Who Has Heard Burke's Voice on The 911 Tape?

[UKGuy]

I agree it is quite strange! You find a (kidnapping) ransom note, your daughter's bed is empty, and you're not panicked beyond words, that you say "our" - would never happen, the convo is a one-on-one - "my daughter is gone - HELP" i would scream at the top of my lungs.... This case is beyond weird and sad as well. Wonder how Burke is doing these days. Can't imagine he's acting fine and normal....

KayCherry,
mmm, last I heard he was being groomed for a position as an energy consultant? He will be acting fine and normal around close friends, e.g. DS.

I'm hoping once JR moves on BR will do one of those, this is how it was documentaries, hoping to elevate his profile.

I reckon the case will explode once JR leaves us since there will be no more legal cheques, no more incentive for a cover up, only JR's estate will be able to litigate, and apparently you cannot legally defame those departed?

.

 

[lawstudent]

I believe if we ever find anything out, it will be when JR dies or becomes incapacitated, and Burke talks (or someone very close to the family talks). That information may not be a confession or even truthful, but reading between the lines would probably illuminate some things. Rarely are people able to keep their mouths shut forever, guilty or not, when something has followed them around like this with so much speculation. Depending on what is said, defamation may not play in. That's also true now. Whatever is keeping people quiet, if they know anything, isn't significantly related to defamation, unless they are mixing what they know/think with dangerous speculation. Idk if somehow the grand jury stuff will become releasable one of these days - we've gone over the legalities of that. But yes, defamation claims by estates are not going to proceed - no reputation interest once you are dead. Now that im rambling cuz i cant sleep, i think the grand jury stuff will come out more and more. Look at cosby and duggar and recent hackings - the media/interested people are getting wise to how much of this info exists and how to get it, legally or otherwise. If the case gets another wave of attention, it wouldn't surprise me if we got more.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I remember reading a profile of the grand jury members and they were all or most were in their 50's and 60's, and that was 15+ years ago. I wonder what effect that will have on whether we ever get more information from them. They obviously did a great job of keeping the indictment secret for as long as they did.

I doubt Burke is ever going to confess or tell how his parents killed his sister. I wonder whether he will continue to remain silent after John dies, or will start promoting the intruder theory here and there. Those are the only two options, IMO.

 

[gogrannypop]

I remember reading a profile of the grand jury members and they were all or most were in their 50's and 60's, and that was 15+ years ago. I wonder what effect that will have on whether we ever get more information from them. They obviously did a great job of keeping the indictment secret for as long as they did.

I doubt Burke is ever going to confess or tell how his parents killed his sister. I wonder whether he will continue to remain silent after John dies, or will start promoting the intruder theory here and there. Those are the only two options, IMO.

I predict he will remain silent. It has worked so far.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I predict he will remain silent. It has worked so far.

That's how I feel. Unless John has banned him from talking to the media, he's going to be 29 in January and has never said a word. He seems to have no interest in getting his side heard. He's also likely been raised with the notion that the media is evil and destroyed his family's life. He does not want attention from this case/his sister's death. He won't even mention her on FB. It all seems to fit pretty well with what we know about his personality as a child. Remember how he asked "Does this mean we aren't going to Disney?" after JBR was found? If he still has that sort of personality, I don't think an interview would be good PR for him.

 

[andreww]

I believe if we ever find anything out, it will be when JR dies or becomes incapacitated, and Burke talks (or someone very close to the family talks). That information may not be a confession or even truthful, but reading between the lines would probably illuminate some things. Rarely are people able to keep their mouths shut forever, guilty or not, when something has followed them around like this with so much speculation. Depending on what is said, defamation may not play in. That's also true now. Whatever is keeping people quiet, if they know anything, isn't significantly related to defamation, unless they are mixing what they know/think with dangerous speculation. Idk if somehow the grand jury stuff will become releasable one of these days - we've gone over the legalities of that. But yes, defamation claims by estates are not going to proceed - no reputation interest once you are dead. Now that im rambling cuz i cant sleep, i think the grand jury stuff will come out more and more. Look at cosby and duggar and recent hackings - the media/interested people are getting wise to how much of this info exists and how to get it, legally or otherwise. If the case gets another wave of attention, it wouldn't surprise me if we got more.

