What do you think the Ramsey's original plan was...

[UKGuy]

The way I see it is BR did not need the basement, he and JonBenet shared their bedrooms at night, Patsy admitted this.

So anything transpiring between JonBenet and BR can just as easily happen in the respective bedroom, without the need to force JonBenet to leave a nice warm bedroom for a cold, windy basement.

.

 

[kanzz]

The way I see it is BR did not need the basement, he and JonBenet shared their bedrooms at night, Patsy admitted this.

So anything transpiring between JonBenet and BR can just as easily happen in the respective bedroom, without the need to force JonBenet to leave a nice warm bedroom for a cold, windy basement.

.

BBM
Did not need the basement. Maybe. Not usually anyway. But she was down there that night, never the less. And she didn't need to be murdered either -- or did she? In somebody's demented mind, maybe she did. Maybe somebody thought it was time for her to go, and maybe that somebody thought they'd get by with it as they had gotten by with things so many times before.

Wow. Now that I think about it.. I know a guy who's serving a hard 40 just like that. Grew up with him hanging out with my nephew who is 7 mos younger than me. Just a farm kid everybody liked and got along with - til he eventually murdered his wife. Then they proved that he had been getting by with farm fraud for years - arson. It's all coming back to me as I type this. I am positively creeping myself out. I attended his trial. My sister was jury foreman (if you can believe that - she tried to tell them she knew him).
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ks-supreme-court/1373220.html

 

[Annapurna]

Remember, it was the Ramsey's that said she was terrified of the basement so take that with a grain of salt. If you look at the theory of what likely happened you see the Ramsey's trying to distance themselves from all the evidence that supports that theory. The pineapple, the flashlight, the size 12s, the basement, etc.

Actually it was the nanny/ housekeeper Susan Savage I believe (or was it Linda Wilcox?). So I would believe that part.


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[TeaTime]

Cold, damp, cluttered and dark. And Burke enjoyed it down there...

A man cave. Men like cold, damp, cluttered, dark spaces. Just go on a girls' vacation for a week, you'll come home to a hoarder's cave with burned out bulbs every where. Of course, I am exaggerating ( a little) but have you ever been to a middle-of-nowhere hunting camp or fishing camp owned and shared by men with stressful jobs, wives, kids, parents and mortgages? I get your point, it is kinda creepy in a Hollywood kinda way. But, a bright child of a wealthy family playing alone, in a dark, cold, damp, cluttered basement is very, very sad to me. Unsupervised, left to his own imagination and isolated. Neglected.

BR was 5 when his mother 'disappeared' with cancer for 9 months and crazy Nedra was in charge. His little sister was 2. He had been moved from Atlanta at the same time a new baby arrived, had a home renovation going on a sick and therefore, distant mother, a workaholic father. When she was healed, his mother hired someone to play basketball with him while they waited for JBR to finish dance classes, pageant preparations. His dad's attention included flying remote control planes and sailing, neither of which happened consistently. His big sister was killed in a car crash which reduced his father to wailing in the attic many nights. There was a lot of confusion in the house and a lot of activity.

JBR was made to be the center of attention and he was reduced to being just an audience member. I think he was likely traumatized with a sense of abandonment at age 5 and that empty cup never got refilled.

Before he was 10 years old, his world became an international tabloid festival because his little sister had been murdered in his own home, right down the hall from his own bedroom.

If he isn't messed up from that life, add to it that his mom died when he was 19 and his dad remarried and lives across the country from him.

For DP to act like BR is just a normal, awkward guy is a joke. Nobody has that history and runs on all cylinders.

 

[HarmonyE.]

A man cave. Men like cold, damp, cluttered, dark spaces. Just go on a girls' vacation for a week, you'll come home to a hoarder's cave with burned out bulbs every where. Of course, I am exaggerating ( a little) but have you ever been to a middle-of-nowhere hunting camp or fishing camp owned and shared by men with stressful jobs, wives, kids, parents and mortgages? I get your point, it is kinda creepy in a Hollywood kinda way. But, a bright child of a wealthy family playing alone, in a dark, cold, damp, cluttered basement is very, very sad to me. Unsupervised, left to his own imagination and isolated. Neglected.

