What's eating you alive re this case?

[kanzz]

It was not a heart. Any of the photographs of her hand will dispel that myth. It is red or pink marker, but not in the shape of a heart. Could have been drawn on her days before her murder. I do not believe it was part of the staging, but a possible artifact of previous abuse.

And people do weird stuff, so the Barbie dolls are probably due to Boulder weirdness.

It doesn't look as much like a heart in this image, but I always wondered if she didn't draw it herself. My kids did that a lot when they were little

 

[TeaTime]

Hello everyone. One thing I wanted to add, is that I think the Ramsey's defense team are the ones who told JR and PR to accuse FW. I'm sure that FW has a ton of information on the ramseys both before and after the crime. I think he knows what was going on in that family and the disturbing things Burke was doing in the months before the crime. The R's defense team knew this so they had to attack him right away to destroy him as a credible witness.

I've heard more unreasonable theories than this. Wasn't it PW who stood in a room full of Ramseys and Paughs and stated "I know what's going on here" with PR responding "how could you know what is going on here, when I am the mother and I don't know what's going on?"

Afterwards, PR would remark that she wished she had asked PW what she was talking about. But, she never did.

 

[zencompass]

What is eating me alive these days concerning this horrid murder?

The fact that people are afraid to discuss this case or that witnesses feel intimidated to come forward with information they may have because of the fear (which is real)
of being litigated for all they are worth.

How on earth can the facts in this case, which some invariably have been kept in the dark for twenty years, be brought into the light for answers under these circumstances?

In order to shine light on this case and search for the truth (which is the very least that little JonBenet deserves !) all of the documentation from the
Grand Jury needs to be unsealed. But who can make this happen or who is greatly motivated to make this happen?

I have been hoping and praying that the current lawsuit may be a catalyst to make this happen.

This is only my opinion but I know I am not alone in thinking that the evidence/testimony which the Grand Jury heard and saw should be made public.

 

[Tortoise]

It doesn't look as much like a heart in this image, but I always wondered if she didn't draw it herself. My kids did that a lot when they were little

Ok, this has been on my mind, so I did a small test today.

I'll post up the autopsy picture as it gives a better view of the whole hand.

What started me thinking was - if I was going to draw on my palm or someone else's palm, I would hold my or their palm flat. It makes for better movement of the pen, than drawing on soft fleshy skin. I've seen other people suggest it could be a smile with two downward dashes for eyes, a smiley face. So I drew a similar style smiley face on my flattened out palm. When I then held my hand loosely, almost but not quite cupped, with the fingers curled inwards like the photo, it became more heart shaped, like the photo.

I also came to the conclusion that this was probably drawn not by JonBenet but by someone else, sitting at JonBenet's left side. This is because if she were drawing it herself with her right hand, I feel the smile would be as she would be looking at and holding her own arm and hand out comfortably - more central or probably towards the side of her little finger - rather than on the side of the base of her thumb (mount of venus). It is too angled away from her own line of sight or perspective.

So, a smiley face drawn before her hand was tightened by rigor mortis, and drawn by someone else.

 

[Userid]

^Hmm, interesting -- but that leads me to my original question: why? Why draw a face/heart/whatever on her, especially after she was deceased (assuming it was drawn after death but before rigor)?

In all honesty, from the photos, it looks like an "old" drawing to me now -- like a day or two old -- but I could be wrong of course.

 

[Tortoise]

^Hmm, interesting -- but that leads me to my original question: why? Why draw a face/heart/whatever on her, especially after she was deceased (assuming it was drawn after death but before rigor)?

In all honesty, from the photos, it looks like an "old" drawing to me now -- like a day or two old -- but I could be wrong of course.

This has to be a guess, but I would say it is just an expression of love to a child.

 

[madeleine]

I just don't think there will ever be justice in this case. The guilty part won't confess. LE stopped pushing long ago. Charlie Brennan and the like did all they could to make the files public and kuddos for that. Nothing can be done. This investigation was cursed from the beginning. You can't undo the mistakes that were done cause there were too many and were done by people in KEY positions. I hate to think that we will never k ow the truth but O am being realistic. There never was an intruder. The Ramseys never looked for an intruder. They did zero to find out who did this because they knew. We all knew they knew. Sad as it is but I guess we will have to live with knowing it was one of them but not who or why this happened. Pfuah

 

[SecretaryGal]

I just don't think there will ever be justice in this case. The guilty part won't confess. LE stopped pushing long ago. Charlie Brennan and the like did all they could to make the files public and kuddos for that. Nothing can be done. This investigation was cursed from the beginning. You can't undo the mistakes that were done cause there were too many and were done by people in KEY positions. I hate to think that we will never k ow the truth but O am being realistic. There never was an intruder. The Ramseys never looked for an intruder. They did zero to find out who did this because they knew. We all knew they knew. Sad as it is but I guess we will have to live with knowing it was one of them but not who or why this happened. Pfuah

Madeline, I echo your sentiments here. I just recently returned from vacation, where I was finally able to read James Kolar and Steve Thomas books. I am angered and saddened by what I read and what the (serious) investigators had to deal with on this case. Shame on Boulder District Attorneys Hunter and Mary Lacy and all their cohorts who made a mockery of this case. They all make me sick. Politics and Money over Ethics, Truth and Justice. ::sigh:: some things will never change....

 

[BOESP]

Check out bumped post #583 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...estions-for-SuperDave&p=12923107#post12923107

It answers a lot of questions about the red heart drawn in JonBenet's palm.

