Where Do You Think Teresa Halbach was Killed?

[Karinna]

FWIW, i definitely don't think TH was murdered on the Avery property and that her body was burned there. I am still wondering about all the bone fragment evidence too. It doesn't make sense IMO.
Here's an interesting read on just that subject.
(Quote)
Since the scene wasn’t documented, there is no proof that any bones were ever on the Avery property. As well, the Manitowoc County coroner was forbidden from entering the scene and none of the forensic experts were summoned until after the bones had been removed. We are to simply accept the word of the state witnesses who claimed to see the bones.
And:
The DNA evidence described above is not conclusive. How is it even possible for tissue to survive a fire that disintegrated 60% of the bone mass? The teeth which are commonly used to identify a body because they outlast bone didn’t even survive the fire. Something’s wrong and it becomes difficult to accept this evidence as presented.
https://stopwrongfulconvictions.wor...e-bone-evidence-teresa-halbach-investigation/

 

[dexter75]

Treading lightly here....but beside those already mentioned, who are you prime suspects if SA isn't responsible for TH's death?

My Short list:

1. A guy affiliated with a quarry
2. A guy arrested in AZ
3. A minister...yes a minister
4. A guy who is associated with a street near Sonoran Ct.
5. A guy who didn't like GZ and lives on 147
6. Another Avery family member, younger than SA but within the immediate family
7. A older Dassey family member

Hi BCA😉
I hope you are enjoying your summer!

Thanks for this post! Your response ( a great one, IMO ) has me picking my brain now🤔

I'll report back later😊

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Hi BCA
I hope you are enjoying your summer!

Thanks for this post! Your response ( a great one, IMO ) has me picking my brain now樂

I'll report back later

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

LOVE IT DEXTER...LOL

We are having a great summer! Can I do a restart~~it has gone by too fast. Just wanted to add (I know I'm not in the cell phone thread) that when it is overcast or a lot of tree cover my cell phone and internet service is horrible. Missy would probably remember but was it overcast the day TH went missing?

 

[missy1974]

LOVE IT DEXTER...LOL

We are having a great summer! Can I do a restart~~it has gone by too fast. Just wanted to add (I know I'm not in the cell phone thread) that when it is overcast or a lot of tree cover my cell phone and internet service is horrible. Missy would probably remember but was it overcast the day TH went missing?

I think it was BCA.

This is the weather for Manitowoc, but it could have been different at the Salvage Yard. I do remember reading somewhere along the way that it had at least rained a little bit there. I remember it coming up in discussions about the fire. Hope that helps!

I do understand what you are saying about the cell coverage, and the same thing happens to us when we go camping and out of town. We can literally be on one side of the trailer and won't get service.... walk 5 feet and get great service LOL I read your post earlier but was at the market and couldn't answer.... but it got me thinking.... I am thinking more and more that when that one call went to CFNA, it was for exactly that reason, she was in a "no coverage zone". Now... how close is the tower to the salvage yard? I don't recall reading anything about anyone (including LE) having an issue with cell phone coverage. Was she driving back towards home and someone just happened to call and it didn't go through?

I sure hope we get something in Zellners brief about the phone LOL
https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMTW/2005/10/31/WeeklyHistory.html

 

[Wendy101]

humm.. good question.. where did she die.. I am still wondering if she is alive and well somewhere in another country.. sorry I do not believe in the "bone" evidence... in fact, I don't believe anything about this case.

 

[dexter75]

I think it was BCA.

This is the weather for Manitowoc, but it could have been different at the Salvage Yard. I do remember reading somewhere along the way that it had at least rained a little bit there. I remember it coming up in discussions about the fire. Hope that helps!

I do understand what you are saying about the cell coverage, and the same thing happens to us when we go camping and out of town. We can literally be on one side of the trailer and won't get service.... walk 5 feet and get great service LOL I read your post earlier but was at the market and couldn't answer.... but it got me thinking.... I am thinking more and more that when that one call went to CFNA, it was for exactly that reason, she was in a "no coverage zone". Now... how close is the tower to the salvage yard? I don't recall reading anything about anyone (including LE) having an issue with cell phone coverage. Was she driving back towards home and someone just happened to call and it didn't go through?