BR was 5 when his mother 'disappeared' with cancer for 9 months and crazy Nedra was in charge. His little sister was 2. He had been moved from Atlanta at the same time a new baby arrived, had a home renovation going on a sick and therefore, distant mother, a workaholic father. When she was healed, his mother hired someone to play basketball with him while they waited for JBR to finish dance classes, pageant preparations. His dad's attention included flying remote control planes and sailing, neither of which happened consistently. His big sister was killed in a car crash which reduced his father to wailing in the attic many nights. There was a lot of confusion in the house and a lot of activity.

JBR was made to be the center of attention and he was reduced to being just an audience member. I think he was likely traumatized with a sense of abandonment at age 5 and that empty cup never got refilled.

Before he was 10 years old, his world became an international tabloid festival because his little sister had been murdered in his own home, right down the hall from his own bedroom.

If he isn't messed up from that life, add to it that his mom died when he was 19 and his dad remarried and lives across the country from him.

For DP to act like BR is just a normal, awkward guy is a joke. Nobody has that history and runs on all cylinders.

Great post.

I actually spent a fair amount of time in our basement when I was a kid. Not because it was my first choice, but because I was the oldest of a slew of kids in a small house and could only read or do homework in peace down there. Although I think it's why I despise all manner of fluorescent lighting to this day. Burke lived in a mansion with three other people and yet he chose that nasty place to hang out in. I agree it says a lot about how he must have felt about his lowly position, and probably that he wanted to be far away from everyone else in the family.

 

[TeaTime]

Fluorescent lighting. I hate it too! LOL

 

[Splenda]

Regardless of which one of them actually committed the murder, I believe it's a major case of "the left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing" that resulted in PR & JR failing at a sound cover-up. Liars must have excellent recall, work in unison, & the physical findings must match the statements given. I believe this was due to: 1) Like previously suggested, disagreement on how & when to dispose of the body, & thus feeling rushed to make decision(s), 2) PR & JR possibly not being on the same page exactly & once that 911 call was made, they individually went with the flow, not always with the knowledge or approval of or from the other, 3) PR just not as smart as JR, but having a strong personality to charge ahead with the wild actions like the RN that screamed phony from start to finish, 4) JR taking the action to recover the body leading to PR's real surprise & distraught behavior, 5) JR being wise enough to realize they'd messed in their nest & independently making the decision to flee ASAP, & hire pros to advise them from there --- definitely too little, too late.

 

[Miz Adventure]

BBM
Did not need the basement. Maybe. Not usually anyway. But she was down there that night, never the less. And she didn't need to be murdered either -- or did she? In somebody's demented mind, maybe she did. Maybe somebody thought it was time for her to go, and maybe that somebody thought they'd get by with it as they had gotten by with things so many times before.

Wow. Now that I think about it.. I know a guy who's serving a hard 40 just like that. Grew up with him hanging out with my nephew who is 7 mos younger than me. Just a farm kid everybody liked and got along with - til he eventually murdered his wife. Then they proved that he had been getting by with farm fraud for years - arson. It's all coming back to me as I type this. I am positively creeping myself out. I attended his trial. My sister was jury foreman (if you can believe that - she tried to tell them she knew him).
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ks-supreme-court/1373220.html

That's an interesting case. Thanks for sharing, kanzz.

 

[Ambitioned]

Great post.

I actually spent a fair amount of time in our basement when I was a kid. Not because it was my first choice, but because I was the oldest of a slew of kids in a small house and could only read or do homework in peace down there. Although I think it's why I despise all manner of fluorescent lighting to this day. Burke lived in a mansion with three other people and yet he chose that nasty place to hang out in. I agree it says a lot about how he must have felt about his lowly position, and probably that he wanted to be far away from everyone else in the family.

