What is considered CONTROLLING?

[Anderson]

In many cases one partner withholding sex is considered grounds for divorce. In order to meet the one year requirement in North Carolina, you must live in a separate residence. As long as you are under the same roof, you are not considered separated. My Aunt and Uncle tried to tell a judge they had been separated for one year, when in fact she was living upstairs and he was living downstairs, judge said no way, you are not separated. Also according to most psychologists it is not considered unusual for a husband and wife even in an awful relationship to have sex. Even if you have sex after you are separated it does not restart the clock, move back in together and the clock restarts. So in the eyes of the court a wife or husband withholding sex is considered a breach of marriage contract and controlling behavior. I mean honestly how many women have ever used sex as a bargaining chip with their husband, early in my marriage I threatened to "cut my husband off" if he did not do something I wanted him to do, he politely informed me that I could not cut him off if I did not know where he was getting it from, touché.

Still, given that BC and NC had problems and were separating, I think that we can understand why NC acted in the way that she did. I don't think that NC can be criticized for not wanting to be close to a man that had an affair with her former best friend. Many of BC's control issues were related to slowing down the separation process.

 

[jmflu]

In many cases one partner withholding sex is considered grounds for divorce. In order to meet the one year requirement in North Carolina, you must live in a separate residence. As long as you are under the same roof, you are not considered separated. My Aunt and Uncle tried to tell a judge they had been separated for one year, when in fact she was living upstairs and he was living downstairs, judge said no way, you are not separated. Also according to most psychologists it is not considered unusual for a husband and wife even in an awful relationship to have sex. Even if you have sex after you are separated it does not restart the clock, move back in together and the clock restarts. So in the eyes of the court a wife or husband withholding sex is considered a breach of marriage contract and controlling behavior. I mean honestly how many women have ever used sex as a bargaining chip with their husband, early in my marriage I threatened to "cut my husband off" if he did not do something I wanted him to do, he politely informed me that I could not cut him off if I did not know where he was getting it from, touché.

Touche, indeed!!!
(Now, how did you get that little accent mark above your e?!)

 

[CyberLaw]

I have no doubt Nancy was killed for the very reason that Nancy was trying to start a new life without Brad.

She was controlled, no doubt in my mind. When Nancy wanted a Divorce, that is the ultimate loss of control in the mind of Brad and a significant blow to his personality as "he was at fault" for the breakdown of the marriage. That he is to blame, his actions, his faults. To Brad that is the "ultimate" loss of control and my killing Nancy he gained control not only of the future of Nancy, but the children also.


If a person feels controlled and trapped then they are.

 

[Maja]

http://www.rosen.com/ppf/Law/Divorce/rosen/211/faqs.asp

Seems in North Carolina, sex during separation, on occasion, does not impact the separation rule of one year.

 

[justthinking2008]

Cyberlaw wrote "and my killing Nancy"

Is that a slip or a confession.

 

[Maja]

http://rosen.com/ppf/law/Alimony-Support/rosen/975/videos.asp

Good verbal.

 

[pamlet]

Cyberlaw wrote "and my killing Nancy"

Is that a slip or a confession.

I think it was a typo... ... he/she used right index finger instead of right..

 

[RKAB]

Here is a list of Controlling Behaviors as listed in numerous Domestic Violence websites.


Controlling Behaviors

Batterers have many ways of manipulating and controlling their partners. Battering behavior often "starts small" and escalates to more severe abuse. Abuse also can go through a series of cycles, with each successive period of abuse more extreme than the last.

* VERBAL ABUSE
o Name-calling, put-downs, insults
o Making degrading comments, i.e. "you can't do anything right"
o Yelling and swearing

* FINANCIAL ABUSE
o Controlling all decisions about money
o Taking any money earned by partner
o Keeping everything in the batterer's name
o Preventing partner from working or getting more training and education
o Emptying bank accounts, spending money on self
o Doling out an "allowance" only when partner is compliant
o Making partner financially dependent and helpless
o Compulsive gambling or spending, running up credit card debts
o Destroying partner's credit rating

* USING GENDER ROLES TO DOMINATE
o Claiming religious or cultural traditions to justify dominating partner
o Giving commands and orders
o Always claiming to be right
o (Heterosexual female) Claiming that men are inferior, "pigs" or "the oppressors"
o (Heterosexual male) Claiming male superiority and "rationality"
o (Gay/lesbian) Claiming batterer should be in control because he or she is more "butch"
o (Gay/lesbian) Ridiculing partner for being "too butch," "too femme," or "too stereotyped," "flaming," etc.