I sure hope we get something in Zellners brief about the phone LOL
https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMTW/2005/10/31/WeeklyHistory.html

Hi guys!!:dance:

This just happened to me while visiting Kalahari this weekend. ( Sandusky OH ) Talking to hubby to say goodnight, I kept cutting out. My gf says " go over to THAT part of the room " literally a few feet away. No window, nothing blocking anything.
Cell phones/service can be weird.

YES!
Lets rewind summer:woot:

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I think it was BCA.

This is the weather for Manitowoc, but it could have been different at the Salvage Yard. I do remember reading somewhere along the way that it had at least rained a little bit there. I remember it coming up in discussions about the fire. Hope that helps!

I do understand what you are saying about the cell coverage, and the same thing happens to us when we go camping and out of town. We can literally be on one side of the trailer and won't get service.... walk 5 feet and get great service LOL I read your post earlier but was at the market and couldn't answer.... but it got me thinking.... I am thinking more and more that when that one call went to CFNA, it was for exactly that reason, she was in a "no coverage zone". Now... how close is the tower to the salvage yard? I don't recall reading anything about anyone (including LE) having an issue with cell phone coverage. Was she driving back towards home and someone just happened to call and it didn't go through?

I sure hope we get something in Zellners brief about the phone LOL
https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KMTW/2005/10/31/WeeklyHistory.html

I'm with you Missy~~I think the CFNA was because she didn't have coverage. Yes, waiting with baited breath for that cell phone data. Hopefully~~if hubby drives back I can use the open signal app again..

 

[dexter75]

Hello everyone =)
Typing left handed with no thumb so please, hang in there:blushing: ( It's a long & bumpy road with me anyway, I admit it and I'm good with it )

Question for whoever might know:
R. Hillegas pictures with scratches on hands...are the scratches legit? Any photos out there with said scratches/marks that have been confirmed true/real?
TIA

Thinking back to when Hoosen asked WHO I thought killed Teresa. Sometimes I find myself thinking " perhaps her death was accidental & she wasn't murdered. " Then... I go back. I can not get past that image of R.Hillegas with SCRATCHES on his left hand. They're visible in many photos. On the right hand..there is also a mark on his pinky. Also..there has been much speculation you can see marks/scratches on his jawline up to his forehead in the documentary. ( just started watching it..again )

Hillegas deleted VM's after he & brother GUESSED the password, which is considered breaking the law. Hillegas LIED about his relationship with TH initially, he had NO alibi and admits LEO's didn't care to verify it OR his whereabouts when Teresa went missing. All I think about when I think of the HOW or WHO is Hillegas STRANGLED her. This just seems to fit, IMO.
A jealous ex calling, repeatedly. ( unhappy with her living arrangements )
He KNOWS she is at Avery's and when she will be leaving. Perhaps things got out of hand, he only meant to talk.
He strangles TH, the scratches are obviously from her trying to fight for her life =( Leaving Hillegas's DNA. Getting rid of this is a must, he HAS to burn her body. (Why else would a killer burn a body anyway? Down to bits of bones? )

*** I often wonder if somewhere in this timeframe, after RH strangled her, did he confide in someone? Roommate? Holy Pam? She had connections. Did he call it in and happen to get Lenk or Colborn? who then could not believe their LUCK & it was on from there? M. Halbach? ***

Speaking of bones...
Scattering the bones makes absolutely NO sense. AVERY scatter bones about on HIS property?!:facepalm: WHOEVER killed TH wanted those bones found and wanted them found on AVERY'S property. I also believe RH didn't pull off getting away with this alone.
When I watched MAM a second time I noticed certain " looks " expressions on the faces of certain family members when RH was on the stand. Going to pay extra special attention this time around.