You have something to learn about the ways of the ultra rich. They'll put up with a lot, including murder, but family secrets are just that. Speak of them and you'll be ostracized and financially cut off. Burke ain't stupid. He got a great education, a hot girlfriend and a good job, and to my knowledge never spent a day of his life flipping burgers to get there. He is quite aware how quickly all that can go away and will likely never speak of it again.


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[lawstudent]

You have something to learn about the ways of the ultra rich. They'll put up with a lot, including murder, but family secrets are just that. Speak of them and you'll be ostracized and financially cut off. Burke ain't stupid. He got a great education, a hot girlfriend and a good job, and to my knowledge never spent a day of his life flipping burgers to get there. He is quite aware how quickly all that can go away and will likely never speak of it again.


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I do not think that is unique to the ultra rich. Family secrets are pervasive. It is more common among those who care a lot about reputation, for sure, which often goes along with having wealth and status. But it's not a bribery thing - people tend to talk even when they will lose out financially and in many other ways. The guilt gets them. But controlling/intimidating parents and a secretive family culture can make the guilt of blabbing outweigh the guilt of staying quiet. In any event, I was saying after his father died, he may talk. At that point, money or family embarrassment would no longer be a big issue. Humans are self-interested, but even people in ideal positions have a conscience. I've seen so many cases where I can't believe the person talked after getting away with it so long. Saw a show on the Candy Roughsurface case recently - rich, privileged teens who never would have gotten caught and had everything to lose. But the less culpable one started telling everyone a few decades later. Crazy.

 

[OliviaG1996]

This discussion of power and wealth reminds me of the Martha Moxley case. The Skakels were extremely rich, and their status higher than anyone else's in their neighborhood because of their relation to the Kennedys. LE was intimidated by their power and influence, so they didn't search the Skakel home as much as they should have when Martha was found dead a few backyards away even though the last place she was seen alive was outside the Skakel home. LE had also found a set of golf clubs matching the one used to bludgeon Martha to death inside the Skakel home, but stopped searching there. Years later, it leaks out that Michael Skakel had not kept quiet enough (as his father had most likely warned him to), saying he killed Martha to more than one person. It caught up to him and got him convicted eventually, although he was released and is awaiting a new trial.

I don't think any of the Rs (if RDI) are ever going to confess, considering they've been "cleared" for the most part and are living very successful lives. I don't think they're going to risk ruining that. JMO.

 

[elannia]

Im curious about the GJ indictment, they had in fact issued an indictment against JR and PR, but AH felt the need to not press any charges or move forward, wonder what the GJ thought about that, after their many hours being at the courthouse, listening to witnesses, evidence, etc. Its obvious the only reason AH even convened a GJ was just to keep everyone happy by going forward with it, he had no plans of ever charging the R's with anything. How did those jurors keep silent after all these years(well I know why, because of GJ secrecy), but I wonder what was running through their minds when AH got up and stated no charges would be filed. That would have been a hard secret for me to keep, even after all these years, and their were plenty more people who knew too what the GJ decided on.

 

[andreww]

Im curious about the GJ indictment, they had in fact issued an indictment against JR and PR, but AH felt the need to not press any charges or move forward, wonder what the GJ thought about that, after their many hours being at the courthouse, listening to witnesses, evidence, etc. Its obvious the only reason AH even convened a GJ was just to keep everyone happy by going forward with it, he had no plans of ever charging the R's with anything. How did those jurors keep silent after all these years(well I know why, because of GJ secrecy), but I wonder what was running through their minds when AH got up and stated no charges would be filed. That would have been a hard secret for me to keep, even after all these years, and their were plenty more people who knew too what the GJ decided on.

