What evidence does the prosecution have?

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I believe this cause and effect statement supposes too much.

This post states that TM was shot *because* he was a suspicious black man.

GZ had encountered a number of suspicious individuals during his time watching the neighborhood, but this was the first and only one on whom he ever pulled and used a weapon. I believe that means something different occurred with this suspect. Confrontation wasn't part of GZ's pattern of behavior.

Pursuit is a term that also supposes too much. It implies an intent to catch up with. We do not know if that was his intent, or if it was simply to maintain visual contact.

bbm

I believe you might be misinformed. Yes, George had called the police about several Black boys/men ... but I do not remember that he ever followed and/or confronted ANY of them.

The other times he was suspicious of Black men, he did what he was supposed to do as a law abiding neighborhood watch captain. He informed the Sanford PD, stayed safely at home and let the trained police pursue the *up-to-no-good Black guys.*

Absolutely something was different with Trayvon. All the other suspicious Black guys were a$$hol*s who the Sanford cops allowed to get away.

According to Taaffe, "George was fed-up and angry and wasn't going to take it anymore." George made sure THIS Black *potential burglar,* 17 year old Trayvon Martin, did NOT get away. _ :furious:

imo
 
The fact of the matter is we are now finding out as more info comes out that he did in fact have injuries. There is no way he's going to cause those injuries after the fact when the cops who saw him that night will simply testify that he didn't have them, thus at that point you might as well throw him in jail anyway.

We also find out that the word of a funeral director means nothing as it pertains to injuries to TM's hands. Many were taking the funeral director's comments that he saw no signs of injury as fact that TM has no injuries. We are learning that is not the case.



Can you all help me with these questions?

How would TM end up with broken skin on his knuckles, unless he hit GZ in his mouth? Teeth can break the skin on knuckles. I had seen so many fights in high school, but I have never seen anyone with broken skin on their knuckles, unless they hit someone in the mouth, hit a wall or their hand hit the ground. I can understand bruising, but broken skin on his knuckles makes me wonder how it really happened?

Could TM's skinned knuckles have come from him and GZ rolling around on the ground and skinning his knuckles? Could TM have held his hands around GZ face/ears while his knuckles were down, and then started pounding GZ's head into the ground? Could his skinned knuckles have come from him falling on the ground, after being shot?

So many thoughts are going through my mind on this one.
 
All I know is at some point, not everything can be a coverup. At some point you have to look at the evidence and ask if things that were initially thought to have happened, really didn't happen that way.
 
There is so much social security check fraud and SSI fraud going on where people get their doctors to write medical documentation stating that they can no longer work.

I work for Social Security Administration and hear of a lot of fraud cases. My cousin worked in the Labor Relations department and had to attend a lot of the Appeals Hearings. He said their were a lot of strange cases at the hearings.


Just questions going through my mind. What are your thoughts on this? --
Could it be possible that GZ's father could be a very close friend with the doctor? Could his father have helped the doctor in a malpractice case?

bbm

Sure, the doctor and Zimmerman Sr. could have been good friends ... possibly through church or some community social or men's club.

However, I doubt Zimmerman Sr. has enough legal expertise to help with a medical malpractice lawsuit.

Medical malpractice is a highly specialized area of the law. Robert Zimmerman Sr. is not even an attorney.

I'm betting that Robert accompanied his son to the doctor's office -- so even if the doctor and father were not friends, Zimmerman Sr. still could have been very influential about the kind of medical evaluation that was necessary to protect his son.

imo
 
All I know is at some point, not everything can be a coverup. At some point you have to look at the evidence and ask if things that were initially thought to have happened, really didn't happen that way.

Thank you. I am mostly just following this thread and not participating but I am just astonished that now we have accusations that the doctor lied for GZ. :what: There is absolutely no evidence of that. What if the EMT reports the same as the doctor? Are they lying and covering for him too?

I am not saying that there won't be evidence come out that proves GZ pursued and killed TM without provocation, but right now there it hasn't happened and I don't think it is fair to convict not only him, but every other person that is involved in this case. JMO and all that.
 
Where I am from, DO's are as common as MD's. To say that they 'specialize' in osteopathy is a bit of a mischaracterization. While in the most technical sense that may be true, they tend to function much like MD's. They deliver babies, specialize in various types of surgery (orthapedic, etc.), and dx cancer, among other things.

If this was a DO he or his spouse considered to be their primary care physician - or even a Dr. one of them had seen previously for something small, I can certainly see why he'd go see someone familiar after an event such as this.

The article I referenced above states that he went in to be cleared to return to work. To me, that indicates two things. 1) He had no clue the firestorm was coming. He was just wanting to get back to his job - to his normal life; and 2) his injuries looked bad enough that he needed official proof that they would not preclude him from working.

Hasn't it been reported that he hastily packed up his belongings and moved out of his rental the day after the shooting?
 
bbm

I believe you might be misinformed. Yes, George had called the police about several Black boys/men ... but I do not remember that he ever followed and/or confronted ANY of them.

The other times he was suspicious of Black men, he did what he was supposed to do as a law abiding neighborhood watch captain. He informed the Sanford PD, stayed safely at home and let the trained police pursue the *up-to-no-good Black guys.*

Absolutely something was different with Trayvon. All the other suspicious Black guys were a$$hol*s who the Sanford cops allowed to get away.

According to Taaffe, "George was fed-up and angry and wasn't going to take it anymore." George made sure THIS Black *potential burglar,* 17 year old Trayvon Martin, did NOT get away. _ :furious:

imo

You are approaching this from the paradigm that the primary element of suspicion was race.

