What evidence does the prosecution have?

[Phoenixfla]

There were only three streets in the whole community. Long Oak Way, Twin Trees and Retreat View Circle. Even I can remember that. lol

Are you POSITIVE there are only three streets in the whole community?

 

[who]

Are you POSITIVE there are only three streets in the whole community?

Er, Yes.

 

[suspicious1]

You are certainly entitled to that opinion. But GZ's claim to be looking for an address is still plausible. I get that some consider it an excuse, but it's a plausible excuse.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

I just don't think it's plausible because he could've gotten an address from the homes he passed walking toward the " T". Why would he need the address from a home on the other side? That makes no sense to me. He needed a reason to continue following Trayvon. JMO

 

[LambChop]

Are you POSITIVE there are only three streets in the whole community?

Yes, one of those roads GZ lives on. That leave a whole two to remember. jmo

 

[Concerned Papa]

Is this a possibility?

GZ circles the condo when getting the address and then passes between that building and the next one making his way back to the sidewalk and then while heading back to the T encounters TM?

Certainly it's a possibility. It seems a much more likely explanation, considering where it appears the body was found, than any other, IMO.

The glaring question for me, however, is why has no one ever mentioned it in any of their dialogue?

If it actually happened as you have suggested, why did Robert Zimmerman Sr. feel it necessary say the following in his Sean Hannity interview?

When the dispatcher said we know longer need you to do that, and George acknowledged OK. He no longer knew where Trayvon was. So he continued walking down the sidewalk directly in front of him to the next street to get an address. He got an address.

As he was walking back to his vehicle, there was a sidewalk that goes to his left and Trayvon came from that area where the sidewalks meet. He asked my son if he had a problem, and George said, no, I don't have a problem. Trayvon said, well, you do now. He punched him in the face, broke his nose, knocked him to the sidewalk, and got on him and started beating him.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hanni...-trayvon-martin-shooting?page=2#ixzz1uHPDI4wG

Why has every spoken word accounting for George's path of movement that night failed to mention his being anywhere but on that sidewalk?

 

[Concerned Papa]

One KEY piece of evidence the State has is a gun; George Zimmerman's 8 shot, 9 mm, Kel Tek PF 9.

An AUTOMATIC 8 shot weapon that was recovered with a FULL 7 shot magazine and an empty chamber:

Police found a single shell casing at the scene, and when they seized George Zimmerman's handgun, a Kel Tec 9 mm, its magazine was full, according to a source close to the investigation. The only bullet missing was the one in the chamber, the source said.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...ing-shot-college-students-single-shell-casing

All the gun aficionados I've seen posting here about the mechanical workings of a gun should consider what that could be telling us.

 

[AJ Noiter]

One KEY piece of evidence the State has is a gun; George Zimmerman's 8 shot, 9 mm, Kel Tek PF 9.

An AUTOMATIC 8 shot weapon that was recovered with a FULL 7 shot magazine and an empty chamber:



All the gun aficionados I've seen posting here about the mechanical workings of a gun should consider what that could be telling us.

One possibility is the slide mechanism being obstructed somehow. Another might be an obstruction between the chamber and the next round, though I'd expect police to identify this if that were the case (and they noticed it).

 

[Concerned Papa]

One possibility is the slide mechanism being obstructed somehow. Another might be an obstruction between the chamber and the next round, though I'd expect police to identify this if that were the case (and they noticed it).

Wouldn't you agree that the slide mechanism being obstructed in some manner would be the more likely of the two scenarios you have accurately suggested?

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

It's very strange to me that this account about 'circling the car' has just been added recently to the GZ narrative, and there is nothing to back this up on the LE call that night. GZ was obviously giving the dispatcher a play by play of everything suspicious in his mind about Trayvon. I wonder if it was in his first LE statements...and why add this now...just to offer more 'proof' that he was 'in fear' of Trayvon?..might be another discrepancy the prosecutor can use to question what he says....


All IMO

IMO, after the dispatcher told him not to follow, he had to give some reason for continuing to be out of his truck and walking...when he was really still following/searching for Trayvon....I don't think he looked for an address at this 3 street community he had been patrolling and walking with his dog for the past several years....GMAB

I just don't think it's plausible because he could've gotten an address from the homes he passed walking toward the " T". Why would he need the address from a home on the other side? That makes no sense to me. He needed a reason to continue following Trayvon. JMO

BBM

So that another A&&hole wound't get away...

Why is he adding these little comments now, because he has to have the self defense on his side, when in all actuality, it was TM in the greatest fear, is my belief.

I truly doubt the circuling the vehicle due to TM wanting to get away from this guy who he noticed was following him..I believe GZ and his family and friends are embellishing and diminishing GZ's actions/behaviors knowing he's facing murder charges. They all thought this would all go away..

