What Shirt Was JB Wearing When She Was Killed?

[narlacat]

The turtleneck is not the reason that I think that Patsy lost it and killed her daughter. She wet the bed...I believe thats the reason. And I don't think that she actually used the collar to choke her to death with....I do, however, think that she grabbed it and twisted it up around her neck, leaving marks on her neck...caused by Patsy's rings...and threw her onto the tub, the toilet or the sink....causing the head injury. I think that Patsy didn't figure that the police would think that a balled up turtleneck had anything to do with it...thats why she didn't remove it....either that, or she forgot to.

Some people do, I wasnt referring to you specifically, sorry if you thought that.

I don't think they would have forgot too much, but it is dark and time is kicking along...you never know.

It looks like they forgot the torch too, if it was indeed the instrument which caused the head injury, why would they leave it on the kitchen bench in plain view?

 

[Solace]

Some people do, I wasnt referring to you specifically, sorry if you thought that.

I don't think they would have forgot too much, but it is dark and time is kicking along...you never know.

It looks like they forgot the torch too, if it was indeed the instrument which caused the head injury, why would they leave it on the kitchen bench in plain view?

This case is insane. As far as the torch goes, why are there no fingerprints oon the batteries. It is clean.

I think Patsy lost it in the bedroom, not in the kitchen. But why are there no fingerprints on the flashlight or torch as you say?

 

[narlacat]

This case is insane. As far as the torch goes, why are there no fingerprints oon the batteries. It is clean.

I think Patsy lost it in the bedroom, not in the kitchen. But why are there no fingerprints on the flashlight or torch as you say?

Well, because it was wiped down, but why leave it in plain view like that?

I really don't know where it all started but expect it probably did start upstairs...so if that torch was upstairs, they did distance it by bringing it downstairs to wipe it down..

Whoops, I am an Aussie and we don't call them flashlights but I normally do on here but...forgot!

 

[Nuisanceposter]

If they forgot about the torch/flashlight, and I think they did, then I think they also forgot about the pineapple on the table...until it came back to bite them in the butt. I certainly don't believe an intruder left that light anymore than I believe an intruder fed JonBenet pineapple and then waited 1-2 hours to kill her.

 

[Solace]

Well, because it was wiped down, but why leave it in plain view like that? I know, but I am beginning to think it was done intentionally to throw the police off.

I really don't know where it all started but expect it probably did start upstairs...so if that torch was upstairs, they did distance it by bringing it downstairs to wipe it down..

Whoops, I am an Aussie and we don't call them flashlights but I normally do on here but...forgot!

I love that you call them torches. I am going to call them that from now on.

 

[Ames]

<snipped>

Summarising, JonBenet was left wearing urine-soaked underwear and longjohns, despite the crime-scene being staged and JonBenet being redressed, her urine-soaked clothing was ignored, and we know that her killer(s) were aware of this due to the staging undertaken outside the wine-cellar door! Also JonBenet's feces soiled jeans/pants were left in plain view upon the bathroom floor.


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IMO....in their HASTE...they either didn't notice that she had on urine-soaked underwear and long johns, or they didn't have the time to redress her YET again.

 

[Ames]

This case is insane. As far as the torch goes, why are there no fingerprints oon the batteries. It is clean.

I think Patsy lost it in the bedroom, not in the kitchen. But why are there no fingerprints on the flashlight or torch as you say?

This is what I think....One of the neighbors saw someone in the Ramsey's household, with a flashlight walking around the night that JB was murdered. I believe that it was John or Patsy, doing this, JUST IN CASE a neighbor were to see (which they did...so their plan worked). This is the reason that I believe that the flashlight was left out and wiped down....they wanted everyone to think that the "intruder" was the one walking around with the flashlight...and that HE is the one that wiped it down. I do not think that it was used as a weapon. I believe that it was left out on purpose, and wiped down on purpose. IMO

 

[Ames]

Some people do, I wasnt referring to you specifically, sorry if you thought that.

I don't think they would have forgot too much, but it is dark and time is kicking along...you never know.

It looks like they forgot the torch too, if it was indeed the instrument which caused the head injury, why would they leave it on the kitchen bench in plain view?

I explained this to another poster in my post above this one.

 

[Solace]

This is what I think....One of the neighbors saw someone in the Ramsey's household, with a flashlight walking around the night that JB was murdered. I believe that it was John or Patsy, doing this, JUST IN CASE a neighbor were to see (which they did...so their plan worked). This is the reason that I believe that the flashlight was left out and wiped down....they wanted everyone to think that the "intruder" was the one walking around with the flashlight...and that HE is the one that wiped it down. I do not think that it was used as a weapon. I believe that it was left out on purpose, and wiped down on purpose. IMO

I agree with you AMES. Can you imagine how insane they were that night.

 

[UKGuy]

IMO....in their HASTE...they either didn't notice that she had on urine-soaked underwear and long johns, or they didn't have the time to redress her YET again.

Ames,

Not much point in doing any staging if you do not mask, hide or remove the initial cause lying behind JonBenet's death!


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[Solace]

Ames,

Not much point in doing any staging if you do not mask, hide or remove the initial cause lying behind JonBenet's death!


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If that was the initial cause; Ames, I know you posted somewhere about jeans being found in the bedroom or the bathroom (there was a crime scene photo where Haney (I Believe( asked Patsy about their being soiled). Was there underwear in those jeans?

