He's certainly dangerous to cats.
Dassey isn't.
He's certainly dangerous to cats.
For all of those on the fence, let me ask you one question. The innocence project was involved in freeing Avery the first time....where were they during the 2nd? Why were they not there? After all, some are claiming he was framed, he's innocent, etc. etc. Isn't that what they fight for, righting the wrong? Why didn't they feel the need to get involved the supposedly 2nd time, he was an innocent man going to jail.
I think SA likely did kill her. But call me old fashioned, I'd like to see actual proof. As for the bullet, the woman testifying about it admitted on the stand that once she had contaminated the only existing and very tiny sample of dna on it, the test should have been ruled inconclusive, by her own words and her own protocol. So, I don't really know what to make of the bullet. My belief is that likely a few people who live on the property do know what happened to her and were involved with the crime itself or at least the cleanup and cover up of the crime. I do not believe SA acted alone if he acted at all. I do not believe SA and his nephew could have cleaned up a scene so well. There are more averys and / or tadychs who know the truth. Is there one piece of conrete, physical evidence that does NOT have a murky, shady, planted type of angle to it ? If so, I cannot recall it.
Question for everyone ..........if SA had not been wrongfully convicted prior , would you feel as certain about his innocence this go around?
Polygraphy everyone who lived on the property in 2005 and you 'll see the truth ! Moooo
But polygraphs can be fooled and the skill level of the person administering the test matters greatly. Plus they are not evidence of anything.
I have a hard time believing the conspiracy theory, but I am not as versed in the evidence yet as some of you as I've just watched the Netflix documentary and Nancy Grace show on guilt.
A few things from the Grace show stuck out to me ...
1) Steven told investigators that Teresa had driven off after she gave him the Auto Trader magazine. If true, you would have to believe that someone chased Teresa down, forced her off the road, killed her, and then planted all of the evidence and vehicle on the Avery property. Far fetched if you ask me ...
2) When told by investigators that Teresa's blood was in his trailer, Steven replied "it couldn't be". If he is indeed guilty, that would mean that
he knows he and Brendan took her out to the garage and killed her there. I will concede that some might believe that Steve meant that no blood would be found in the trailer as Teresa was never in the trailer.
3) Brendan's confession to investigators in the Grace show seemed too detailed to be coerced and forced. Now it could be that investigators had spoon fed Brendan all of the little details prior to that meeting, but I just don't see it.
4) Steven's phone calls to the Auto Trader requesting Teresa specifically to come see the van ( not in either show, but true ?)
I'll have more as I get more versed on the evidence, but I'm in the Steven did it camp right now.
1. I think the other main suspects are other people who were on the Avery property at the time. This is a huge salvage yard so Steven could have seen her drive away from his location, but then she was stopped by someone else while still on the property.
2. I'm extremely confused on how this is a point leading to Avery's guilt. The police lied to him in an interrogation about there being blood in his trailer, and when he says "it couldn't be" that means he knew she was killed in the garage. If you believe the Dassey confession then there should be Teresa's DNA all over the trailer and the garage, except there wasn't aside from a bullet fragment with a tiny trace of her DNA.
3. Brendan had multiple interrogations by the detectives including some that weren't taped, and there was information about the case all over the news at the time. The things he confessed to were all over the place (earning the disapproval from the detectives) until he started hitting on the right details which earned approval from the detectives.
4. He didn't ask for Teresa specifically, but asked Auto Trader to send out 'The girl you sent last time'. I don't know but I think it's pretty normal to ask for the same person if they've done work for you before and you thought they did a good job. I certainly hope my hairdresser never goes missing after an appointment with her, since I ask for the same person to cut my hair!
1. Maybe and I could be mistaken, but wasn't the van to be photographed by the main road ?
2. As I mentioned above, I can look at Steven's statement either way.
3. Just my opinion on the Brendan interrogation on the Grace program - doesn't seem coerced or forced at all. And I don't know when that interrogation was done ... certainly Brendan would have talked to his mother by then or a lawyer as I don't believe that was the first time he
was questioned.
