What is your #1 top indicator that Terri IS responsible for Kyron's disappearance?

[liz b.]

None of this is happening in a vacuum.

Sometimes, when people are under intense stress, they self-destruct or do things they wouldn't normally do. Some people use booze, drugs, food, their credit cards, and some people use sex. IMHO, that's what makes the analysis of Terri's behavior so difficult -- is her sexting Michael Cook reflective of her true personality and does that have any real bearing on Kyron's disappearance, or is it reflective of an extremely bad choice when dealing with unusual and extraordinary stress?

She could've been sexting because she's glad Kyron's gone. She murdered him, and she's moving on.

She could've been sexting because she's glad Kyron's gone, but she didn't murder him.

She could've been sexting because she has unhealthy views about sex.

She could've been sexting because she enjoys male attention.

She could've been sexting because she has unhealthy views about sex, her husband left her, took the baby, filed for divorce and a restraining order, and Michael Cook preyed on an emotionally vulnerable woman.

She could've been sexting because Kyron was missing and sex is what she uses to distract herself from things she doesn't want to think about.

It could be all, some, a combination of, or none of these things. To apply a simplistic answer to a complex situation is a mistake, IMHO.

TY for sharing your logic and common sense here


All JMO

 

[Amster]

lol...baby K raised by a daddy who "loathes"her mommy....or raised by a mommy who "loathes" her daddy. Seems to me that the loathing by Terri is a lot more dangerous than the loathing by Kaine.

 

[debs]

lol...baby K raised by a daddy who "loathes"her mommy....or raised by a mommy who "loathes" her daddy. Seems to me that the loathing by Terri is a lot more dangerous than the loathing by Kaine.

Sorry, but we've neither seen nor heard any proof of that. Kaine's "opinion" is well documented.

 

[Billylee]

From what I have read, there are no future dates regarding custody of baby K at all. The September date is about contempt and custody cannot be modified via that hearing. Further, TH is seeking to abate the entire dissolution proceeding (except status), which means she wants no orders issued in the case at all, including custody. Custody and visitation was set in connection with the RO. TH not only has made not one move to modify those orders, she actually took steps( abatement) to make sure those orders would not be changed any time in the foreseeable future.
But you are completely right. She is being smart in her tactics because talking or addressing the allegations can only lead to jail time, IMO. (Of course that's because I think she is guilty of something).

What is the August 25 court date about? Isn't it about the RO, and wasn't the RO solely based upon the Murder for Hire Plot? Wouldn't it be her attorney who helps her make the decisions? Terri's email to KH:

"OK, I love you but this is ridiculous. What you are doing is parental child abduction and is illegal. I need to know where my daughter is and if she is safe. You were really upset with me when you left. What is it that I/we need to do to reconcile this? I don't want to call 911 but I need a resolution please. If I don't hear from you in an hour I will call 911," Terri Horman wrote to Kaine Horman.

About an hour later, Terri Horman e-mailed a friend and said she called 911 but was directed to a non-emergency dispatcher.

"Guess what? Since we are married we have joint custody and he can do that. Gee, too bad I didn't know that," she wrote.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24581546/detail.html

This email to Kaine tells me she wants her baby back. And after that, this next email to her friend tells me she talked with a lawyer or someone who knew the law, and she now realizes this is a LEGAL issue. IMO, she was then and has since been acting on the advice of her attorney. I don't know why her attorney would recommend abatement, but I'll bet there is a legal reason, I know KH's attorney was AGAINST it. Perhaps this is a question for our legal folks?

 

[gitana1]

What is the August 25 court date about? Isn't it about the RO, and wasn't the RO solely based upon the Murder for Hire Plot? Wouldn't it be her attorney who helps her make the decisions? Terri's email to KH:

"OK, I love you but this is ridiculous. What you are doing is parental child abduction and is illegal. I need to know where my daughter is and if she is safe. You were really upset with me when you left. What is it that I/we need to do to reconcile this? I don't want to call 911 but I need a resolution please. If I don't hear from you in an hour I will call 911," Terri Horman wrote to Kaine Horman.

About an hour later, Terri Horman e-mailed a friend and said she called 911 but was directed to a non-emergency dispatcher.