I also doubt the extent of his injuries since he didn't go to the hospital that night. I wonder WHEN he made the trip to the hospital...would he be the type to have someone else hit him, after the fact to make it appear it was TM who did damage to him? I don't trust a word from GZ's mouth, his family's mouths or his advocates...they will stand by GZ as they stand by the SYG statute.

I believe SPD dropped the ball that night not arresting him, which is why there is such a divide on who is the true victim in this. For me, I believe the only victim is TM..It doesn't compute that an adult with a loaded weapon with bullets meant to do damage was in this great fear...

BERNARDO DE LA RIONDA, ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY: Sir, you were asked about the next paragraph here that Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued and you were asked a lot about what "confronted" means. If Mr. Martin was minding his own business and was going home and somebody comes up to him and starts accusing him (inaudible), wouldn't you consider that a confrontation?

GILBREATH: Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: That is, Mr. Martin didn't turn around and start -- he was minding his own business and Mr. Zimmerman's the one that approached Mr. Martin, correct?

O'MARA: Let me object at this point you honor. Though great leeway is given and I guess this is cross-examination, the concern is that he's talking now about evidence that is completely not in evidence.

JUDGE KENNETH LESTER, JR., FLORIDA CIRCUIT COURT: What's the objection?

O'MARA: The objection is he is presenting facts that are not in evidence to the witness.

LESTER: Sustained.

DE LA RIONDA: Why did you use the word "confronted" sir?

GILBREATH: Because Zimmerman met with Martin and it was compiling the facts that we had along with the witness statements of the argumentative voices and the authoritative voice being given from one of the witnesses and then the struggle that ensued that came from several witnesses.

DE LA RIONDA: But prior to that confrontation, Mr. Martin was minding his own business? Is that correct?

O'MARA: Again, your honor, we point to -- and this is not in evidence and he cannot present it that way to the witness.

LESTER: Sustained.

DE LA RIONDA: Mr. Martin, the route he was taking was towards his house, correct?

GILBREATH: Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: And he was unarmed?

GILBREATH: Yes.

(later)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So do you know who started the fight?

GILBREATH: Do I know?

O'MARA: Right.

GILBREATH: No.

O'MARA: Do you have any evidence that supports who may have started the fight?

GILBREATH: No.

(later)

O'MARA: That statement that he had given you -- sorry, law enforcement that day, that we just talked about, turning around and that he was assaulted, do you have any evidence in your investigation to date that specifically contradicts either of those two pieces of evidence that were in his statement given several hours after the event?

GILBREATH: Which two?

O'MARA: That he turned back to his car. We'll start with that one.

GILBREATH: I have nothing to indicate he did not or did not to that.

O'MARA: My question was do you have any evidence to contradict or that conflicts with his contention given before he knew any of the evidence that would conflict with the fact that he stated I walked back to my car?

GILBREATH: No.

O'MARA: No evidence. Correct?

GILBREATH: Understanding -- are you talking about at that point in time?

O'MARA: Since. Today. Do you have any evidence that conflicts with his suggestion that he had turned around and went back to his car?

GILBREATH: Other than his statement, no.

O'MARA: Any evidence that conflicts with that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He answered it. He said no.

O'MARA: Any evidence that conflicts any eyewitnesses, anything that conflicts with the contention that Mr. Martin assaulted first?

GILBREATH: That contention that was given to us by him, other than filling in the figures being one following or chasing the other one, as to who threw the first blow, no.

(later)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he gave -- he the defendant gave numerous interviews to the police did he not.

GILBREATH: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And isn't it true that a lot of statements that he made do not make sense in terms of the injuries that he described. Did he not describe to the police that Mr. Martin had him on the ground and kept bashing his head on the concrete over and over and just physically beating him with his hands?

GILBREATH: He has said that, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And isn't it true that there is evidence that indicates that's not true?

GILBREATH: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he also not state that at some point, he the defendant -- did he not state or claim that the victim in this case, Mr. Martin, put both hands one over his mouth and one over his nose so that he couldn't breathe?

GILBREATH: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And all of sudden that's when he was able to get free and grab the gun. Or I'm sorry, Martin was grabbing for the gun, did he not claim that too at some point. climb that?

GILBREATH: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But -- and I'm going to get into every little contradiction but wouldn't you agree that a lot of his statements can be contradicted by the evidence either witnesses or just based on what he says himself?

GILBREATH: Yes.

http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/new...t.html?cid=6a00d83451b4ba69e20167658b18f2970b


This was to be a hearing on bond. I believe MOM ambushed the state when he started talking evidence, they weren't prepared for it and possibly didn't want to give the defense the information on what evidence contradicts GZ's different statements at that time. It appears DG didn't have his reports needed to give more details on what evidence contradicts GZ's statements..and feel GZ added these details in an effort to give him SYG defense status, embellished to the point of disbelief. His injuries didn't match the evidence given or taken from the crime scene or from TM's body, itself..

