What Shirt Was JB Wearing When She Was Killed?

[JMO8778]

I agree with you, since I made that post several months ago, I have changed my mind. I believe that she was AWAKE when the Rams arrived home from the party, just as Burke orginally said, before changing his story for some reason (his parents persistance, perhaps?) I totally agree with your WHOLE scenario.

I think she was not only awake then,but awake the whole time,(inc. the trip home),and that they ALL went into the Stine's house,and stayed awhile.(and perhaps Patsy had another drink or two there as well??)Thus the real reason they didn't stop by to deliver the last gift..it was just too late.I think this also accounts for JB eating the pineapple so late...they got back late.
As far as the apparent lack of luggage...I think Patsy had done all the packing..at least most of it.Perhaps they were thinking of fleeing *that night,so the luggage went 'missing',with who knows where it ended up..maybe the Stine's came to help w that one.Maybe the cord and tape were in there,too.(actually,I'm not so sure there was ever any cord or tape left over,seeing as the tape was used,and the wrist cords seemed to be an afterthought,applied after rigor had already set in).The fact the Stine's weren't called the next morning IMO means they already knew something.

 

[Ames]

I think she was not only awake then,but awake the whole time,(inc. the trip home),and that they ALL went into the Stine's house,and stayed awhile.thus the real reason they didn't stop by to deliver the last gift..it was just too late.I think this also accounts for JB eating the pineapple so late...they got back late.
As far as the apparent lack of luggage...I think Patsy had done all the packing..at least most of it.Perhaps they were thinking off fleeing *that night,so the luggage went 'missing',with who knows where it ended up..maybe the Stine's came to help w that one.Maybe the cord and tape were in there,too.(actually,I'm not so sure there was ever any cord or tape left over,seeing as the tape was used,and the wrist cords seemed to be an afterthought,applied after rigor had already set in).The fact the Stine's weren't called the next morning IMO means they knew something.

I agree with you. All of those houses that they delivered gifts to, were not far from the Ramsey home. JB wouldn't have had time to fall asleep. IMO. I have always thought it was weird that the Stines were not called. Goodness knows, they called everybody else they knew.

 

[JMO8778]

I agree with you. All of those houses that they delivered gifts to, were not far from the Ramsey home. JB wouldn't have had time to fall asleep. IMO. I have always thought it was weird that the Stines were not called. Goodness knows, they called everybody else they knew.

I wonder if Patsy had another drink or two while they were there.if so, then combined w what she'd already had at the White's,it wouldn't have helped her state of mind any at all.

 

[Ames]

I wonder if Patsy had another drink or two while they were there.if so, then combined w what she'd already had at the White's,it wouldn't have helped her state of mind any at all.

Probably, it's possible. Do we know when they left the White's party? Not when THEY say they left, but when the other guests said that the Ramseys left?

 

[Ames]

I remember in one of John's interviews, he couldn't remember if JB was asleep in the car when they were out delivering gifts or not. I will look for that portion of his interview tomorrow. It's too late for all that digging right now. I thought that it was weird that he couldn't remember if she got out or not at one of the houses...to help deliver the gifts. He said that she may have went inside for the delivery of the gift...or she may have not, because she was sleeping in the car. I can't remember which house he was referring to, though. I will look it up. I thought it was odd that he couldn't remember that, tough. I mean...it was ONLY the last night that he saw her alive...and he couldn't remember if she helped deliver the gifts to their friends or not...or if she was sleeping in the backseat of the car. GOOD GRIEF!

 

[JMO8778]

Probably, it's possible. Do we know when they left the White's party? Not when THEY say they left, but when the other guests said that the Ramseys left?

I don't know other than I recall that the White's had stated they left earlier than the R's had stated they did in their interview.So seems the R's were trying to stretch that time out a bit by saying they left at a later time.So maybe they spent that extra time at the Stine's.They were their good friends,and so probably would have wanted to see them more on Christmas other than just dropping off a gift.