I would guess that this people feel the same way that you and I feel, that an injustice was being perpetrated ant that there was nothing they could do about it. Any rational thinking person who is familiar with all aspects of this case will come to the conclusion that John and Patsy were certainly involved in one way or another in the death of their daughter. Charges should have been laid. Unfortunately the Ramseys benefited from their wealth from day one. You or I would never have been able to leave that house on that day, and would likely have been separated and grilled until one of us confessed or implicated the other. In my opinion this case was lost when BPD let the Ramseys walk that day. The compromised crime scene could have been overcome, but once the Ramsey's got to the nearest phone and surrounded themselves with attorneys it was game over.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I would guess that this people feel the same way that you and I feel, that an injustice was being perpetrated ant that there was nothing they could do about it. Any rational thinking person who is familiar with all aspects of this case will come to the conclusion that John and Patsy were certainly involved in one way or another in the death of their daughter. Charges should have been laid. Unfortunately the Ramseys benefited from their wealth from day one. You or I would never have been able to leave that house on that day, and would likely have been separated and grilled until one of us confessed or implicated the other. In my opinion this case was lost when BPD let the Ramseys walk that day. The compromised crime scene could have been overcome, but once the Ramsey's got to the nearest phone and surrounded themselves with attorneys it was game over.

I use to think that, but recently there was a 4-year-old girl who was found strangled in her bedroom. Her death was declared a homicide, and the parents are POI. Of course they are claiming it was an accident. Anyway, it's been about 6 months since she was killed, and no arrests. Of course it's still pretty early. But the parents are middle-class, and so far, have gotten away (IMO) with killing their daughter. There was an article with the coroner who asked "Where is the outcry?" regarding Carlene's death, which tells me he is confident she was murdered. It doesn't seem like LE is grilling them until they confess.

I use to think that if you were going to kill your child, and "present" their body to LE, you had to be wealthy, but that case makes me think otherwise. If there was no media circus over JBR's case, would there be less pressure for LE to arrest the R's, and would the R's have to spend less money protecting themselves?

Carlene's parents were pretty smart to claim it was an accident. They must know that the whole "Intruder came into our house and murdered our daughter!" has been done before and is not going to fly.

 

[andreww]

I use to think that, but recently there was a 4-year-old girl who was found strangled in her bedroom. Her death was declared a homicide, and the parents are POI. Of course they are claiming it was an accident. Anyway, it's been about 6 months since she was killed, and no arrests. Of course it's still pretty early. But the parents are middle-class, and so far, have gotten away (IMO) with killing their daughter. There was an article with the coroner who asked "Where is the outcry?" regarding Carlene's death, which tells me he is confident she was murdered. It doesn't seem like LE is grilling them until they confess.

I use to think that if you were going to kill your child, and "present" their body to LE, you had to be wealthy, but that case makes me think otherwise. If there was no media circus over JBR's case, would there be less pressure for LE to arrest the R's, and would the R's have to spend less money protecting themselves?

Carlene's parents were pretty smart to claim it was an accident. They must know that the whole "Intruder came into our house and murdered our daughter!" has been done before and is not going to fly.

Or maybe it actually was an accident? Maybe the parents voluntarily talked to police, weren't deceptive, didn't lawyer up, and their story made sense. Bad accidents do happen and every childs death isn't foul play.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Or maybe it actually was an accident?

Except it was ruled a homicide by the coroner. The police have called the parents POI. I don't think the police are out to get a middle class, white couple.

 

[andreww]

Whats the childs full name?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Carlene Rigby

 

[andreww]

Carlene Rigby

I've read as much as I can find on this case and its hard to get a feel for it one way or another, which is the way it probably should be. There are obviously many things we don't know about that case, in fact we know nothing except that the was found strangled with the cord from the blinds around her neck. The Coroner has deemed it a homicide. Aside from that we know nothing, including how the parents are being treated. But I will say that unlike the Ramseys, the DA has named the parents publicly as the prime POIs. It might take up to a year, but there will be an arrest in that case.

