Who Has Heard Burke's Voice on The 911 Tape?

[singularity]

I think Burke was told very simply, stick to the story or the police will take you away for a long time. No more friends, no more mom and dad, no more vacations, boats, no more Legos or Nintendo. You will be with hardened teens who will beat you up on the regular. So Burke...JonBenet was asleep when we got home. You both went to bed. You were asleep. You heard nothing. You saw no one. We will take care of the rest (ransom note).

That's a fair point but can they really depend on a 9 year old child who has never been tested to such a degree to stay composed and not bring down the entire house of cards? Their entire lives(house, money, his job, etc.) depended on it. Countless millions of dollars and future millions were at stake.

On the other hand, cant really underestimate a dysfunctional family's ability to keep secrets.

Then we finally get the GJ charges and whoops, they were both charged by the GJ for covering up a first degree murder by a third person. There were only 3 survivors that night. It isn't that hard to figure out.

This "third person" committed first degree murder and child abuse. As we all know, Burke couldn't be charged with any of it.

LW, who I am no fan of, brought this point up recently as well and its valid.

Be careful when you talk about what the grand jury was ready to do. I've seen the recommendation of the grand jury, and it certainly didn't involve Burke Ramsey. It talked about assisting someone in the first-degree charge of murder. That wouldn't apply to Burke.

So while it might not be hard to figure out for some, I wouldn't mind an explanation on this borderline paradox. The few times this has been questioned it's never answered or if it has, its buried in one of these lengthy threads.

IMO this issue is going to be a major factor in the suit. While I hope like many others that it winds up causing the Ramseys to have to finally explain themselves, I think its going to lead to a quick settlement and these various shows yanked from the air.

 

[k-mac]

That's a fair point but can they really depend on a 9 year old child who has never been tested to such a degree to stay composed and not bring down the entire house of cards? Their entire lives(house, money, his job, etc.) depended on it. Countless millions of dollars and future millions were at stake.

On the other hand, cant really underestimate a dysfunctional family's ability to keep secrets.



This "third person" committed first degree murder and child abuse. As we all know, Burke couldn't be charged with any of it.

LW, who I am no fan of, brought this point up recently as well and its valid.



So while it might not be hard to figure out for some, I wouldn't mind an explanation on this borderline paradox. The few times this has been questioned it's never answered or if it has, its buried in one of these lengthy threads.

IMO this issue is going to be a major factor in the suit. While I hope like many others that it winds up causing the Ramseys to have to finally explain themselves, I think its going to lead to a quick settlement and these various shows yanked from the air.

agreed for the average 9/10 year old but BR is no average kid!
the fact he told the shrink when asked about secrets a week after his sisters death if he had any, "he wouldnt tell her " says BR knows very well what keeping his trap shut truly means.
jmho

 

[TeaTime]

"Infancy" is a defense to murder, it does not make the murder less of a murder. The defense has implications on the culpability for the crime but does not dissolve the crime itself as though it never happened. LW knows this.

 

[kanzz]

I have such a hard time with forgiveness though when the guilty party won't accept their misdeeds. Should they finally admit what happened, then I may let it go into forgiveness. I just can't forget how many people they ruined in their campaign to shut down the truth. Not to mention JonBenet has no Justice yet. But that's just me. I'm a sweetheart but I have such strong beliefs in standing up for the voiceless. PR had a voice and could have spoken on her deathbed. I do hope she found forgiveness with God. I'm not a person to let things be. Not when justice hasn't been found. We all have our beliefs and that's what makes us human and different from each other and I love that we can all be different and still discuss this with each other with kindness. :loveyou:

Oh, don't get me wrong. There are some in my personal life who will never be forgiven by me, but I no longer have any emotion about them. The 3 R's, I don't forgive them, but I have no real emotion for them either.. except to get PO'd occasionally. That forgiveness is between them and their God. Once the staging was set into motion, there was no backing up or backing down. They were "rolling downhill like a snowball headed for hell" (figuratively). I don't know at what point they could ever stop it and admit they had lied.

 

[Annapurna]

That's a fair point but can they really depend on a 9 year old child who has never been tested to such a degree to stay composed and not bring down the entire house of cards? Their entire lives(house, money, his job, etc.) depended on it. Countless millions of dollars and future millions were at stake.