 

[Ames]

I don't know other than I recall that the White's had stated they left earlier than the R's had stated they did in their interview.So seems the R's were trying to stretch that time out a bit by saying they left at a later time.So maybe they spent that extra time at the Stine's.They were their good friends,and so probably would have wanted to see them more on Christmas other than just dropping off a gift.

That's what I thought...that they left earlier than they had said that they did.

 

[DeeDee249]

I know we've all discussed the red turtleneck and there is some confusion with the red JUMPSUIT that JBR wore in what turned out to be her final public performance with Amerikids at a local Mall. PR mentions this red jumpsuit when questioned about two red items in the crime photos. One, as we know, was her red turtleneck, seen balled up in a sink. The other was this red jumpsuit, which PR said JBR had worn in her Mall performance and had gotten stained. PR mentions seeing it in the laundry room (the UPSTAIRS laundry, just outside JBR's room and making a mental note to wash it when they got back from their trip. I had never seen a photo of it, but came across this one- I hope the link works: http://www.perfectpeople.net/photo-picture-image/140935/jonbenet-ramsey.htm

Just tried it- it works, but you have to scroll down to see the photo. This is the red jumpsuit PR is talking about.

 

[Ames]

I know we've all discussed the red turtleneck and there is some confusion with the red JUMPSUIT that JBR wore in what turned out to be her final public performance with Amerikids at a local Mall. PR mentions this red jumpsuit when questioned about two red items in the crime photos. One, as we know, was her red turtleneck, seen balled up in a sink. The other was this red jumpsuit, which PR said JBR had worn in her Mall performance and had gotten stained. PR mentions seeing it in the laundry room (the UPSTAIRS laundry, just outside JBR's room and making a mental note to wash it when they got back from their trip. I had never seen a photo of it, but came across this one- I hope the link works: http://www.perfectpeople.net/photo-picture-image/140935/jonbenet-ramsey.htm

Just tried it- it works, but you have to scroll down to see the photo. This is the red jumpsuit PR is talking about.

Thanks for posting that link DeeDee, I had never seen that photo before. (She looks so much like my 7 year old daughter in that picture, it's just plain eerie.) You should really make a thread devoted to this link, because I am almost 100 percent sure, that nobody else has ever seen this photo of her or of that red jumpsuit, either. Great detective work!!!

 

[DeeDee249]

Will do, Ames- both here and at FFJ. Yes, I've seen your beautiful daughter's photos when you sent them to me last year. She looks amazingly like JBR, especially in that photo.

 

[Ames]

Will do, Ames- both here and at FFJ. Yes, I've seen your beautiful daughter's photos when you sent them to me last year. She looks amazingly like JBR, especially in that photo.

I am sure that it will be greatly appreciated both here and over at FFJ! :clap: (Standing ovation) Thanks again for sharing the link!!

 

[JMO8778]

indeed,thx so much Deedee!!!
Is it indeed odd she would say she'd stopped to wash a stain out of it,seeing as it was red and was surely a holiday outfit,and the Christmas was over,as far as that night goes(?) seems she was trying to either account for something being on the outfit,or for herself being in that area.we know BR's knife was in the cabinet there,though.

 

[Ames]

indeed,thx so much Deedee!!!
Is it indeed odd she would say she'd stopped to wash a stain out of it,seeing as it was red and was surely a holiday outfit,and the Christmas was over,as far as that night goes(?) seems she was trying to either account for something being on the outfit,or for herself being in that area.we know BR's knife was in the cabinet there,though.