A significant percentage of the population of the neighborhood is Black. IIRC, it's something like 25%. That means that one in four residents walking around would have qualified as 'suspicious' in GZ's eyes if race were the determining factor.

I have no evidence to support this assumption on my part, but I believe if GZ had noticed an unfamiliar-to-the-neighborhood white male of the same age walking around - seemingly aimlessly - in the rain after dark that GZ would have called in to report that individual, as well.

Unless I am mistaken, not all of the reports GZ made were about Black males.

Your assumption is that the term ***holes refers to young Black men. It is also plausible that he was simply referencing kids who entered the neighborhood to make mischief, in general, and not specifically young men of a specific race.
 
Hasn't it been reported that he hastily packed up his belongings and moved out of his rental the day after the shooting?

I have not read that anywhere. Doesn't mean it isn't accurate...but if it is, I am not aware of it.
 
I have not read that anywhere. Doesn't mean it isn't accurate...but if it is, I am not aware of it.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...1zx-20120403_1_police-cruiser-squad-car-son/2

"The day after, he went into his job to let them know what
was going on," said Oliver, who has spoken to Zimmerman at least
twice since the shooting. "That is the last I know of anyone
seeing George."

Zimmerman and his wife moved out of the townhouse they
rented in the Twin Lakes complex almost immediately, Oliver
said, and they are now living in seclusion.
 
Hasn't it been reported that he hastily packed up his belongings and moved out of his rental the day after the shooting?


Here is another article, but not sure of the exact date he moved --

"Zimmerman's father delivered a letter to the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday, saying the way his son is being depicted in the media is cruel and misleading.
He also says his son has received death threats and moved out of his home"


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2116972/Trayvon-Martin-shooting-George-Zimmerman-wanted-cop.html
 
Certainly LE took a frontal photo of GZ and that would show some indication of injury!
 
Certainly LE took a frontal photo of GZ and that would show some indication of injury!

One would think so. But remember, this is the Sanford PD we're talking about. If there are not clear and detailed photos of George from all angles, I believe that will tell us a lot!
 
The old saying, "A picture is worth a thousand words," convinces me that something is wrong here. The surveillance video shows a George Zimmerman "Bopping" (Excuse me, I couldn't resist) along in the PD, getting out of the patrol car unassisted, not a mark on him. Of course later the "Enhanced video" showed a big red "X" on top of his head which is questionable, at least to me, because the top of his head could not have been injured had the altercation happened the way he claims. The injuries to the back of his head were minor and did not require sutures, according to the doctor he saw the next day, contrary to the claim that they were already healing and would have to be cut open to suture back together. (Although I've heard that with some broken bones growing back together crookedly, a doctor must "rebreak" them to set them straight.) So the only definite injury of any import in the doctor's report were the black eyes. Usually a minor injury requiring no treatment. I don't see that as proof that the black eyes could have made him "Fear for his life." In fact, since there's no proof that he even had a broken nose (and doesn't the doctor have his own x-ray machine?) Without further tests i.e. a CAT scan or MRI or just plain old xrays, how could it be determined he had no broken nose? Had a broken nose been suspected, other than Zimmerman's. "I think my nose is broken," why not an xray there in the doctor's office? And if the doctor had no expertise to read an xray, why did he have an xray machine? IMO these injuries as described by the osteopath are minor injuries, certainly not serious enough to make GZ "Fear for his life," unless he's some kind of wuss. I personally think he is, a man who, it is reported would throw a woman across the room panics when someone as strong as he resists his attempt to detain him. I don't know but maybe carrying a gun made him feel more "Manly" and maybe even a bit taller. And for the first time when someone might have fought back, and note the operative words here are, "Fought back, he got his chance to use his gun.
Nopey, nope, nope. IMO he killed Trayvon Martin not because he feared for his life, but because TM would not allow him to detain him. And the reason he had never shot someone before, you ask? Because it was the first time he decided he wouldn't let this "*advertiser censored**h**e get away." And even if he didn't hate all persons of African-American descent, he certainly hated this one. And, IMO, he hated him because he was black. He fit the description of the ones who got away. Human beings are not fish which "Get away," to be bragged about later as I believe GZ thought he would be doing. He needs to answer for his thoughtlessly taking another human's life and he needs to pay severely, IMO.

Great post, Lovelymountains!

I totally agree with you.

Furthermore, I believe Trayvon had time to tell Zimmerman that he was on his way home to his dad's girlfriend's condo and had just come from 7-11.

I think George already had his gun pulled on Trayvon and realized he had made an extremely embarrassing mistake -- one that could get HIM put in jail for brandishing a weapon and unlawfully detaining a minor.

Therefore, George eliminated the evidence by pulling the trigger.

Dead men, after all, can tell no tales.

imo
 
Great post, Lovelymountains!

I totally agree with you.

Furthermore, I believe Trayvon had time to tell Zimmerman that he was on his way home to his dad's girlfriend's condo and had just come from 7-11.

I think George already had his gun pulled on Trayvon and realized he had made an extremely embarrassing mistake -- one that could get HIM put in jail for brandishing a weapon and unlawfully detaining a minor.

Therefore, George eliminated the evidence by pulling the trigger.

Dead men, after all, can tell no tales.

imo

I hadn't thought of that. You could be right that Trayvon did explain that he was visiting and on his way home to his dad's girlfriend's condo, etc. Why wouldn't he? But GZ was determined that TM was a criminal, and what does one do with criminals? Detain them. Or shoot them.
Or maybe the reasonable thing that most people would do, call LE and stay away.
 
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