 

[Afterimage]

Madeline, I echo your sentiments here. I just recently returned from vacation, where I was finally able to read James Kolar and Steve Thomas books. I am angered and saddened by what I read and what the (serious) investigators had to deal with on this case. Shame on Boulder District Attorneys Hunter and Mary Lacy and all their cohorts who made a mockery of this case. They all make me sick. Politics and Money over Ethics, Truth and Justice. ::sigh:: some things will never change....

For sure! I don't see how all those involved can live with themselves. You'd think it would bother them every day knowing that they perpetuated a serious lie. They must not have a conscience.

But I guess you could look at it like this...

1. B was actually the cause of JB death. Since he was under 10 years old he could not be charged with a crime.
2. The parents were to be indicted with allowing the crime to happen and with covering up the crime. However...see number 1...there was no crime.

 

[TeaTime]

For sure! I don't see how all those involved can live with themselves. You'd think it would bother them every day knowing that they perpetuated a serious lie. They must not have a conscience.

But I guess you could look at it like this...

1. B was actually the cause of JB death. Since he was under 10 years old he could not be charged with a crime.
2. The parents were to be indicted with allowing the crime to happen and with covering up the crime. However...see number 1...there was no crime.

A crime was committed, it is just that the 'infant' can not be prosecuted for it because we, as a society, deem that they are not mentally capable of understanding their actions.

 

[icedtea4me]

Ok, this has been on my mind, so I did a small test today.

I'll post up the autopsy picture as it gives a better view of the whole hand.

What started me thinking was - if I was going to draw on my palm or someone else's palm, I would hold my or their palm flat. It makes for better movement of the pen, than drawing on soft fleshy skin. I've seen other people suggest it could be a smile with two downward dashes for eyes, a smiley face. So I drew a similar style smiley face on my flattened out palm. When I then held my hand loosely, almost but not quite cupped, with the fingers curled inwards like the photo, it became more heart shaped, like the photo.

I also came to the conclusion that this was probably drawn not by JonBenet but by someone else, sitting at JonBenet's left side. This is because if she were drawing it herself with her right hand, I feel the smile would be as she would be looking at and holding her own arm and hand out comfortably - more central or probably towards the side of her little finger - rather than on the side of the base of her thumb (mount of venus). It is too angled away from her own line of sight or perspective.

So, a smiley face drawn before her hand was tightened by rigor mortis, and drawn by someone else.

The drawing reminds me of a smiley face, too.

http://images.clipartpanda.com/smiley-face-clip-art-niXoRMbiB.png

 

[Tortoise]

Ok, time for the next puzzle.

What was the reason JonBenet was left with her arms raised above her head? Her hands could have been bound in front of her or behind her. Did it fulfill someone's idea of a posed torture scene?

 

[BBB167893]

Ok, time for the next puzzle.

What was the reason JonBenet was left with her arms raised above her head? Her hands could have been bound in front of her or behind her. Did it fulfill someone's idea of a posed torture scene?

That was probably the easiest way the person who tied the "bindings" on could do it.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Her hands weren't over her head. I think Pasty placed her hands over her chest in prayer and the bindings held them there. Someone had her wrapped like a "papoose" as John Ramsey said when her found her. That is something a mother would do.

 

[kanzz]

Her hands weren't over her head. I think Pasty placed her hands over her chest in prayer and the bindings held them there. Someone had her wrapped like a "papoose" as John Ramsey said when her found her. That is something a mother would do.

Well, what JR said and what was real were often two different things. Here is a photo of an evidence photo from right after she was taken upstairs by JB and then placed near the Christmas tree - when she was in rigor:

 

[Tortoise]

That was probably the easiest way the person who tied the "bindings" on could do it.

Possibly.

I'm excited to announce that I've just carried out an experiment that I think proves beyond reasonable doubt that JonBenet's arms were down by her sides when she was strangled. I'll post up details later, just need to try to gather some pictures first.

So I believe her arms were moved to be tied over her head afterwards. I can't find a logical explanation for why it's easier to take arms that are lying by her sides up over her head to bind at the wrists, than it is to just draw them together and bind them behind her back.

My thinking is it was to simulate a torture involving hanging her by her arms. If so, and if this was a staging, I wonder if the stager had an idea in mind as to where this would have happened.

 

[BBB167893]

Possibly.

I'm excited to announce that I've just carried out an experiment that I think proves beyond reasonable doubt that JonBenet's arms were down by her sides when she was strangled. I'll post up details later, just need to try to gather some pictures first.

So I believe her arms were moved to be tied over her head afterwards. I can't find a logical explanation for why it's easier to take arms that are lying by her sides up over her head to bind at the wrists, than it is to just draw them together and bind them behind her back.

My thinking is it was to simulate a torture involving hanging her by her arms. If so, and if this was a staging, I wonder if the stager had an idea in mind as to where this would have happened.

We're counting on you, Tortoise.

 

[Tortoise]

We're counting on you, Tortoise.

Hey I realise I should probably just say, seeing as I posted the spoiler in this thread, (for anyone prepared to put their DI notions to one side and follow the evidence), that I posted my results in a different thread here http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...t-colored-abrasion%94&p=12930121#post12930121

 

[Tortoise]

Anyone know the source of this information in the Bonita Papers?

Patsy was attending to the necessary details of her daughter's funeral. Patsy had chosen a white, sleeveless ballerina dress with sequins, but consulted with John before making her final decision. "Are there any bruises on JonBenet's arms," she asked John. John assured her there were not, but Patsy asked him again, "Are you sure?" John replied, "JonBenet’s arms were not bruised.''

http://www.acandyrose.com/1999-BonitaPapers.htm

It's curious because John would not have seen JonBenet's arms when he discovered her.