"Guess what? Since we are married we have joint custody and he can do that. Gee, too bad I didn't know that," she wrote.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24581546/detail.html

This email to Kaine tells me she wants her baby back. And after that, this next email to her friend tells me she talked with a lawyer or someone who knew the law, and she now realizes this is a LEGAL issue. IMO, she was then and has since been acting on the advice of her attorney. I don't know why her attorney would recommend abatement, but I'll bet there is a legal reason, I know KH's attorney was AGAINST it. Perhaps this is a question for our legal folks?

To my knowledge, there are no pending hearings regarding child custody. Period. There is one to do with her abatement motion and one to do with his contempt motion. That's it.

Also, remember that TH's e-mail regarding wanting her baby back came before Kaine filed his RO application with the allegations included. TH has been as silent as if her vocal chords had been cut, since then.

Yes, there is a sound legal reason for the abatement. Questions asked and information gleaned in connection with various different issues to be dealt with in the divorce may be used to incriminate TH in connection with a possible criminal prosecution. KH and his attorneys have been utilizing the disso process to get answers from TH regarding Kyron's disappearance. TH's attorneys want that to stop which is good advice if she has committed a crime.

 

[Billylee]

I may be wrong, but what I'm trying to get at is TH is acting solely on legal advice. I think she got legal advice before she emailed that friend, which was only an hour after she wrote the email to Kaine. That's why she says the Guess what? it's legal for Kaine to take babyK, because she talked to a lawyer (or hired one) during that hour and since then, she has been silenced by her lawyer. I also don't think that KH filing the RO would make her want her baby any less. JMO

 

[krowdkat]

I may be wrong, but what I'm trying to get at is TH is acting solely on legal advice. I think she got legal advice before she emailed that friend, which was only an hour after she wrote the email to Kaine. That's why she says the Guess what? it's legal for Kaine to take babyK, because she talked to a lawyer (or hired one) during that hour and since then, she has been silenced by her lawyer. I also don't think that KH filing the RO would make her want her baby any less. JMO

Yes, but at least in Michigan, an emergency hearing can be filed at anytime inregards to child custody and visitation. If I told my lawyer that a RO filed against me was bogus and based on lies, you bet your sweet bippy my lawyer would be filing an emergency hearing on behalf of my child the following day. If my lawyer didn't agree, I'd fire him/her and find one who would. Besides, Houze is a criminal defense attorney, he's not her family law attorney as far as I know?!?

 

[wondering1]

I may be wrong, but what I'm trying to get at is TH is acting solely on legal advice. I think she got legal advice before she emailed that friend, which was only an hour after she wrote the email to Kaine. That's why she says the Guess what? it's legal for Kaine to take babyK, because she talked to a lawyer (or hired one) during that hour and since then, she has been silenced by her lawyer. I also don't think that KH filing the RO would make her want her baby any less. JMO

Imo, she got told by whoever answered the non-emergency number that there was absolutely nothing they could do since KH was the father and there was no RO, no divorce and no custody order. They get calls like that all.the.time and are used to dealing with frantic/irate parents demanding that they get their kid back. jmoo

 

[krowdkat]

Imo, she got told by whoever answered the non-emergency number that there was absolutely nothing they could do since KH was the father and there was no RO, no divorce and no custody order. They get calls like that all.the.time and are used to dealing with frantic/irate parents demanding that they get their kid back. jmoo

In my experience, this is so very true. And if you have been ordered visitation, you'd better have that order on hand when you go to pick up your child. LE doesn't typically like to get involved in domestic issues.

My ex moved my kids across the border to Canada. What a nightmare that was for me since Canada LE doesn't recognize court ordered visitation agreements from the US. They were very good to me though and would always come out to make a police report of noncompliance so that I could show the US courts that my ex was breaking the US mandated law inre to my custody/vistation orders.

ETA: It took me three months of driving twice a week for over an hour plus paying tolls to document my case for the US courts. It was the hardest and longest three months of my life. My kids told me that they would see me outside and cry themselves to sleep because the weren't allowed by their father to see me.

I don't see any indication that TH is fighting for hers and baby K's rights. Maybe she is and it's just not being reported. I know if I had a media frenzy at my disposal during my child custody/visitation years, I would have told them everything I was going through just to see my babies.

 

[TxLady2]

This poll has way too many choices. I would say that the #1 indicator for me is the grand jury. I simply cannot believe a DA would present the case to one without some evidence of a crime.
And I hope this GJ doesn't drag on for a year like Drew Peterson's did.