4. What about the *67 calls made to Auto Trader ? And why would Steven go to the trailer door wearing just a towel if he knew Teresa was coming to take pictures of a vehicle ?
Trying to keep an open mind ...
1. So looking at this map it seems that the van was at the very end of the long main road of the property, but in order to leave TH would have had to drive down it past several other Avery homes to get to Avery road, and then had to drive down that to get to the main highway.
2. Fair enough, I'm just still confused on how that statement could be interpreted that way. It seems to me like it's a straight forward denial, and that even if he had killed her in the garage there would have had to have been a lot of clean up to make sure that there wasn't even a trace of blood tracked into the trailer.
3. Ah well that makes sense from a Nancy Grace program. I haven't seen it, but I know she is usually chomping at the bit to be gather the torches and pitchforks against someone. The technique that the detectives used against him is particularly well known for eliciting false confessions. The first taped interview is actually the third interrogation Brendan has had where the detectives had been feeding him details of the crime, as well as what was in the media at the time. Lots and lots of people, including those who are much more sophisticated than Brendan and his mother, waive their right to having an attorney present when being interrogated by the police. The police are trained to treat Miranda rights like they're just a formality with suspects and that they're 'just having a chat' to 'get their side of the story and ask a few questions'. Many people believe that their innocence will protect them within an interrogation.
4. I agree the *67 calls and answering the door in a towel are weird but not so out of the ordinary that I think it's a good indication of his guilt. In 2010 I worked for the census and I had several people answer the door in just a towel and not act disturbed in the least while I was asking them questions, despite me offering to come back later. Some people are just slobs. Also, from what I understand this was just a one time event and TH's reaction was more like "Eww, gross dude." than feeling creeped out.
Also just to note I am not saying that SA is innocent. I just don't think that there is enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did it based on the evidence that has been presented. SA very well could have killed her, but the investigation was so bungled that we will never know for sure.
Have to admit usually Websleuths is my "go too" on all cases but the theories being thrown out here have me scratching my head at the moment , I also see people that in my eyes are bringing up some great points being completely slammed down.
The amount of juggling people are doing to clear Avery is mental to me. I've even seen comments actually blaming the murder on the LE ...whatever about the planting but the murder ?! People actually believe the LE murdered this girl to lock lil Stevie up .....It's all getting a lil too silly too me . MOO
Thanks for your reply.
I'll add a few thoughts and let it go until I have some time to review all of the evidence.
1. Why would anyone else in the Avery family have stopped Teresa if only Steven knew she was coming ?
2. What you believe is a straight forward denial could have been a slip on Steven's part, thinking to himself that he killed Teresa in the garage.
As far as cleaning up the garage, I believe it could have been done easily with the right chemicals. I have doubts about the 5 gunshots in the garage as to why no one else heard them. Or Teresa's screams for that matter ...
3. I don't doubt that Nancy Grace believes both Avery/Dassey to be guilty, but I was trying to be objective based on the Brendan/police interview I saw. Brendan doesn't sound nearly as dumb and slow as he appears in the first interview. I will go back and review all interview tapes though.
4. I believe the difference between Steven's towel act and your census work is that Steven knew when Teresa was coming. And I do believe the only reason Teresa went back to the Avery's was that she was led to believe she wouldn't have to deal with Steven.
Thanks for your reply.
I'll add a few thoughts and let it go until I have some time to review all of the evidence.
1. Why would anyone else in the Avery family have stopped Teresa if only Steven knew she was coming ?
2. What you believe is a straight forward denial could have been a slip on Steven's part, thinking to himself that he killed Teresa in the garage.
As far as cleaning up the garage, I believe it could have been done easily with the right chemicals. I have doubts about the 5 gunshots in the garage as to why no one else heard them. Or Teresa's screams for that matter ...
3. I don't doubt that Nancy Grace believes both Avery/Dassey to be guilty, but I was trying to be objective based on the Brendan/police interview I saw. Brendan doesn't sound nearly as dumb and slow as he appears in the first interview. I will go back and review all interview tapes though.