* PSYCHOLOGICAL ABUSE
o Playing mind-games
o Ignoring the partner's feelings
o "Twisting things around," blaming the partner for the abuse
o Minimizing the abuse, telling partner that "it's not that bad"
o Exploiting advantages in intelligence or education, ridiculing partner for differences
o Using "reason" to "logically" attack partner's feelings, opinions, or beliefs

* SPIRITUAL ABUSE
o Claiming spiritual authority for abuse or domination
o Belittling or criticizing partner's spiritual beliefs, religion or church
o Belittling or criticizing partner's religious heritage or family's religion
o Not allowing partner to follow own worship or spiritual practices
o Using "logic" and "reasoning" to attack partner's beliefs
o Forcing partner to adopt batterer's own belief system and practices
o Forcing partner to become part of an abusive cult
o Threatening to expose partner's belief in a minority religion to people she (he) doesn't want to know about it
o Threatening to use partner's spiritual beliefs or religion to get custody of children

* ISOLATION
o Monitoring and/or restricting telephone calls (and/or e-mail, etc)
o Limiting or cutting off contact with the partner's friends and family
o Humiliating partner or acting out in front of partner's friends so they stay away; threatening or intimidating partner's friends
o Restricting or denying partner's access to transportation
o Forcing partner to move to isolated location
o Monitoring all mail
o Forcing partner to quit job, volunteer work, etc
o Forcing partner to cut back on work hours or change jobs "to spend more time with me"
o Insisting on going everywhere with partner

* INTIMIDATION
o Using greater size and strength to instill fear
o Blocking exits, "cornering" partner, locking doors
o Destroying valued possessions, furniture or property
o Threatening to harm children or pets
o Threatening to report partner to social services for abusing children
o Threatening to harm family or friends for helping partner
o Threatening to turn in a partner for a petty crime, being an illegal immigrant, using drugs, etc
o (gay/lesbian) Threatening to "out" partner to family or employers
o Using threatening looks and gestures (raised fist, etc)
o Displaying or talking about weapons
o Threatening suicide if partner leaves or tries to make changes

* SEXUAL ABUSE
o Using coercion or force to get sex when partner doesn't want it
o Physically attacking and hurting specific body parts (genitals, breasts, etc)
o Preventing the use of birth control and/or safe sex practices

* PHYSICAL ABUSE
o Pushing, throwing objects, tripping
o Hitting, choking, pulling hair, dragging partner, throwing partner into walls or onto the floor
o Coercing or forcing partner to use drugs or alcohol against his or her will
o Hurting or killing pets
o Abusing partner's children
o Using a weapon against partner
o Murdering partner's children
o Murdering partner

Bolding is mine. I'm only here for a minute (I actually have to get some work done today ) . Nuf said.

 

[cygnusx1]

People keep bringing up withholding sex as a control issue. But they were in a divorce situation.

They weren't in a divorce situation for two years; they had just started divorce proceedings in March. NC bragged she had cut him off. BC said they had not been intimate for two years.

 

[ncsu95]

People keep bringing up withholding sex as a control issue. But they were in a divorce situation. In NC, there is a 1 year waiting period between filing and finalizing the decree. Sex would restart that clock. And yes, the judge asks. Even though there was no filing, there was an emotional separation. I doubt that physical intimacy was desirable from either side as it was such a contentious relationship. Can't see it as 'withholding".

It is when she makes a point to tell others that she "cut him off". I wouldn't expect her to have sex with him in a divorce situation, but she went out of her way to tell other people she cut him off. Was that to humiliate him?

 

[ncsu95]

Bolding is mine. I'm only here for a minute (I actually have to get some work done today ) . Nuf said.

You're right...several of those could be applied to Nancy Coopers behavior. Thanks for sharing them.

 

[justthinking2008]

You're right...several of those could be applied to Nancy Coopers behavior. Thanks for sharing them.

Good point NCSU, exactly what I thinking. Both of these individuals are guilty of exhibiting controlling behavior. The difference is Brad did not go around telling everyone that would listen exaggerated stories of his marriage behind closed doors. And before you beat me up about NC being given to exaggeration, one of the affidavits says she was given to telling exaggerations to make a story sound better, another form of control.

 

[RKAB]

You're right...several of those could be applied to Nancy Coopers behavior. Thanks for sharing them.

My apologies, I guess I should have clarified. I am pointing out behaviours of BC that I've witnessed. Please do not apply my bolding in that statement as saying I am referring to Nancy. I am absolutely not.

 

[Anderson]

You're right...several of those could be applied to Nancy Coopers behavior. Thanks for sharing them.

How on earth would you come up with that comment? What is the basis for your comment? If you have a reason to say anything along these lines then there would have to be some evidence. I seriously doubt that your comment does have any truth to it. And what would it mean if your comment had any factual basis? Are you suggesting that NC deserved to be murdered? Please remember that she is the victim here. There is no reason to attack NC.

RKAB was in a relationship with BC. I suspect that the bolded points pertain to that.

