called, and not sure if Kaine ever attributed that to Terri's demands or not. Surely, if she knew all this she wouldn't have said she was a good stand in mom or stepmom.

For reference, this is from July 1, where Kaine, Desiree & Tony, got together and wrote answers to some questions the media had been asking.

7).What plans do you have for Kyron when he comes home?

Aside from the fact that he is never leaving the house again, vacation, camping, fishing and all of the things that he loves to do. We are going to focus on spending everyday making sure that he is happy, just as we have done before this happened.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_family_plans_reg.html


In the above statement, I'm not hearing ANYONE in this family say they saw any problems with Kyron being mistreated by Terri. I'm taking from this joint statement, that the three parents above, saw nothing wrong with Kyron's environment and that he was a happy kid and when he returns it will be just as before.

In fact, the only one, prior to the divorce proceedings, that I've heard say Kyron had any possible problems, was, Terri Horman, who said he'd been gazing off and stopping and staring, for which she said she made a doctor's appointment to have him checked out.

These answers were given two days after Kaine Horman filed for divorce. I have to wonder why something about what had been going on with Terri's routine drunkeness and neglect for the children in her care was not mentioned right there and how unhappy Kyron had been, but they would all make sure he'd never be unhappy again. THAT'S not what they said, they implied he was happy before he disappeared.

I would also like to know why Kaine allowed Terri who could not control her drinking, to drive Kyron to Eugene every two weeks and I would like to know why Desiree, not only allowed her son Kyron to be transported there by Terri, but depended on Terri to pick up her other son also. Either Kaine was not on the up and up with Desiree, or his divorce papers are highly exaggerated. JMHO

 

[citigirl]

I would also like to know why Kaine allowed Terri who could not control her drinking, to drive Kyron to Eugene every two weeks and I would like to know why Desiree, not only allowed her son Kyron to be transported there by Terri, but depended on Terri to pick up her other son also. Either Kaine was not on the up and up with Desiree, or his divorce papers are highly exaggerated. JMHO

This bothers me, too...

 

[Jo in Calif]

For reference, this is from July 1, where Kaine, Desiree & Tony, got together and wrote answers to some questions the media had been asking.

7).What plans do you have for Kyron when he comes home?

Aside from the fact that he is never leaving the house again, vacation, camping, fishing and all of the things that he loves to do. We are going to focus on spending everyday making sure that he is happy, just as we have done before this happened.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_family_plans_reg.html


In the above statement, I'm not hearing ANYONE in this family say they saw any problems with Kyron being mistreated by Terri. I'm taking from this joint statement, that the three parents above, saw nothing wrong with Kyron's environment and that he was a happy kid and when he returns it will be just as before.

In fact, the only one, prior to the divorce proceedings, that I've heard say Kyron had any possible problems, was, Terri Horman, who said he'd been gazing off and stopping and staring, for which she said she made a doctor's appointment to have him checked out.

These answers were given two days after Kaine Horman filed for divorce. I have to wonder why something about what had been going on with Terri's routine drunkeness and neglect for the children in her care was not mentioned right there and how unhappy Kyron had been, but they would all make sure he'd never be unhappy again. THAT'S not what they said, they implied he was happy before he disappeared.

I would also like to know why Kaine allowed Terri who could not control her drinking, to drive Kyron to Eugene every two weeks and I would like to know why Desiree, not only allowed her son Kyron to be transported there by Terri, but depended on Terri to pick up her other son also. Either Kaine was not on the up and up with Desiree, or his divorce papers are highly exaggerated. JMHO

But let's not forget this in the beginning of the questions to the parents.


TERRI

There were a lot of questions asked about Terri Horman or situations surrounding her. Based on where the investigation is at this point we are unable to comment on those questions.

 

[mmmagique]

At the beginning, no one wanted to acknowledge what was right in front of their faces.
As time went on, and more info was revealed, it became impossible to ignore the big red squirrel in the living room.

 

[eyes4crime]

I think this is a good article about alcohol, some of the research is older but very informative. It's from one of my all time favorite sites 'Lifehacker' and is written so that most of us can understand it. Also talks about impulsive behavior and memory loss as it relates to alcohol. moo mho

*snip - snip*

Your body sees alcohol as a poison, or at least as something it doesn't actually want inside it. To fight back, and sober you up, humans have evolved to produce an enzyme called alcohol dehydrogenase. *snip*

http://lifehacker.com/5684996/what-alcohol-actually-does-to-your-brain-and-body?skyline=true&s=i

 

[Marcusdog]

I'm not sure the doctor's appointment is even a factor...to me it is one of those "red herring" things...I think the teacher needed that excuse more than Terri did.

I totally agree with you on the DRs appt. But the part about sign language the writer was referring to is now taught to all children under two yo as a means of communication in the first steps program. Also if a child does not have a vocabulary of at least 50 well pronounced words by two yo then speech therapy is recommended.