 

[Veronica10]

IMO....in their HASTE...they either didn't notice that she had on urine-soaked underwear and long johns, or they didn't have the time to redress her YET again.

Remember, the staging was taking place in a dark basement (maybe the flashlight was used to assist). They certainly didn't turn any lights on down there (neighbors would have seen). So the fact that JB had urine on her longjohns is absolutely no surprise. Can you imagine the sheer panic of the stager? It is completely believable to me that the stager didn't notice a post-mortem release of urine.

 

[Solace]

Remember, the staging was taking place in a dark basement (maybe the flashlight was used to assist). They certainly didn't turn any lights on down there (neighbors would have seen). So the fact that JB had urine on her longjohns is absolutely no surprise. Can you imagine the sheer panic of the stager? It is completely believable to me that the stager didn't notice a post-mortem release of urine.

I agree Veronica.

 

[UKGuy]

If that was the initial cause; Ames, I know you posted somewhere about jeans being found in the bedroom or the bathroom (there was a crime scene photo where Haney (I Believe( asked Patsy about their being soiled). Was there underwear in those jeans?

Solace,

It was the bathroom, and from memory, there was no mention of underwear, the subject under discussion were her soiled pants/jeans.

This has spawned the Missing Underwear question?


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[Solace]

Solace,

It was the bathroom, and from memory, there was no mention of underwear, the subject under discussion were her soiled pants/jeans.

This has spawned the Missing Underwear question?


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I think you are right UK. But I would like to be certain. Because it could change things if there were underwear in the jeans. And how is it that the jeans get soiled if she is wearing underwear - not to be too graphic here - but it seems they were soiled enough to show up in a picture and if she were wearing underwear. I don't know.

 

[UKGuy]

I think you are right UK. But I would like to be certain. Because it could change things if there were underwear in the jeans. And how is it that the jeans get soiled if she is wearing underwear - not to be too graphic here - but it seems they were soiled enough to show up in a picture and if she were wearing underwear. I don't know.

Solace,

If it were a fact that JonBenet was wearing underwear then this would have been itemized somewhere.

I have speculated that on Xmas day JonBenet may not have been wearing any underwear at all, which then suggests she was not wearing any the previous night?

And I forget the dates now, but I think Patsy stated that JonBenet shared a bed with Burke?

So if my memory is correct, Burke and JonBenet share a bed, JonBenet declines to wear underwear, then she has a toileting issue, what does that sound like?


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[UKGuy]

Remember, the staging was taking place in a dark basement (maybe the flashlight was used to assist). They certainly didn't turn any lights on down there (neighbors would have seen). So the fact that JB had urine on her longjohns is absolutely no surprise. Can you imagine the sheer panic of the stager? It is completely believable to me that the stager didn't notice a post-mortem release of urine.

Veronica10,

Not dark enough to prevent her from being sexually assaulted either digitally or with the paintbrush handle, part of which may have been left inside her?

Also if she was wiped down to remove blood or whatever, then the urine-soaked clothing would have been manifestly obvious!

JonBenet was left wearing urine-soaked clothing because these did not matter to her killer or the person who staged the wine-cellar crime scene!

What did matter was hiding the sexual assault!


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[lannie]

We all know that Patsy changed her mind about what JB was put to bed in. I think that she was wearing the red turtleneck, and the collar was used to choke her with. This is why, I believe, that her arms were up and over her head...in the position that they would be IF someone had of pulled her shirt off, from the bottom (of the shirt). Grabbing at the bottom and pulling upward....over the head...and the sleeves pull the arms upward, so that the shirt comes off. (Ever taken a shirt off a child? You grab the shirt at the bottom, pull upward...over the head...the child's arms go straight up, and then you pull the sleeves off. This is why I think that JB was found with her arms up and over her head.)[/QUOTE,,,,,,,,,,,,,Also to put a shirt on a child the first thing you ask them to do is put their arms stright up !

 

[Solace]

Veronica10,

Not dark enough to prevent her from being sexually assaulted either digitally or with the paintbrush handle, part of which may have been left inside her?

Also if she was wiped down to remove blood or whatever, then the urine-soaked clothing would have been manifestly obvious!

JonBenet was left wearing urine-soaked clothing because these did not matter to her killer or the person who staged the wine-cellar crime scene! I agree.

What did matter was hiding the sexual assault! ?


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UKKKKKKK, who do you think was sexually assaulting JonBenet. You must have an opinion

 

[Solace]

Solace,

If it were a fact that JonBenet was wearing underwear then this would have been itemized somewhere. I have to check the interview re same. I also asked Ames who did a post on it.

I have speculated that on Xmas day JonBenet may not have been wearing any underwear at all, which then suggests she was not wearing any the previous night? Yes, but you cannot tell whether she was or was not wearing underwear by speculating. Maybe she was not wearing it Christmas day but then at some point did put some on.

And I forget the dates now, but I think Patsy stated that JonBenet shared a bed with Burke? She said in her interviews that intermittently JonBEnet would go into Burke's room when she was afraid or if she wet her bed. She said she slept in her room that night.

So if my memory is correct, Burke and JonBenet share a bed, JonBenet declines to wear underwear, then she has a toileting issue, what does that sound like? But you are assuming they were in the same bed that night.