If RH is innocent..Not sure what to say to that. If a proper investigation were conducted with protocol followed to the letter..there wouldn't be suspicious minds jumping through computer moniters! JMO

 

[missy1974]

Hi Ms. 4-fingered dexter You did good! Hope you are feeling better soon :hug:

The pictures of RH's hands are on here somewhere, I can't even guess which thread You can google it though and look at the images. Here is my opinion.... I'm not sure if they are scratches or not, they could be dirt, I'm just not sure.

I go back and forth in my mind with who I think could have done it, if not SA or someone close to him. RH is still on my list. KZ implies that RH may have accessed her VM and deleted some before the 2nd of November. Mike said outright that he did access her VM on the 3rd when they realized she was missing, he said he was able to figure out her password because it was the same as the one she used for her website and he helped her with that, so it was fairly easy. I can't help but think if it was easy for Mike to figure out, it may have been easy for an ex-bf too. We are stupid when we are young.... we share passwords, PINS, personal things with friends/boyfriends. RH didn't lie to LE about his relationship with TH... he omitted the truth When they found out the truth, I can't believe they didn't even ask him where he was on the 31st or that week. It's not like they dated for a few months and decided to be friends... they were in a relationship for 5 years, IMO there is a big difference.

And yep, the bones.... they just don't make sense. It's like someone said, oh here is a good spot (maybe the quarry first?)... then went dang... maybe not, I better move them (moving them to behind the Janda house?).... then went grrrrrr that doesn't implicate SA conclusively, so moved them again (to the fire pit), but left some behind in the barrel). The only other thing that makes sense to me is that LE used the barrel (you know when the barrel's were going back and forth) to move the bones from the quarry to his firepit and left the pelvic bone behind and left some behind in the barrel too. The one thing that sticks out to me about the bones.... On November 8th, Dr. Bennet, a retired anthropologist, was taken an ilium bone, he identified it as a human female ilium bone. The ilium bone was found in the quarry though, so something is just wrong with it all. I can't find an explanation for that. It was part of the criminal complaint. I have looked before and I'm unable to find anything in the transcripts or in other reports that verify that the bones in the firepit included an ilium bone.

The bone fragments located were transported by Dorinda Freymiller, a special agent with
the Division of Criminal Investigations, to Ken Bennett, a retired forensic anthropologist,
who identified the bones as being human in nature. Bennett also determined that based
on the characteristics of the ilium bone, the bones are from an adult human female.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Criminal-Complaint.pdf

 

[Limaes]

I think she was asphyxiated in SA's trailer. It is a bloodless crime, however from following other cases and hearing experts opinions, it is not as quick and easy as it appears to be on fictional crime tv shows.

She may have been unconscious when they carried her to the garage and one of them noticed she was still breathing so he (SA) executed her on the garage floor and then wrapped and stored her in the RAV 4 while they (SA & BD) left the immediate vicinity of the trailer/garage to collect items for the fire that they eventually placed her in.

Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk

I am sticking with my previous comments. Imo, several attempts were made to extinguish her life inside the trailer but were not successful. I feel SA found out that actually murdering someone wasn't as easy as he thought. In the end he had no choice but to take her out to the garage and shoot her and that BD was there and withessed her demise.

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

Hi Ms. 4-fingered dexter You did good! Hope you are feeling better soon :hug:

The pictures of RH's hands are on here somewhere, I can't even guess which thread You can google it though and look at the images. Here is my opinion.... I'm not sure if they are scratches or not, they could be dirt, I'm just not sure.

I go back and forth in my mind with who I think could have done it, if not SA or someone close to him. RH is still on my list. KZ implies that RH may have accessed her VM and deleted some before the 2nd of November. Mike said outright that he did access her VM on the 3rd when they realized she was missing, he said he was able to figure out her password because it was the same as the one she used for her website and he helped her with that, so it was fairly easy. I can't help but think if it was easy for Mike to figure out, it may have been easy for an ex-bf too. We are stupid when we are young.... we share passwords, PINS, personal things with friends/boyfriends. RH didn't lie to LE about his relationship with TH... he omitted the truth When they found out the truth, I can't believe they didn't even ask him where he was on the 31st or that week. It's not like they dated for a few months and decided to be friends... they were in a relationship for 5 years, IMO there is a big difference.