 

[lawstudent]

I think parents get away with it way more than people realize, especially in the past, regardless of income. But they usually present it as an accident, because that is usually the most believable scenario. Children are very rarely killed in their homes by strangers. Unless they hide the body elsewhere, any story of an invasion sounds weird and requires them to explain where they were when it happened. Most are probably abuse gone too far. With something as weird as this, though, it's hard to say what 'normally' happens with police response.

I assume this has been discussed a length before I joined WS, but while I can see LE deciding not to go after the family, that John Mark Karr thing was really weird. It's difficult for me to imagine that many people involved in LE care enough to try and prove someone else did it in order to exonerate the family, when it ended so embarrassingly. It seems like they are kind of clueless and self-preserving more than trying to protect the Ramseys due to their status.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I think in the cases where the child is abused until their death, very few parents are getting away with it. When the police do an autopsy and find all the child's injuries, someone is going to be charged. It might be mom's boyfriend and mom is not arrested, but someone will be. I think in these cases, the man is used to getting his way, used to people believing him, which is why he seriously thinks he can call 911, say it was an accident, and nothing will happen.

Then, you have the cases where the parent(s) kill the child and dispose of the body. These seem to be the cases (at least from what I've seen on WS) where the parents are most likely to get away with it.

I am not sure how many cases there like Carlene's where police believe a murder was staged to look like an accident. Cooper Harris would be another one.

Then, you have the cases like JonBenet, Diane Down's kids, Darlie Routier's kids, Jeffrey McDonald's kids, where the parents "present" their child's body to LE and claim someone else killed them. An intruder. The difference between them and JonBenet's case is that the intruder intended to murder the kids in the home, tried to kill the parents too, etc. So the Ramseys framed JonBenet's case as being like Jessica Lunsford's case (to an extent) where someone took her out of her bed, wheras cases like Routier and McDonald murders, are framed more like the Petit family case. A home invasion.

I feel like all child murders by parents fit into one of those four categories. I am almost surprised there hasn't been a copycat for JonBenet's murder. Where the parent kills the child and claims an intruder? Maybe it has happened and it didn't get much publicity and the parent was arrested shortly after.

 

[lawstudent]

I am almost surprised there hasn't been a copycat for JonBenet's murder. Where the parent kills the child and claims an intruder? Maybe it has happened and it didn't get much publicity and the parent was arrested shortly after.

Me too. The argument would be people learned it wasn't that believable, but a whole lot of people never think things through. It's the type of thing a dramatic, self-centered, not-so-bright person would think sounds brilliant, maybe even if they had never heard of this case. People kill spouses that way all the time despite all the arrests. I guess there were a lot of 'crazy' cases in the 80s and 90s, both because the media made us aware and because people started playing to the media. Susan Smith etc. - not the exact same, but a lot of wild tales that turned out to be total lies by people closest to the victims. Hysteria about the occult and molestation and all of that. Maybe most people did wise up.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Me too. The argument would be people learned it wasn't that believable, but a whole lot of people never think things through. It's the type of thing a dramatic, self-centered, not-so-bright person would think sounds brilliant, maybe even if they had never heard of this case. People kill spouses that way all the time despite all the arrests. I guess there were a lot of 'crazy' cases in the 80s and 90s, both because the media made us aware and because people started playing to the media. Susan Smith etc. - not the exact same, but a lot of wild tales that turned out to be total lies by people closest to the victims. Hysteria about the occult and molestation and all of that. Maybe most people did wise up.

It's possible that there have been parents who tried the "Intruder did it!" story but were arrested shortly after. If the case is solved, I wouldn't expect people to still be discussing it anywhere. With few exceptions, most solved cases fade into obscruity. I am constantly becoming aware of really interesting cases from the past.

I think another reason people choose to go with the accident coverup is there is no pressure on you to speak to the media. If you are claiming your child died accidentally, the public isn't going to go into a frenzy. It's a different story if you are saying an intruder entered your home to kill your child.