Who Killed Jon Benet Ramsey? Poll

[TexasTuff]

Chief Kolar's book explains that there were several unsourced DNA samples left in incriminating places.

The DNA has been cussed and discussed here until the cows came home and went back. Lots of good info here easily found with the search function. No sense in repeating what is already available.

And how would one do a search on just DNA in this thread?

 

[TexasTuff]

Could this have contributed to Jon Benet's death?

http://bolesblogs.com/2006/08/18/pedophilia-and-child-beauty-pageant-perversion/

 

[BOESP]

And how would one do a search on just DNA in this thread?

I'd type in "DNA" (or whatever term interested me) in the "Search" box then hit my <ENTER> key.

I wouldn't search just this thread though. I'd search the entire JonBenet forum for topic headers with "DNA" in the topic. The "Search" function will guide you through doing this.

 

[TexasTuff]

The profiles found from the fingernail clippings of JonBenet were presumably not from the non-sterile nail clippers that the coroner was in the habit of using. (However, to the best of my knowledge, clippers are not used in medical autopsies, only in autopsies performed for legal reasons. I don’t know the reasons for those eight prior autopsies. Therefore, as an example, if the last time the clippers were actually used was 10 autopsies ago it would have missed by this screening process.)

WOW! If this is true, what a slopy job the coroner did!

 

[Fides]

How can you honestly fault someone for not being seasoned at being interviewed?

TexasTuff, it is not a question of being seasoned, it is a question of being genuine. If your young child was sexually assaulted and strangled in your home, and you had nothing to do with it and no knowledge of who did, the last word you would use to refer to the event is "accident." That word makes no sense, and if it somehow crossed your lips, you would stop and correct yourself, because it is such an impossible word for what you are saying happened. The word implies benign intent on the part of the intruder, and given the brutality of your child's death such an implication would not just bother you, it would horrify and enrage you.

So, it is not difficult for me to conclude from her words that Patsy allowed the notion of benign intent to exist in her mind unchallenged. To do so, given the extreme harm done to her child, the attacker must not be a stranger, he or she must be someone known to her, someone for whom she has developed a mind set that permits JonBenet's death to be the result of an "accident."

Thank you for your question.

 

[Anti-K]

You can deny it however the hell you'd like but when that DNA was found it didn't meet CODIS standards. That is fact. The sample was manipulated in order to meet the requirements. That is fact as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No one is denying anything, Andreww.

At the end of the day, the sample met CODIS standards, and was accepted by CODIS and is used by CODIS.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

That's what this article I found brought out and some other interesting points. It said that during the time the investigators were at the house on Christmas Day John and Patsy never showed any affection toward one another or tried to comfort each other. Patsy just set in a chair sobbing no more than 15 feet above where her dead child was.



They had quite an entourage.



Why would Ramsey decide his wife needed her own lawyers?












http://bardachreports.com/articles/v_19971000.html

“Detectives Harmer and Hickman interviewed [victim advocates] Jedamus and Morlock at police headquarters.
“The Ramseys probably didn’t know that their conversations with the advocates were not confidential or privileged by law. Jedamus and Morlock were obligated to tell the detectives everything they could remember, since they worked for - and were partly compensated by - the police department.”
<snip>
“Morlock remembered that John Ramsey had cried but tried to control his emotions even when he was so distraught that he could barely speak.
<snip>
Merlock “told the detectives that she had seen John and Patsy sitting together in the dining room holding each other and talking.” PMPT; p. 325
.

More in the same vein:
Fleet White told the police that when the Lafayette branch of John Fernie's bank opened, Fernie went there to see about collecting the ransom money from his own account. During this time Ramsey was distressed, White said; the pain he observed in John was unmistakable. He'd never seen Ramsey this way, at the end of his rope. "He just put his head in his hands and cried and shook. PMPT; p. 45
.

”I spoke with Patsy Ramsey for about one minute. Patsy was visibly shaken, distraught, and crying. She was curled up and sitting on a chair. I informed Patsy the Federal Bureau of Investigation was meeting with members of the Boulder Police Department and we would do everything possible to get her daughter back safely. I cannot remember exactly what Patsy said to me. She only said a couple words. She was too distraught to talk.” INJUSTICE; R. Whitson; p. 10
.

DIANE SAWYER: (voice-over) His name is Dr. Francesco Beuf. He was JonBenet's pediatrician. He talked to me by phone about whether Mrs. Ramsey's grief was real.
(From taped telephone conversation)

Dr. FRANCESCO BEUF: Oh, for God's sake, she was as devastated as anyone could be by a terrible loss like that. They called me to provide some tranquilizers for her. She was absolutely shattered by this.
DIANE SAWYER: And Mr. Ramsey?