 

[stmarysmead]

What is the August 25 court date about? Isn't it about the RO, and wasn't the RO solely based upon the Murder for Hire Plot? Wouldn't it be her attorney who helps her make the decisions? Terri's email to KH:

"OK, I love you but this is ridiculous. What you are doing is parental child abduction and is illegal. I need to know where my daughter is and if she is safe. You were really upset with me when you left. What is it that I/we need to do to reconcile this? I don't want to call 911 but I need a resolution please. If I don't hear from you in an hour I will call 911," Terri Horman wrote to Kaine Horman.

About an hour later, Terri Horman e-mailed a friend and said she called 911 but was directed to a non-emergency dispatcher.

"Guess what? Since we are married we have joint custody and he can do that. Gee, too bad I didn't know that," she wrote.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24581546/detail.html

This email to Kaine tells me she wants her baby back. And after that, this next email to her friend tells me she talked with a lawyer or someone who knew the law, and she now realizes this is a LEGAL issue. IMO, she was then and has since been acting on the advice of her attorney. I don't know why her attorney would recommend abatement, but I'll bet there is a legal reason, I know KH's attorney was AGAINST it. Perhaps this is a question for our legal folks?

No matter how many excuses one makes for her, how does a woman of any integrity, say she loves her husband, say she wants her Baby back, say she wants resolution, and knows her husband is in horrific pain with his son missing...and then start "sexting" some friend of his?

This is about moral judgements..it's about destructive behavior...complete disregard for your husband's pain...and complete disregard for your own BABY...if Terri believes that Baby loves, misses and needs her.

To me this is just another stunning insight into Terri.

 

[debs]

No matter how many excuses one makes for her, how does a woman of any integrity, say she loves her husband, say she wants her Baby back, say she wants resolution, and knows her husband is in horrific pain with his son missing...and then start "sexting" some friend of his?

This is about moral judgements..it's about destructive behavior...complete disregard for your husband's pain...and complete disregard for your own BABY...if Terri believes that Baby loves, misses and needs her.

To me this is just another stunning insight into Terri.

I need proof it was Terri sending those sexts. I have my very serious doubts.

 

[cypress]

No matter how many excuses one makes for her, how does a woman of any integrity, say she loves her husband, say she wants her Baby back, say she wants resolution, and knows her husband is in horrific pain with his son missing...and then start "sexting" some friend of his?

This is about moral judgements..it's about destructive behavior...complete disregard for your husband's pain...and complete disregard for your own BABY...if Terri believes that Baby loves, misses and needs her.

To me this is just another stunning insight into Terri.

IMHO, context is everything. Her life wasn't progressing normally and suddenly she exhibited bizarre and self-destructive behavior. I think it's unfair to analyze her as if she was in the shallow end of a kiddie pool when her life had, in fact, become a maelstrom.

FWIW, I don't defend her actions, but I think the sexting is explainable in context. From what I've read about Terri, she likes to be in control, as do most of us, and she was something of a perfectionist. In the aftermath of Kyron's disappearance, she had zero control over her life, and sometimes, when people who crave control and stability lose that in their lives, they create substitute situations in which they can feel in control. Also, if she uses sex as a coping mechanism or if it somehow defines her worth, then that is another reason why she may have been vulnerable or resorted to this type of behavior. It's not defensible, because ultimately it's unhealthy, IMHO, but it is understandable. Many people have unhealthy coping mechanisms when dealing with extraordinary or unusual stress -- alcohol, drugs, excessive spending, excessive eating, etc., and we understand the unhealthy ways in which people use these mechanisms as a way to cope. Sex may be less understandable to some of us, or less permissible, but it's still a coping mechanism, IMHO. All of these types of behaviors are destructive. If Terri had proceeded to get wasted at a series of bars, eventually earning another DUI, the discussion would be similar, IMHO, and in that case Houze would've taken her car keys, etc.

 

[krowdkat]

I need proof it was Terri sending those sexts. I have my very serious doubts.

Debs, who else do you suspect sent them? Didn't the sexts happen after Kaine moved out of the home?

LE could easily verify what cell they were being sent from and which cell they were sent to. All a matter of electronic documentation. Didn't the sexts include naughty pics of TH?

 

[debs]

Debs, who else do you suspect sent them? Didn't the sexts happen after Kaine moved out of the home?

LE could easily verify what cell they were being sent from and which cell they were sent to. All a matter of electronic documentation. Didn't the sexts include naughty pics of TH?