On the other hand, cant really underestimate a dysfunctional family's ability to keep secrets.



This "third person" committed first degree murder and child abuse. As we all know, Burke couldn't be charged with any of it.

LW, who I am no fan of, brought this point up recently as well and its valid.



So while it might not be hard to figure out for some, I wouldn't mind an explanation on this borderline paradox. The few times this has been questioned it's never answered or if it has, its buried in one of these lengthy threads.

IMO this issue is going to be a major factor in the suit. While I hope like many others that it winds up causing the Ramseys to have to finally explain themselves, I think its going to lead to a quick settlement and these various shows yanked from the air.

As other more law-savvy posters have said before me: essentially the way the Infancy law works in CO is that a child under 10 cannot be charged or made a suspect in a crime, but it does not mean that a crime wasn't committed (because a mother charged with causing delinquency of a minor tried to sue the state under these terms and was ruled against. Her side was that she cannot be charged with a crime since the kid didn't get charged.)

So to sum it up: BR cannot be charged with 1st degree murder, but the GJ indictments can still be referring to him, as a 1st degree murder did occur (and 1st degree does not have to mean pre-meditated, it can apply in this case because the death was caused during the commission of a felony crime, such as kidnapping or child abuse).

 

[kanzz]

<snipped> They were "rolling downhill like a snowball headed for hell" (figuratively).

Am I the only old Merle Haggard fan in the crowd? This line is from an old Hag song whose title (and that line) I thought was applicable to the R's - "Are the good times really over for good".

[video]https://youtu.be/Gv61zBZacpo[/video]

 

[BBB167893]

Am I the only old Merle Haggard fan in the crowd? This line is from an old Hag song whose title (and that line) I thought was applicable to the R's - "Are the good times really over for good".

[video]https://youtu.be/Gv61zBZacpo[/video]

I love Merle! In fact, I'm thinking "If We Make It Through December" is especially apropos right now.

 

[johnjay]

I stumbled across this the other day: [video=youtube;BYTlN6wjcvQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ[/video]

The part relevant to the thread starts at 5:20 and goes to about 8:00, it gives a good demonstration on how we can be tricked into hearing things.

Now, I still think that I hear Burke and John's voice on the tape but I'm pretty susceptible to these sorts of things. There's even a test you
can take designed to see how susceptible you are to such absorption - The Tellegan Absorption test.

 

[Heymom]

I can be pretty ruthless at times; but when it comes to the heaven and hell issue, I'm not big on condemning anyone to an eternity in a fiery pit. Call me a bleeding heart, too. I'm OK with that.

We have no idea how much mercy God offers to any of us when we die. I personally hope it's endless! And that hell is empty, just waiting for Satan and his minions. Yes, even Patsy and Hitler deserve mercy.

 

[FairM1]

I stumbled across this the other day: [video=youtube;BYTlN6wjcvQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ[/video]

The part relevant to the thread starts at 5:20 and goes to about 8:00, it gives a good demonstration on how we can be tricked into hearing things.

Now, I still think that I hear Burke and John's voice on the tape but I'm pretty susceptible to these sorts of things. There's even a test you
can take designed to see how susceptible you are to such absorption - The Tellegan Absorption test.

fact is no one can hear Burke on that tape or be 100% certain it is him speaking , a lot of people believe he did it and therefore they hear what they want to hear.

 

[TeaTime]

Fair - that is just not true. I heard his voice on the tape many, many years ago and long before I even imagined that he had any involvement with the crime. You can choose to disregard it but in my opinion it is vital evidence. What does it prove? It proves that BR was awake that morning despite the lies his parents told that he was asleep all morning and never awakened during the discovery of the RN or the arrival of friends and LE. This was at a time when it was not yet known that BR pretended to be asleep when his mother turned on the light and entered his room searching for JBR, when his dad entered to turn off the light and when the police officer searched his room with a flashlight.

Ask yourself why it was so important that BR be asleep so much so that the parents would lie about it?

All 3 voices can be heard, as stated by the 911 operator who had perhaps the best first hand perspective. You can choose to not believe her but I remind you that she has NO dog in this show. You can choose to disbelieve the enhanced recordings but clearly there are 3 distinct voices there.