 

[RaleighNC]

Please note - I am not blaming the victim. NO ONE DESERVES TO BE MURDERED. And I still believe she died at the hands of Brad Cooper.

HOWEVER...... (and I am sure this will not be popular)

These were 2 folks that were adept at pushing each other's buttons. These were 2 people, that I submit had NO BUSINESS being married. According to witnesses and testimony that is not being disputed - BOTH of them had at least one affair. NC's early on and Brad's later.

If they could not commit to each other - they probably had no business bringing children into this world.

Their financial behaviors were very bad. It's one thing to spend like idiots when you are single, or there are just the 2 of you, but once you have children it's a different game. They were likely headed for bankruptcy. Brad admitted they fought about money. Nancy told her friends they fought about money. Fights about money are U-G-L-Y. This could not be a healthy environment for children. This living beyond the means was going on for years - each bonus from Cisco, or built up stock options, or stock purchase or parental bailout solved the problem SHORT TERM, but then the spending appeared to escalate - Who in their right mind would think that spending one month's take home pay on a PAINTING is reasonable when you are contributing 4% to your 401K/ And who the heck would make this decision against the express disagreement of the other party (who just happens to be the one making the money????) tell me you would not have removed her access to money and credit cards in that same situation? I sure would have.

This I see as an escalation of the arguments during the time prior to Nancy saying that the marriage was over (early 2008). It was pretty darn bold behavior for someone that was "trapped" and felt "controlled". I believe that she was gaining power. Brad's "control" was lessening. Something was giving her strength.

Her sister likely saw the escalating behavior and Nancy likely downplayed it because she was feeling confident that she could handle him. Her parents may have felt like Nancy was gaining control and taking steps to get out - all a positive - all leading to lessen their concerns. KL probably SAW the escalating tensions and worried for Nancy - DESPITE Nancy's growing strength. So KL got more worried, and the Rentz's less.

The environment in that home had to be HORRENDOUS - and the children pick up on that stuff. I think things became about WINNING - either custody, money, status, friends, or whatever more than it did about getting out and doing what's best for the children.

Yet another reason why I find this so sad.

 

[justthinking2008]

Anderson,

Read the affidavits, examples as put forth in RKAB post are there in black and white as to some of NC's behaviors, as I stated in another post, it is all "he said, she said". Of course NC did not deserve to be murdered, I do not think anyone meant to imply that, I certainly did not. Simply put she had her controlling behaviors as well, but wait, she was a human being and some less than desirable behavior comes from all us, BC and NC included.

 

[justthinking2008]

I have a question, being in the banking industry I know a thing or two about joint accounts and joint credit. When BC removed NC from the accounts and credit cards, she had to give her permission for him to do so. You cannot add or subtract someone from an account if they do not give their permission. Many times in the case of credit a bank will not allow one of the applicants to be removed without completely closing the account and opening a new one, again to close an account both applicants have to agree to it. SO...how did he remove her without her permission, any thoughts? Could it be that she did agree because she knew the situation they were getting into and agreed to the controls, but told her friends otherwise in order to keep up appearances. I agree with Raleigh, they were headed to BK in a hurry, and that would be hard for them to explain to their well to do friends. Again, another control issue or damage control issue, either way control just the same on both parts.

 

[justthinking2008]

JMFLU,

I do not doubt RKAB words, but all of us are guilty of unfavorable behavior at times, especially during times of stress. I am sure he did the things she said, NC's friends have told similar stories, but again only told from NC's side. BC has a side too, and his friends and family say she is guilty of some the behaviors listed, still he said, she said, even from RKAB.

 

[ncsu95]

How on earth would you come up with that comment? What is the basis for your comment? If you have a reason to say anything along these lines then there would have to be some evidence. I seriously doubt that your comment does have any truth to it. And what would it mean if your comment had any factual basis? Are you suggesting that NC deserved to be murdered? Please remember that she is the victim here. There is no reason to attack NC.

RKAB was in a relationship with BC. I suspect that the bolded points pertain to that.

I know why RKAB posted it. I'm simply pointing out that many of the things she had bolded would apply to NCs behavior towards BC as well. So the control went both ways. I am not attacking NC. I am not even remotely suggesting she deserved to be murdered. However, if everyone is going to point out the way BC controlled NC, then it is fair to say that NC also controlled BC. And remember, BC has not been charged with a crime, so you are making comments about someone that still has the presumption of innocence from our legal system.

 

[ncsu95]

It's not all "he said/ she said." RKAB dated Brad. She is telling us directly that she witnessed these behaviors.

And BC told us directly (via deposition and affidavits) about Nancy's behavior. So why is it wrong for me to point out the same type of behavior just because she was murdered? We are talking about behavior on both of there parts from before July 12th, 2008. It's a fair discussion in a thread titled "what is considered CONTROLLING?".