And yep, the bones.... they just don't make sense. It's like someone said, oh here is a good spot (maybe the quarry first?)... then went dang... maybe not, I better move them (moving them to behind the Janda house?).... then went grrrrrr that doesn't implicate SA conclusively, so moved them again (to the fire pit), but left some behind in the barrel). The only other thing that makes sense to me is that LE used the barrel (you know when the barrel's were going back and forth) to move the bones from the quarry to his firepit and left the pelvic bone behind and left some behind in the barrel too. The one thing that sticks out to me about the bones.... On November 8th, Dr. Bennet, a retired anthropologist, was taken an ilium bone, he identified it as a human female ilium bone. The ilium bone was found in the quarry though, so something is just wrong with it all. I can't find an explanation for that. It was part of the criminal complaint. I have looked before and I'm unable to find anything in the transcripts or in other reports that verify that the bones in the firepit included an ilium bone.

The bone fragments located were transported by Dorinda Freymiller, a special agent with
the Division of Criminal Investigations, to Ken Bennett, a retired forensic anthropologist,
who identified the bones as being human in nature. Bennett also determined that based
on the characteristics of the ilium bone, the bones are from an adult human female.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Criminal-Complaint.pdf

There is just one little issue with any theory that suggests that someone planted bones in Avery's burn pit.... And when I say little, I mean a 35 Kilo issue....

Avery's dog 'Bear' was chained up 24/7 and was a very useful guard dog. It barked and it was very aggressive. It was not a very nice example of a dog, probably because it was mistreated. Bear kept investigators at bay for 2 days and would threaten anyone (or other dog,) that came near.

If someone planted the Cremains, they had to get past a very vicious dog. Not only that, but would its barking not of alerted anyone? Avery claims he saw tail lights, the story of which was inserted into his narrative very early on. If he would have said that his dog went berserk one night and his barking woke everyone up, that might have been more believable. But he didn't. His dog didn't bark at any intruders, because no intruder got near that burn pit, without alerting Bear.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

There is just one little issue with any theory that suggests that someone planted bones in Avery's burn pit.... And when I say little, I mean a 35 Kilo issue....

Avery's dog 'Bear' was chained up 24/7 and was a very useful guard dog. It barked and it was very aggressive. It was not a very nice example of a dog, probably because it was mistreated. Bear kept investigators at bay for 2 days and would threaten anyone (or other dog,) that came near.

If someone planted the Cremains, they had to get past a very vicious dog. Not only that, but would its barking not of alerted anyone? Avery claims he saw tail lights, the story of which was inserted into his narrative very early on. If he would have said that his dog went berserk one night and his barking woke everyone up, that might have been more believable. But he didn't. His dog didn't bark at any intruders, because no intruder got near that burn pit, without alerting Bear.

IMHO, I don't believe Bear was a big issue. IIRC, there were steak bones found at the camp next door. Wouldn't be too hard to throw Bear a steak (boneless, no less) and go about planting the bones. Who was home to hear Bear, SA and CA were off to Menards. ...and...If someone did hear Bear, would they have even paid attention? Who knows if Bear was the type of dog that barked at a leaf blowing. We don't know how long those bones were there. They could have been there all week without SA ever paying attention to them. After all, he wasn't looking for them.

By the way~~where did you find that Bear was a guard dog? Is that speculation on your part? Did someone in the family say he was a "guard dog". I don't recall reading that, but I could be mistaken? If I am mistaken, could you please provide a link to support that statement? I only recall LE saying the dog was protective of the burn pit. That doesn't make him a guard dog, nor does the fact that he was a big German Shepard. Some of them are way too sweet to be guard dogs.