Even if you dismiss the 911 enhanced recording, you still have BR by his own words admitting to being awake and playing with his micro machine while all hell broke loose in his house.

Not once did the parents ever state that they woke BR to ask him if he heard or saw anything. "He was asleep, he knows nothing" they said. One can only wonder how they could be so sure without ever having spoken to him about it. Well, they weren't sure, they lied. It is very simple. His voice on the 911 recording is only icing on the cake of deceit at this point.

 

[Ambitioned]

Fair - that is just not true. I heard his voice on the tape many, many years ago and long before I even imagined that he had any involvement with the crime. You can choose to disregard it but in my opinion it is vital evidence. What does it prove? It proves that BR was awake that morning despite the lies his parents told that he was asleep all morning and never awakened during the discovery of the RN or the arrival of friends and LE. This was at a time when it was not yet known that BR pretended to be asleep when his mother turned on the light and entered his room searching for JBR, when his dad entered to turn off the light and when the police officer searched his room with a flashlight.

Ask yourself why it was so important that BR be asleep so much so that the parents would lie about it?

All 3 voices can be heard, as stated by the 911 operator who had perhaps the best first hand perspective. You can choose to not believe her but I remind you that she has NO dog in this show. You can choose to disbelieve the enhanced recordings but clearly there are 3 distinct voices there.

Even if you dismiss the 911 enhanced recording, you still have BR by his own words admitting to being awake and playing with his micro machine while all hell broke loose in his house.

Not once did the parents ever state that they woke BR to ask him if he heard or saw anything. "He was asleep, he knows nothing" they said. One can only wonder how they could be so sure without ever having spoken to him about it. Well, they weren't sure, they lied. It is very simple. His voice on the 911 recording is only icing on the cake of deceit at this point.

Not once did they state they ran in to check him for injuries. I love how IDI write this off as, "Well you don't know their state of mind." I'm sorry but a parent WOULD check to make sure the other child(ren) are uninjured.

Btw my mom has the best hearing I've ever known. Its almost as good as a dog's. It always annoyed me because mine isn't that great. She'd hear the smallest thing in the middle of the night and I didn't. I would tell her to wear earplugs, for the love of all things holy. Anyway I played the tape for her but she had no idea what I was having her listen to. She heard Burke's voice as well.

 

[Heymom]

fact is no one can hear Burke on that tape or be 100% certain it is him speaking , a lot of people believe he did it and therefore they hear what they want to hear.

So we have another Ramsey apologist....

Sigh....

 

[Userid]

Not once did they state they ran in to check him for injuries. I love how IDI write this off as, "Well you don't know their state of mind." I'm sorry but a parent WOULD check to make sure the other child(ren) are uninjured.

Btw my mom has the best hearing I've ever known. Its almost as good as a dog's. It always annoyed me because mine isn't that great. She'd hear the smallest thing in the middle of the night and I didn't. I would tell her to wear earplugs, for the love of all things holy. Anyway I played the tape for her but she had no idea what I was having her listen to. She heard Burke's voice as well.

Completely agree -- the first thing you would do is rush into your son's bedroom and wake him up by barging in, checking him and asking him if he was okay/hurt in any way. There's no way a normal parent would just peek in -- being in such a frantic state -- and simply just assume your other child was perfectly alright without even checking/inspecting him. It's completely asinine to assume any loving/innocent parent would behave in this way. The kid has blankets on -- your daughter was just kidnapped -- how in the world do you know if he is okay without waking him up and/or taking the blankets off his body to make damn sure he is indeed okay, even if you can see his face?

Also, why wouldn't you wake up every single person (be it child or adult) in the house and ask them if they saw/heard anything at all during the night??? Your daughter is missing for Christ's sakes!

And how do you know if the "intruder" still isn't in the house -- or more specifically, how do you know he isn't in BR's bedroom hiding somewhere? Wouldn't you want to get him up and keep him in your presence to make sure he was safe, as opposed to just leaving him alone in his bedroom still sleeping and completely vulnerable? Or at very least, check the fricking bedroom -- under the bed, in the closet, etc -- which wasn't done; they just peeked in!

I'm sorry but it's just so frustrating.