I thought that was weird too. I couldn't imagine that she would have been wearing it anywhere else, since it was red and Christmasy. And she would have been outgrown it by the next year. She may have just been trying to account for any time that went by, before discovering JB missing. RiverRat and I have discussed this before...she NEVER once mentioned that she was heading downstairs to make coffee when she found the RN, in any of her formal interviews. But, she says it on CNN, in an interview with them. I just believe that she had some time that she had to account for. IMO..she never went to bed that night, so she didn't have to get redressed, or put on her makeup...because it was there from the previous night. But, she says that she woke up, skipped a shower, for whatever reason...stopped and inspected the stain on the jumpsuit, guess she thought that little elves could have come in the middle of the night (with the intruder?) and washed out the stain...and then went and did her hair, makeup and put on her clothes. Not necessarily in that order...I can't remember if she inspected the stain, before putting on her clothes and makeup or not. Regardless...she was trying to account for some elapsed time...IMO

 

[JMO8778]

in DOI she says she did her makeup,got dressed etc...then went down the stairs.No mention of anything else,just that a few mins. later she was at the stairs,and found the note.(btw that was one darn long shower JR would've taken,if it had happened the way she said it did!) I don't believe that JR would have let her stay asleep when he'd gotten up either,that is just cutting it way to close timewise,knowing she had to get ready and get the kids out the door,too.

 

[Ames]

in DOI she says she did her makeup,got dressed etc...then went down the stairs.No mention of anything else,just that a few mins. later she was at the stairs,and found the note.(btw that was one darn long shower JR would've taken,if it had happened the way she said it did!) I don't believe that JR would have let her stay asleep when he'd gotten up either,that is just cutting it way to close timewise,knowing she had to get ready and get the kids out the door,too.

Yep, I have thought that too...about that mighty long shower that John took. It's not like he had to shave his legs, or wash his long flowing hair!

 

[JMO8778]

Yep, I have thought that too...about that mighty long shower that John took. It's not like he had to shave his legs, or wash his long flowing hair!

ROFL! well,ya never know...

 

[DeeDee249]

PR has changed her story so many times as far as her movements that morning. Obviously, she wouldn't have stopped in the laundry area to look at the red jumpsuit lying on the ironing board AFTER she found the note. So we can assume she was just padding the story when asked about the morning by LE. It is suspicious to me that, with everything she had to do the previous night and that morning to get ready for the trip, the last thing she'd do is hand-wash JBR's turtleneck. Yet it was in the sink, and she has said JBR didn't wear it Christmas day. At least not to the White's. ST corroborates this, as he has seen the photos from the White's and JBR is wearing the white Gap shirt.
SO- either JBR wore it earlier Christmas Day BEFORE dressing for the White's and got it dirty (and PR put it in the sink to soak) and in this case it doesn't play a part in the crime. OR she wore it after getting home from the White's and there was something on that shirt PR needed to wash out - in this case it DOES have a part in the crime.

 

[Ames]

ROFL! well,ya never know...

True, true. Maybe nobody really ever KNEW John at all. LOL

 

[Ames]

PR has changed her story so many times as far as her movements that morning. Obviously, she wouldn't have stopped in the laundry area to look at the red jumpsuit lying on the ironing board AFTER she found the note. So we can assume she was just padding the story when asked about the morning by LE. It is suspicious to me that, with everything she had to do the previous night and that morning to get ready for the trip, the last thing she'd do is hand-wash JBR's turtleneck. Yet it was in the sink, and she has said JBR didn't wear it Christmas day. At least not to the White's. ST corroborates this, as he has seen the photos from the White's and JBR is wearing the white Gap shirt.
SO- either JBR wore it earlier Christmas Day BEFORE dressing for the White's and got it dirty (and PR put it in the sink to soak) and in this case it doesn't play a part in the crime. OR she wore it after getting home from the White's and there was something on that shirt PR needed to wash out - in this case it DOES have a part in the crime.

It was balled up on JB's bathroom counter. And I...along with ST...believe that JB wore it to bed that night, and wet the bed along with the shirt. That is when and why it was removed, and placed on the bathroom counter....balled up. I believe that is when the accident happened...when Patsy tried to angrily yank that wet turtleneck off of JB. She lost her balance and fell.

 

[JMO8778]

True, true. Maybe nobody really ever KNEW John at all. LOL

I suspect he cornrows his hair and wears dreadlocks when no one is watching... =:-O