"He almost never said a word to me," Scott told Schiller. "Just played by himself in the backyard, completely occupied with his own projects. ... He always seemed to play alone."

Says a lot, doesn't it?

 

[Ambitioned]

BBM
Did not need the basement. Maybe. Not usually anyway. But she was down there that night, never the less. And she didn't need to be murdered either -- or did she? In somebody's demented mind, maybe she did. Maybe somebody thought it was time for her to go, and maybe that somebody thought they'd get by with it as they had gotten by with things so many times before.

Wow. Now that I think about it.. I know a guy who's serving a hard 40 just like that. Grew up with him hanging out with my nephew who is 7 mos younger than me. Just a farm kid everybody liked and got along with - til he eventually murdered his wife. Then they proved that he had been getting by with farm fraud for years - arson. It's all coming back to me as I type this. I am positively creeping myself out. I attended his trial. My sister was jury foreman (if you can believe that - she tried to tell them she knew him).
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ks-supreme-court/1373220.html

Fascinating! Strangulation, blunt trauma, AND trying to place blame on someone else.

The K.S.A. 60-455 evidence indicated that the defendant had a violent temper.   It illustrated that the defendant had used his temper to control his spouses.

Glad he is behind bars.

 

[Cranberry]

yes kanzz,so sad, a 6 year old girl playing basketball out in the garage, unaware, unable to hear what was going on, and then he takes her Christmas shopping

 

[andreww]

Regardless of which one of them actually committed the murder, I believe it's a major case of "the left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing" that resulted in PR & JR failing at a sound cover-up. Liars must have excellent recall, work in unison, & the physical findings must match the statements given. I believe this was due to: 1) Like previously suggested, disagreement on how & when to dispose of the body, & thus feeling rushed to make decision(s), 2) PR & JR possibly not being on the same page exactly & once that 911 call was made, they individually went with the flow, not always with the knowledge or approval of or from the other, 3) PR just not as smart as JR, but having a strong personality to charge ahead with the wild actions like the RN that screamed phony from start to finish, 4) JR taking the action to recover the body leading to PR's real surprise & distraught behavior, 5) JR being wise enough to realize they'd messed in their nest & independently making the decision to flee ASAP, & hire pros to advise them from there --- definitely too little, too late.

Two things, they didn't "fail at a sound coverup". It actually worked surprisingly well. Secondly, what makes you so sure John was even involved in the staging?

 

[andreww]

I don't recall what the Ramseys said about JB and the basement, but their ex-nanny Linda Wilcox said this to Peter Boyles:

http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/07211998lindawilcoxon-pb.htm


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She might not have liked it down there, but if a certain someone told her about a wine cellar full of unopened presents.

 

[CircuitGuy]

As for her fear of that disaster of a basement, yes, the Ramseys could be lying, but it clearly was Burke and Patsy's crazy domain, there is no visual evidence that it was her play area.

What was so bad about their basement? Was there something about their basement that made it a crazy disaster? Or was it just a typical basement?

 

[andreww]

What was so bad about their basement? Was there something about their basement that made it a crazy disaster? Or was it just a typical basement?

Ever watched Hoarders?

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

What was so bad about their basement? Was there something about their basement that made it a crazy disaster? Or was it just a typical basement?

If you look at the crime scene photos it was just a mess, junk and clutter everywhere. Not really unusual I suppose, mostly a repository for things the Ramseys no longer had use for. The basement bathroom was kinda rough with unflushed poop in the toilet and peanut butter smears (?) on the wall.


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[kanzz]

BBM
Did not need the basement. Maybe. Not usually anyway. But she was down there that night, never the less. And she didn't need to be murdered either -- or did she? In somebody's demented mind, maybe she did. Maybe somebody thought it was time for her to go, and maybe that somebody thought they'd get by with it as they had gotten by with things so many times before.