Dr. FRANCESCO BEUF: He looked absolutely devastated. To me, they were the most appropriate reactions in the world. God knows, I wouldn't know how I'd react if one of my children had been murdered, particularly in such horrible circumstances. He paced and paced and paced. He and I went out for a walk for a while that night. It's the wreckage of two human beings. ABC PRIMETIME LIVE (10:00 pm ET) SEPTEMBER 10, 1997 Transcript # 97091003-j08 T
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

I just watched that a few minutes ago on youtube and boy it sure looks phony to me.

This is a real problem. It looks phoney to you. It looks phoney to someone else. But, to other people it looks sincere. Who is right? Who is wrong? How can we tell?

It’s subjective, this “looks like” thing. It isn’t evidence; and you (we) could be mistaken.

But, let’s say that there is something “off” about her in this footage. What are the possible explanations for that? Guilt is one (but, guilt could mean nothing more than feeling responsible in some way, as I think many of us would in a similar situation), but guilt is not the only explanation.

When it comes to human behavior and action we all seem to see the same things in our own separate ways. That’s what makes this aspect of the discussion interesting; but, as far as hints or indicators of guilt? Nope.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

TexasTuff, if Patsy had been interested in advancing the investigation she wouldn't have waited four months to permit herself to be interviewed. Never, ever, have I heard of an innocent parent who didn't immediately cooperate with the investigation and do what they asked for in the way of statements or assistance.

Who waits four long months before letting LE know what information they may have that would advance the investigation?

Four months until formal interviews.

But, there is something misleading about this. Four months until formal interviews often comes out sounding as if the Ramsey had not talked to and been questioned by the police, at all. It sounds as if investigators had nothing to investigate. It sounds as if responsibility for this was not shared between the Ramseys and BPD.

It also ignores the core issue in this regard: the Ramseys did not trust BPD or believe that there was anything that they could do to get BPD to change their minds about their guilt. Plus – not saying it’s a good thing – MONEY (cue Cyndi Lauper).

What I’m trying to say is that this is more complex than just a lack of cooperation.
But, if you want to say that it made them look guilty then at least we’d agree on one thing. That’s not bad.
...

AK

 

[BOESP]

The emotions were appropriate but that doesn't preclude innocence. The reasons for those emotions can never be known except by the person carrying them.

 

[Anti-K]

Heyya Fides,

also the verb tenses are disjointed within her proclamations

Woah!!! Maybe she is guilty! Hola!
j/k

...

AK

 

[BOESP]

Four months until formal interviews.

But, there is something misleading about this. Four months until formal interviews often comes out sounding as if the Ramsey had not talked to and been questioned by the police, at all. It sounds as if investigators had nothing to investigate. It sounds as if responsibility for this was not shared between the Ramseys and BPD.

It also ignores the core issue in this regard: the Ramseys did not trust BPD or believe that there was anything that they could do to get BPD to change their minds about their guilt. Plus &#8211; not saying it&#8217;s a good thing &#8211; MONEY (cue Cyndi Lauper).

What I&#8217;m trying to say is that this is more complex than just a lack of cooperation.
But, if you want to say that it made them look guilty then at least we&#8217;d agree on one thing. That&#8217;s not bad.
...

AK

With all due respect, your post sounds like you are apologizing for the Ramseys not wanting the Boulder Police Department to do their jobs.

They did not act like innocent parents in my book based on what I saw out of them during their television appearances, reading their transcripts, and my reading of their book, Death of Innocence.

It didn't behoove the investigation for the Ramseys to offer blood, hair, fingerprints and DNA samples on a crime committed in their own home. IDI have said for years that "They lived there. Those samples are innocently found everywhere." Or words to that effect.

We can agree to disagree.

ETA: Forgot to mention -- a grand jury handed down a true bill asking for an indictment; that meant they heard enough evidence that persuaded them to believe the Ramseys should be taken to trial for child abuse resulting in death (short version).

 

[justonedrin]

tongue in cheek---because thats what her husband wanted her to do

 

[Fides]

“Detectives Harmer and Hickman interviewed [victim advocates] Jedamus and Morlock at police headquarters.
“The Ramseys probably didn’t know that their conversations with the advocates were not confidential or privileged by law. Jedamus and Morlock were obligated to tell the detectives everything they could remember, since they worked for - and were partly compensated by - the police department.”
<snip>
“Morlock remembered that John Ramsey had cried but tried to control his emotions even when he was so distraught that he could barely speak.
<snip>
Merlock “told the detectives that she had seen John and Patsy sitting together in the dining room holding each other and talking.” PMPT; p. 325
.