I await a document dump to put this all to rest...but as it stands now, I believe GZ set out to do harm to the next a&&hole he came upon..for the police always let them get away...

Excited utterances will be hard for GZ to explain away...

I believe excited utterances to be the same as a drunk man who speaks a sober mind! It tells it true...:maddening:

Justice for Trayvon Martin

 

[AJ Noiter]

Wouldn't you agree that the slide mechanism being obstructed in some manner would be the more likely of the two scenarios you have accurately suggested?

I'd rather not say definitively, to be honest.

If it were something obstructing the slide, it would be something obstructing from the rear, as if the weapon were up against something. This would make me wonder if there are any injuries to Mr. Martin's hand - if so, this could show that he was trying to pull the weapon away from Mr. Zimmerman.

 

[Concerned Papa]

I'd rather not say definitively, to be honest.

If it were something obstructing the slide, it would be something obstructing from the rear, as if the weapon were up against something. This would make me wonder if there are any injuries to Mr. Martin's hand - if so, this could show that he was trying to pull the weapon away from Mr. Zimmerman.

BBM

Once again, an accurate observation that I tend to agree with. I found this at a gun site that supports what you are saying:

One thing that can cause that is another man’s hand wrapped around the pistol, retarding its slide mechanism. This would indicate, as could certain gunshot residue patterns or cuts in certain places if found on Trayvon Martin’s hand(s), that a struggle for a gun was taking place when the fatal shot was fired.

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/Mass...mmerman-and-trayvon-martin-what-we-dont-know/

As small as this model is, a hand could easily surround the slide mechanism during a struggle and *advertiser censored* it's function.

 

[who]

I'd rather not say definitively, to be honest.

If it were something obstructing the slide, it would be something obstructing from the rear, as if the weapon were up against something. This would make me wonder if there are any injuries to Mr. Martin's hand - if so, this could show that he was trying to pull the weapon away from Mr. Zimmerman.

However, we have been informed the gun struggle does not corroborate with the evidence.

Zimmerman also told police, the source told the Sentinel, that while the two were on the ground, Trayvon reached for Zimmerman's gun, and the two struggled over it.


Those portions of Zimmerman's account are not corroborated by other evidence, the source said.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...secutor-angela-corey-source-police-department

 

[AJ Noiter]

However, we have been informed the gun struggle does not corroborate with the evidence.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...secutor-angela-corey-source-police-department

I'd assume the source to be part of the prosecution, I haven't read the article. If we are to believe everything they state then there is no reason to investigate this case as they've already done it for us.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

However, we have been informed the gun struggle does not corroborate with the evidence.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...secutor-angela-corey-source-police-department

I believe the ME report, TM's body were tested and doesn't stand up to what GZ's claim is...the SP is privy to those reports and believe they tested and found it inconsistent with GZ's words and the evidence from the crime scene...which is a good thing for Trayvon Martin's justice...

 

[who]

I'd assume the source to be part of the prosecution, I haven't read the article. If we are to believe everything they state then there is no reason to investigate this case as they've already done it for us.

<modsnip>
Isn't investigating the case pretty much their job?

 

[RANCH]

I believe the ME report, TM's body were tested and doesn't stand up to what GZ's claim is...the SP is privy to those reports and believe they tested and found it inconsistent with GZ's words and the evidence from the crime scene...which is a good thing for Trayvon Martin's justice...

I think that I will wait until the ME report itself is released before I try to draw any conclusions from it.

The state can come to whatever conclusion they want, but sometimes evidence is open to interpretation. JMO.

 

[AJ Noiter]

<modsnip> Isn't investigating the case pretty much their job?

According to many, the investigators did ignore the facts initially. They can do it initially but not after that?

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Here is what Robert Zimmerman said is his son’s explanation: Trayvon was on top, punching and slamming his head into the paved sidewalk. When nobody answered his calls for help, he tried to slide onto the grass. But in doing so, the holstered gun in his waistband became visible.

“It is a little bit cloudy,” the father said. “But George believes Trayvon saw the pistol, was going to get it, and said, ‘You are going to die tonight.’ Shortly after that, George drew the pistol and shot him.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/u...s-a-review-of-ideals.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

Now it turns into a struggle for the weapon...when he told his father, he believes TM saw his gun and was going to get it...

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I think that I will wait until the ME report itself is released before I try to draw any conclusions from it.

The state can come to whatever conclusion they want, but sometimes evidence is open to interpretation. JMO.

BBM

Evidence doesn't lie, people do...

 

[Phoenixfla]

Wouldn't you agree that the slide mechanism being obstructed in some manner would be the more likely of the two scenarios you have accurately suggested?

Actually, if the next round was not chambered, but the last casing was ejected, I would think that the most likely scenario was that the slide was not able to move back far enough to pick up the edge of the next round to load it inter the chamber.

If the spent casing was still lodged in the slide, then I think the more likely scenario was that something was covering the ejection port.