4. I believe the difference between Steven's towel act and your census work is that Steven knew when Teresa was coming. And I do believe the only reason Teresa went back to the Avery's was that she was led to believe she wouldn't have to deal with Steven.
Thanks for your reply.
I'll add a few thoughts and let it go until I have some time to review all of the evidence.
1. Why would anyone else in the Avery family have stopped Teresa if only Steven knew she was coming ?
2. What you believe is a straight forward denial could have been a slip on Steven's part, thinking to himself that he killed Teresa in the garage.
As far as cleaning up the garage, I believe it could have been done easily with the right chemicals. I have doubts about the 5 gunshots in the garage as to why no one else heard them. Or Teresa's screams for that matter ...
3. I don't doubt that Nancy Grace believes both Avery/Dassey to be guilty, but I was trying to be objective based on the Brendan/police interview I saw. Brendan doesn't sound nearly as dumb and slow as he appears in the first interview. I will go back and review all interview tapes though.
4. I believe the difference between Steven's towel act and your census work is that Steven knew when Teresa was coming. And I do believe the only reason Teresa went back to the Avery's was that she was led to believe she wouldn't have to deal with Steven.
1. Many people knew she was coming. Chuck, Earl, and Fabian all knew. It's possible that Bobby or Scott could have known as well. Steven told others she was coming.
2. I don't get what you mean by how saying "it couldn't be", means she was killed in the garage any more than her possibly being killed in the rav4, the woods, or anywhere. Unclear on how you come to that assumption. To me, that means he was saying there couldn't be blood in the trailer. He probably said the same thing to every other place they said they found something. But to isolate that statement as if it's the only thing that got said, to make a point, is a bit of a stretch.
3. Do you believe he was acting when he thought that he might be able to go home after confessing to rape/murder ? Was he that good of an actor to sell that maybe he was actually going to be able to catch wrestlemania ?
4. We know that steven contacted her via cellphone, and she still came. Also, she's well aware of the location, regardless of name given. -- I personally believe that the whole auto trader/calls etc is suspicious, but just want to clarify that she KNEW who she'd be meeting before she arrived.
1. Did the others admit under oath that they knew Teresa was coming ? Or did Steven say he told the others you mentioned ?
2. Maybe a bit of a stretch ... but I'm assuming he's guilty and under interrogation trying to cover his tracks. How do we really know if wasn't thinking of the actual sequence of events of the crime ? I'll leave it at that for now.
3. Are you asking about Brendan's behavior during the 1st confession ? I really think he was clueless at that point and really thought he could go home. But I was specifically referring to the interrogation shown on the Grace special. I just find it hard to believe that he would continue admitting to a crime in multiple interrogations, after being able to speak with his family and a lawyer.
4. I also missed the evidence of Steven's cell phone call to Teresa on the day of the murder, but how would have the *67 Auto Trader calls have been released without a subpoena of phone records ?
I have a hard time believing the conspiracy theory, but I am not as versed in the evidence yet as some of you as I've just watched the Netflix documentary and Nancy Grace show on guilt.
A few things from the Grace show stuck out to me ...
1) Steven told investigators that Teresa had driven off after she gave him the Auto Trader magazine. If true, you would have to believe that someone chased Teresa down, forced her off the road, killed her, and then planted all of the evidence and vehicle on the Avery property. Far fetched if you ask me ...
2) When told by investigators that Teresa's blood was in his trailer, Steven replied "it couldn't be". If he is indeed guilty, that would mean that
he knows he and Brendan took her out to the garage and killed her there. I will concede that some might believe that Steve meant that no blood would be found in the trailer as Teresa was never in the trailer.
3) Brendan's confession to investigators in the Grace show seemed too detailed to be coerced and forced. Now it could be that investigators had spoon fed Brendan all of the little details prior to that meeting, but I just don't see it.
4) Steven's phone calls to the Auto Trader requesting Teresa specifically to come see the van ( not in either show, but true ?)
I'll have more as I get more versed on the evidence, but I'm in the Steven did it camp right now.