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

'... a very useful Guard Dog...' is an apt description of what it did. There is no proof that it was purchased as a Guard Dog, but guard & bark, is what it did.

Avery tells O'Neill on either the 5th or 6th of November that his Dog barks a lot. It is a German Shepherd, chained up on a salvage yard and called Bear. Somehow, I don't think it would be running free and giving strangers Nose Nuzzles & fetching tennis balls.....

If you are going to subdue such a dog with Steak, then how far away do you have to be to throw the Steak, and, would it not be barking as you approached? So the people who conspired to frame Avery nipped to the Butchers en-route for Doggy Treats? Come on mate, it kept LE at bay for nearly two days and there was even a dog handler there. It was one bad *advertiser censored* *advertiser censored* dog!

SA & CA were not at Menards all that week, they went on just one of the days. Did the conspirators know that they would be leaving the property too?

Also, the crime happened on Monday and it was Thursday before TH was reported missing. Avery had plenty of time to carry on disposing of the body parts.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

'... a very useful Guard Dog...' is an apt description of what it did. There is no proof that it was purchased as a Guard Dog, but guard & bark, is what it did.

Avery tells O'Neill on either the 5th or 6th of November that his Dog barks a lot. It is a German Shepherd, chained up on a salvage yard and called Bear. Somehow, I don't think it would be running free and giving strangers Nose Nuzzles & fetching tennis balls.....

If you are going to subdue such a dog with Steak, then how far away do you have to be to throw the Steak, and, would it not be barking as you approached? So the people who conspired to frame Avery nipped to the Butchers en-route for Doggy Treats? Come on mate, it kept LE at bay for nearly two days and there was even a dog handler there. It was one bad *advertiser censored* *advertiser censored* dog!

SA & CA were not at Menards all that week, they went on just one of the days. Did the conspirators know that they would be leaving the property too?

Also, the crime happened on Monday and it was Thursday before TH was reported missing. Avery had plenty of time to carry on disposing of the body parts.

Bear did not keep LE at bay for 2 days. They had no reason to go near the pit (unless of course they knew something was there :thinking My dog would chase down another dog but would lick a stranger to death. She is an alpha female. The dog handler was with another dog. Just because Bear didn't like other dogs, doesn't mean Bear was a mean furious dog.

As I said before, who knows whether Bear was barking or not and if it drew anyone's attention. My furious bad *advertiser censored* *advertiser censored* dog :facepalm: would bark at leaves blowing in the wind. After a while, we just stopped looking at what she was barking at. I think our cat was more furious than our alpha female. Of course, only if another dog wasn't near by.

I understand SA and CA were not at Menard's all week. Did they need to be in order for an opportunity to present itself??

Your right Avery had plenty of time to dispose of poor TH (RIP TH :rose but...so did someone else. You mean to tell me a guy who has a quarry next door doesn't have the means to dispose of TH and watch for an opportunity to put the evidence at Avery's? We have no idea what conversations took place between JR and SA. For all we know SA could have told JR that he was going to buy the quarry and JR did it to make sure SA wouldn't have the opportunity. JMHO of course.

 

[missy1974]

About Bear....

I am just not convinced he was a vicious guard dog. And if he was, I would think that the 100's of LE and others on the Avery property would have dealt with Bear before the 8th. They left a "vicious dog" for 3 days? No way. They fed him, they gave him water. I have not seen any evidence to support that Bear was tied up 24/7. To the contrary, I remember reading something that gave me the impression that Bear was allowed in the house. I will say JMO because I haven't looked to see if I can find it right now.

Also.... Bear "guarding" the burn pit still does not explain how a retired forensic anthropologist was able to identify the remains using an ilium bone belong to a human female, when there is no ilium bone included in the remains found in the burn pit. The only mention or visual presence of an ilium bone is the one found at the quarry, which later Eisenberg could not even confirm if it was human. jmo

 

[dexter75]

There is just one little issue with any theory that suggests that someone planted bones in Avery's burn pit.... And when I say little, I mean a 35 Kilo issue....