LE can verify that the cell that was assigned to Terri by the Bat-phone Three was used to send sextys and naughty bit pics. What I need from LE is proof that it was Terri holding the phone to send those texts, and not someone else. What I know is that recently it was stated that the sextys happened usually late at night. Prove to me that someone else staying in the home didn't pick up that phone and use it to sexty MC. Prove that somehow it isn't all an ugly set up to make Terri look worse so that she'll look like the perp.

As a matter of fact, I believe the only information regarding the sextys that we have in the public domain are tied to MC's cell phone, and this information was released by Kaine Horman and/or his attorney. I'd love to know why MC took this information to Kaine if he was sexting the guy's wife. Suddenly he wants to help the poor guy out???

I need proof it was Terri's naughty bits and her work of sexting MC. More than simply what we've had so far.

 

[krowdkat]

LE can verify that the cell that was assigned to Terri by the Bat-phone Three was used to send sextys and naughty bit pics. What I need from LE is proof that it was Terri holding the phone to send those texts, and not someone else. What I know is that recently it was stated that the sextys happened usually late at night. Prove to me that someone else staying in the home didn't pick up that phone and use it to sexty MC. Prove that somehow it isn't all an ugly set up to make Terri look worse so that she'll look like the perp.

As a matter of fact, I believe the only information regarding the sextys that we have in the public domain are tied to MC's cell phone, and this information was released by Kaine Horman and/or his attorney. I'd love to know why MC took this information to Kaine if he was sexting the guy's wife. Suddenly he wants to help the poor guy out???

I need proof it was Terri's naughty bits and her work of sexting MC. More than simply what we've had so far.

So you think it could have been a set up by Dede or the other friend who purchased bat phones for TH that sent sextys? Interesting.

 

[debs]

All's I know is that two people associated, even tangentially, with Kaine Horman appear to have gotten very close very quickly to Terri Horman (MC and the gal from Intel). A third person, who is described as a close friend of Terri Horman's, is described by Kaine Horman as someone he didn't know well, maybe saw a couple times a year. I know that statement has been used to point out that Terri and DeDe must have had a secret relationship....a whole thread about it, in fact.

S'all I'm sayin

 

[krowdkat]

Debs, your comments did give me a thought that never occured to me. If the sexting occured from one of the bat phones, wouldn't LE then know at least one of the bat phone numbers to collect electronic info from. I always assumed the sexting took place from TH's known cell number. Very interesting.

 

[Aedrys]

I need proof it was Terri sending those sexts. I have my very serious doubts.

And I bet LE has that proof. Surely they pulled phone records to see exactly where it was coming from. This is not a movie. People don't hack other people's phones and send texts and nude pictures in real life. Terri did all of that herself, and I don't need to see those nude pictures and texts to believe it.

How ironic that one end, someone could have hacked her phone, but on the other end, that receipt at FM couldn't be from anyone but Terri. There is no grand conspiracy going on here. Terri is the only one making Terri look guilty.

Honestly, it's mindsets like this that make me think Terri is guilty. People thinking it's everyone else out to get Terri makes me not even lean on the fence anymore. And it didn't and still isn't working for ICA either.

ETA: I am honestly willing to consider other scenarios, such as a lone predator. But I am NOT willing to consider that everyone just has it out for Terri. That does NOT make her innocent in my mind.

 

[debs]

And I bet LE has that proof. Surely they pulled phone records to see exactly where it was coming from. This is not a movie. People don't hack other people's phones and send texts and nude pictures in real life. Terri did all of that herself, and I don't need to see those nude pictures and texts to believe it.

How ironic that one end, someone could have hacked her phone, but on the other end, that receipt at FM couldn't be from anyone but Terri. There is no grand conspiracy going on here. Terri is the only one making Terri look guilty.

Honestly, it's mindsets like this that make me think Terri is guilty. People thinking it's everyone else out to get Terri makes me not even lean on the fence anymore. And it didn't and still isn't working for ICA either.

ETA: I am honestly willing to consider other scenarios, such as a lone predator. But I am NOT willing to consider that everyone just has it out for Terri. That does NOT make her innocent in my mind.

Who said "hack"? I just said prove to me it was Terri sending them. If she set her phone down at any time during the day or night, prove to me someone else didn't pick it up to send the pics.

The worst case scenario is Terri sent them herself; but this is not evidence Terri did anything to Kyron; this is evidence that Terri "ugly coped" after her husband took off with her baby and slapped her with an RO and divorce papers.

But like I said, I have serious doubts.