Wow. Now that I think about it.. I know a guy who's serving a hard 40 just like that. Grew up with him hanging out with my nephew who is 7 mos younger than me. Just a farm kid everybody liked and got along with - til he eventually murdered his wife. Then they proved that he had been getting by with farm fraud for years - arson. It's all coming back to me as I type this. I am positively creeping myself out. I attended his trial. My sister was jury foreman (if you can believe that - she tried to tell them she knew him).
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ks-supreme-court/1373220.html

Freddie E Boorigie Jr.
He's 60 now, but he was only 42 when he committedd this heinous crime; and he was a very good-looking man back then. Spoiled rotten kid who had repeatedly gotten by with one crime after another (arson fraud, as was brought out at trial).

A few more personal details about Freddie and this incident.
He had grown up the only son of a good family near my other sister's farm and had become one of my nephew's best buddies. Over the years, he attended many Thanksgiving and other dinners with our extended family. He was only a bit younger, and was also an occasional friend of my ex.

The first day of trial, when I walked into the large waiting area outside the courtroom, the first person I saw was the state fire marshal. I approached and asked if he remembered me. He replied, "kanzz, every day since this happened all I've been able to think is that this could have been you." As we hugged and tears rolled down my cheeks, I felt much validation.

See, on August 8, 1991, 7 years before Freddie E Boorigie Jr. killed Jenell Boorigie, my ex torched my home after beating the bed with a golf club (he obviously thought I was in bed asleep because I had placed pillows there to appear so). Brief background: We had divorced 2 months earlier and he had called my home approx 84 times that night. I'd never executed my order of protection before, but I called LE and my brother, and both came and insisted that I leave the house. Approx 3 hours later, dispatch called my brother's house and said my house was on fire. Arrested for arson and attempted murder, but not convicted. Money talks. He had connections.

And now you know more about me than I had ever planned to reveal. Apologies for being OT.

 

[SecretaryGal]

Freddie E Boorigie Jr.
He's 60 now, but he was only 42 when he committedd this heinous crime; and he was a very good-looking man back then. Spoiled rotten kid who had repeatedly gotten by with one crime after another (arson fraud, as was brought out at trial).

A few more personal details about Freddie and this incident.
He had grown up the only son of a good family near my other sister's farm and had become one of my nephew's best buddies. Over the years, he attended many Thanksgiving and other dinners with our extended family. He was only a bit younger, and was also an occasional friend of my ex.

The first day of trial, when I walked into the large waiting area outside the courtroom, the first person I saw was the state fire marshal. I approached and asked if he remembered me. He replied, "kanzz, every day since this happened all I've been able to think is that this could have been you." As we hugged and tears rolled down my cheeks, I felt much validation.

See, on August 8, 1991, 7 years before Freddie E Boorigie Jr. killed Jenell Boorigie, my ex torched my home after beating the bed with a golf club (he obviously thought I was in bed asleep because I had placed pillows there to appear so). Brief background: We had divorced 2 months earlier and he had called my home approx 84 times that night. I'd never executed my order of protection before, but I called LE and my brother, and both came and insisted that I leave the house. Approx 3 hours later, dispatch called my brother's house and said my house was on fire. Arrested for arson and attempted murder, but not convicted. Money talks. He had connections.

And now you know more about me than I had ever planned to reveal. Apologies for being OT.

Oh my goodness Kanzz, how terrifying for you. I'm so sorry you had to go through all of that.

 

[FinallyRegistered]

Hugs to you, ((Kanzz)) - thanks so much for sharing.

 

[Ambitioned]

The first day of trial, when I walked into the large waiting area outside the courtroom, the first person I saw was the state fire marshal. I approached and asked if he remembered me. He replied, "kanzz, every day since this happened all I've been able to think is that this could have been you." As we hugged and tears rolled down my cheeks, I felt much validation.

Good gravy!! How terrifying. I'm so glad you are okay!! :loveyou:

You have SO much fascinating history. With this and Pretty Boy, you could write a book. I'd be the first to buy!