More in the same vein:
Fleet White told the police that when the Lafayette branch of John Fernie's bank opened, Fernie went there to see about collecting the ransom money from his own account. During this time Ramsey was distressed, White said; the pain he observed in John was unmistakable. He'd never seen Ramsey this way, at the end of his rope. "He just put his head in his hands and cried and shook. PMPT; p. 45
.

”I spoke with Patsy Ramsey for about one minute. Patsy was visibly shaken, distraught, and crying. She was curled up and sitting on a chair. I informed Patsy the Federal Bureau of Investigation was meeting with members of the Boulder Police Department and we would do everything possible to get her daughter back safely. I cannot remember exactly what Patsy said to me. She only said a couple words. She was too distraught to talk.” INJUSTICE; R. Whitson; p. 10
.

DIANE SAWYER: (voice-over) His name is Dr. Francesco Beuf. He was JonBenet's pediatrician. He talked to me by phone about whether Mrs. Ramsey's grief was real.
(From taped telephone conversation)

Dr. FRANCESCO BEUF: Oh, for God's sake, she was as devastated as anyone could be by a terrible loss like that. They called me to provide some tranquilizers for her. She was absolutely shattered by this.
DIANE SAWYER: And Mr. Ramsey?

Dr. FRANCESCO BEUF: He looked absolutely devastated. To me, they were the most appropriate reactions in the world. God knows, I wouldn't know how I'd react if one of my children had been murdered, particularly in such horrible circumstances. He paced and paced and paced. He and I went out for a walk for a while that night. It's the wreckage of two human beings. ABC PRIMETIME LIVE (10:00 pm ET) SEPTEMBER 10, 1997 Transcript # 97091003-j08 T
...

AK

Thank-you Anti-K for this post. The reported behavior and emotions of the Ramseys in the immediate aftermath are poignant and seem very real. They fit, for me, with the double devastation of the death of their daughter and the culpability of their son.

 

[Tadpole12]

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/how-jonbenet-ramseys-dad-protected-his-son-from-214011512.html

How Jonbenet Ramsey's Dad Protected His Son From Murder Accusations

Rachel Bertsche
November 03. 2015

"In this Monday night’s interview on Barbara Walters Presents American Scandals, John says he and Patsy tried to keep Burke from learning that tabloids were accusing him of the violent crime. “We tried to shield him from that,” John said. “Friends would ask us, ‘What can we do to help?’ We said, ‘Next time you go in the supermarket, call the manager over when you see our child’s photo on the front cover, and ask him to remove it.’ A lot of them did that.”

But in a 2008 interview with the Daily Beast, John says his son did see at least one paper while he was at the supermarket with his mother. “The headlines from a tabloid screamed out that Burke had done it,” John told the website. “She dropped her produce and rushed Burke out, but the damage had been done.”

In that interview, John admitted that he and Patsy were especially protective of Burke after their family tragedy. “We worried. We didn’t know who was out there. Someone had killed our daughter. All we wanted to do was protect Burke and give him a normal childhood,” he said. “I don’t let anybody I don’t know get near him. If anything happened to him, I wouldn’t survive it.”

 

[Tadpole12]

BR, from yahoo article

https://www.google.ca/search?hl=en-...vlnfCPyQIVAXwmCh00Ew8e&biw=1600&bih=613&dpr=1

 

[Tadpole12]

[video=twitter;661369682964951040]https://twitter.com/ryansmithtv/status/661369682964951040[/video]

Twitter, Ryan Smith
Correspondent for ABC News. Legal Analyst for ABC and ESPN

 

[InstantProof]

I'm confused. Hasn't that already aired? With no interview with Burke?

 

[InstantProof]

Patsy Ramsey: "If she got up in the night and ran into somebody, it was somebody there that wasn't supposed to be there. I don't know what transpired after that, whether it was an accident, intentional, premeditated, or whatnot. But it was not one of her three family members that were also in that house."

Patsy slips constantly, she can't help herself. There was a stranger hiding in her home who sexually assaulted and brutally murdered her daughter and she is not sure if what transpired was an "accident?" Or "whatnot?" There is not any part of this answer that rings true.

Is there any more of this interview available? I remember coming across a clip where they tell her they think she did it and she says she didn't do it and she isn't covering for someone who did.

 

[Tadpole12]

I'm confused. Hasn't that already aired? With no interview with Burke?

Heyya InstantProof,

Yes, already aired/ With no interview with Burke.
Just watched BW's AS and it was just a 6 second clip of footage of BR, in profile,
garbed in a blue and white stripped nautical v neck tee and dark sun glasses, sailing......