Avery's dog 'Bear' was chained up 24/7 and was a very useful guard dog. It barked and it was very aggressive. It was not a very nice example of a dog, probably because it was mistreated. Bear kept investigators at bay for 2 days and would threaten anyone (or other dog,) that came near.

If someone planted the Cremains, they had to get past a very vicious dog. Not only that, but would its barking not of alerted anyone? Avery claims he saw tail lights, the story of which was inserted into his narrative very early on. If he would have said that his dog went berserk one night and his barking woke everyone up, that might have been more believable. But he didn't. His dog didn't bark at any intruders, because no intruder got near that burn pit, without alerting Bear.

Who said he was chained 24/7 and was vicious? Thanks

 

[dexter75]

About Bear....

I am just not convinced he was a vicious guard dog. And if he was, I would think that the 100's of LE and others on the Avery property would have dealt with Bear before the 8th. They left a "vicious dog" for 3 days? No way. They fed him, they gave him water. I have not seen any evidence to support that Bear was tied up 24/7. To the contrary, I remember reading something that gave me the impression that Bear was allowed in the house. I will say JMO because I haven't looked to see if I can find it right now.

Also.... Bear "guarding" the burn pit still does not explain how a retired forensic anthropologist was able to identify the remains using an ilium bone belong to a human female, when there is no ilium bone included in the remains found in the burn pit. The only mention or visual presence of an ilium bone is the one found at the quarry, which later Eisenberg could not even confirm if it was human. jmo

EXACTLY!!

A LOT of these officers had nothing but pure hatred for SA!

Now, I am a VERY open minded & reasonable girl ( IMO ) & there is NO amount of speculation possible that is going to convince this chic that those officers were going to let a DOG...owned by the one and ONLY Steven Avery keep them from doing their BEST job possible UNLESS it BENEFITED THEM. In this instance it did not. In fact it was super convenient for LE that " Bear the beast" was on guard during this time!

IMO, had LE absolutely NEEDED a dozen superior quality photos of that pit & Bear were " on guard " and in the way...they'd have shot the poor boy to get those pics.

 

[Ozoner]

I think Steven Avery killed Theresa Halbach in his bedroom. I believe that sexual assault was the motive, so it makes sense that he would have abducted her and taken her there.
*
The evidence against Avery is compelling. It's a little sad that so many peopled have been duped by the smoke & mirrors of the Netflix series. "And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
*
Let's not forget, this is a guy who doused a live kitten with motor oil and tossed it into a bonfire. Avery is a psychopath who is capable of any atrocity. Don't waste your sympathy on this lowlife, folks.

 

[proudfootz]

Apparently the prosecution didn't have adequate evidence for any rape charge against Steven Avery, and the judge threw that out.

So it looks like that's not a very credible 'motive'.

Police took apart the bedroom and the garage, and didn't find any credible evidence of any assault or murder, so it seems apparent if there were such crimes committed against Teresa, it wasn't at Steven's home or garage.

But we do have credible evidence from phone records that's where Steven was. So it would appear that Steven didn't take part in any such crimes.

From my perspective, the doubts about the case against Steven are beyond merely reasonable.

 

[Limaes]

I think Steven Avery killed Theresa Halbach in his bedroom. I believe that sexual assault was the motive, so it makes sense that he would have abducted her and taken her there.
*
The evidence against Avery is compelling. It's a little sad that so many peopled have been duped by the smoke & mirrors of the Netflix series. "And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
*
Let's not forget, this is a guy who doused a live kitten with motor oil and tossed it into a bonfire. Avery is a psychopath who is capable of any atrocity. Don't waste your sympathy on this lowlife, folks.

I also think sexual assault was the motive and yes, the evidence against him is very compelling. It has withstood countless appeals, a one-sided television show, tons of internet sleuthers and a hot shot attorney. In my opinion, when this is all over with, Lady Justice will still be standing unscathed from all the lies of the propaganda machine.