 

[Heymom]

Completely agree -- the first thing you would do is rush into your son's bedroom and wake him up by barging in, checking him and asking him if he was okay/hurt in any way. There's no way a normal parent would just peek in -- being in such a frantic state -- and simply just assume your other child was perfectly alright without even checking/inspecting him. It's completely asinine to assume any loving/innocent parent would behave in this way. The kid has blankets on -- your daughter was just kidnapped -- how in the world do you know if he is okay without waking him up and/or taking the blankets off his body to make damn sure he is indeed okay, even if you can see his face?

Also, why wouldn't you wake up every single person (be it child or adult) in the house and ask them if they saw/heard anything at all during the night??? Your daughter is missing for Christ's sakes!

And how do you know if the "intruder" still isn't in the house -- or more specifically, how do you know he isn't in BR's bedroom hiding somewhere? Wouldn't you want to get him up and keep him in your presence to make sure he was safe, as opposed to just leaving him alone in his bedroom still sleeping and completely vulnerable? Or at very least, check the fricking bedroom -- under the bed, in the closet, etc -- which wasn't done; they just peeked in!

I'm sorry but it's just so frustrating.

Their behavior is completely antithetical to anything normal parents would have done in that situation - if it were real. We all know that we would IMMEDIATELY wake the child up and ask him/her if they had seen their sibling, heard anything, etc. and then HOLD YOUR BABIES CLOSE to make sure that they at least are safe. If the child had nothing to do with what happened, then the police would be able to question him/her on the spot and ask whatever they needed to ask. The child would NOT be whisked away off-premises and shielded behind a wall of lawyers. The behavior of the parents was thoroughly abnormal and highly suspicious.

 

[CoreyRocks]

Fair - that is just not true. I heard his voice on the tape many, many years ago and long before I even imagined that he had any involvement with the crime. You can choose to disregard it but in my opinion it is vital evidence. What does it prove? It proves that BR was awake that morning despite the lies his parents told that he was asleep all morning and never awakened during the discovery of the RN or the arrival of friends and LE. This was at a time when it was not yet known that BR pretended to be asleep when his mother turned on the light and entered his room searching for JBR, when his dad entered to turn off the light and when the police officer searched his room with a flashlight.

Ask yourself why it was so important that BR be asleep so much so that the parents would lie about it?

All 3 voices can be heard, as stated by the 911 operator who had perhaps the best first hand perspective. You can choose to not believe her but I remind you that she has NO dog in this show. You can choose to disbelieve the enhanced recordings but clearly there are 3 distinct voices there.

Even if you dismiss the 911 enhanced recording, you still have BR by his own words admitting to being awake and playing with his micro machine while all hell broke loose in his house.

Not once did the parents ever state that they woke BR to ask him if he heard or saw anything. "He was asleep, he knows nothing" they said. One can only wonder how they could be so sure without ever having spoken to him about it. Well, they weren't sure, they lied. It is very simple. His voice on the 911 recording is only icing on the cake of deceit at this point.

I agree he was awake and they spoke to him. There is no way imho that a 9.9 year old boy would just take his Nintendo and go to the White's without questioning .... where is JonBenet (well maybe he wouldn't ask this one) but he sure as heck would have asked about vacation ... Michigan and especially Disney.

 

[KarenM]

I can't hear any distinguishable words or specific voice.

 

[kanzz]

I choose to defer to the experts from Aerospace Corp, who said there were three voices heard on the 911 call tape: one adult female, one adult male, and one child. There was only one living child in the house that morning, ergo, logic says it must have been BR. They were also able to determine what words were spoken after PR stopped talking to the 911 operator.
This is what was reported: "After further analysis, they heard three distinct voices, then gave the enhanced recording to Det. Hickman. "Hickman heard John Ramsey say, "We're not speaking to you," in what sounded like a very angry voice," the source said. "Patsy then says, "Help me Jesus, help me Jesus," and finally Burke is clearly heard to say "Well what did you find?" with an emphasis on the word "did."

 

[PositiveLight]

So we have another Ramsey apologist....

Sigh....

Did Burke himself not admit in the GJ hearing that he heard his own voice? Correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[Heymom]

Did Burke himself not admit in the GJ hearing that he heard his own voice? Correct me if I'm wrong?

I wasn't aware that we have any of that information. What is the source for that?