"Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?"

[Nedthan Johns]

Bluecrab: smashed so hard over the head with a heavy object that it split her skull in two, and then strangled again so severely that the cord ligature imbedded deeply into her neck.

Ned: She wasn't strangled severely. Her hybrid bone wasn't broken and the swelling post mortum makes the rope appear embedded in her neck more than it actually was.

 

[Nedthan Johns]

Shylock: I've often wondered if she wasn't struck on the head at all, but thrown off the second floor landing near the staircase and landed on her head. There was a case a couple years ago where an 8-year old boy killed a 4-year old girl by using a wrestling hold on her that he saw on TV, watching

Ned: There is nothing to indicate this. If this had happened, most certainly she would have brusing or even broken bone. If you look at the actual skull fracture, pic at the double B you will see that the displaced piece of bone in the front of the skull indicates exactly where she was hit. Blunt object. Direct to the skull, causing an 81/2 inch fracture. Someone was pissed off at this little girl. Someone struck her with enough force to befallen a 300 lb man. But remember a child's skull is still softer than an adults. A swift strike, I think even by Burke with an alumunim bat could accomplish this. I used to think this wasn't possible until I did a little research. It always made me think why John Ramsey claimed he didn't know where the bat came from found in his yard. Was this a cover up or a ruse for Patsy? Why wasn't this picture shown to Burke Ramsey? The neighbor kids or Linda Hoffman Pugh? She more than anyone whould know if that bat belonged to Burke Ramsey or not.

I believe there are only 3 possible murder weapons, the flashlight, baseball bat or golf club. But only ONE was wipped down of all prints that we know of. WHY? Both the Ramsey's also claimed that even though they owned a flash light just like it, they had no idea of what happened to theirs. I would bet money on it again that LHP holds the key to this question. Where did the Ramsey's keep that flashlight. My bet is right next to their bedside. It's always been the number one choice for me, with the bat being close second.

 

[Nedthan Johns]

Bluecrab: I'm aware of what religious extremism can do, and your Islam example is an appropriate analogy -- but with Islamic extremists the hate has often been beat into people from birth. That's all they can think of. Patsy did not show any previous extreme behaviors

Ned: How do we know about any extreme behaviors prior to the crime? We don't. Even LHP may not have noted them or was not trained as a psycologist would be in detecting them. Certainly we all have viewed Patsy's pyscosis, it's very apparent and well written out in DOI. I personally think BrotherMoon is on to something here, and his/her thoughts directly tie in the thoughts and words used in the ransom note. I would like to know BM why and when you think John entered this crime, and why you believe he still covers for his wife?

 

[BlueCrab]

Bluecrab: Although I love your theory and always enjoy reading your posts, IMO there is NO way a 9 year old kid penned that note. Our daughter is 9 almost 10 now and she has wonderful penmenship, but for the life of me I have never seen her able to sit and write 2 1/2 pages of anything. The most would be a page, and her words run together as she gets tired. The lines are not straight. Many words, although she is one of the best spellers in her class would be mispelled. Easy words that she forgets have letters in them like Wile, forgetting the h. Most girls write neater then boys. There is NO way Burke Ramsey wrote that note, with or without help. Kids in general try to write neat. This letter was written by someone with their left hand on purpose to disguise their handwritting. It was written by a woman. It's very clear and I believe it cannot be disputed that Patsy Ramsey wrote that note.
This has always been one piece of evidence that stands on it's own and is very clear about "who" wrote it. I think anyone with a 9 year old boy should get him to sit down and dictate the ransom note. I would bet they either complain and don't want to finish it or have a hard time spelling 90% of the words in it, and I can almost be certain a 9 year old has never even heard of an attache. Much less know there is a ' in it.

Ned, I respectfully disagree. The lettering in the ransom note matches the lettering in the captions in Burke's photo album. IMO Burke wrote the captions, and therefore likely wrote the RN. Burke's and Patsy's handwriting look the same because it was Patsy who taught him how to write. The authorities won't release the results of Burke's handwriting examination, nor even comment about it. Why?

JMO

 

[Nedthan Johns]

I still think the Burke theory is possible, not all of it, but he certainly seemed capable of inflicting the blow to the skull. It's just my opinion that the wording in the ransom note is beyond that of a 9 year old's capability and to think there was a 5th person in the house that night, well then I would have to entertain the thought that there could have been an intruder. There is just NO evidence of either. The only reason I still would consider Burke in this sceanario is because I haven't yet found a strong source for John Ramsey to help cover this crime, if not for Burke, then the molestation factor plays a strong key in this for me, I cannot imagine a man in Johns situation covering for a psycotic wife... but who knows

 

[BlueCrab]

Ned, I just gotta comment about your repeated stun gun sign-off signature. Most stun guns have two little steel prongs that measure about 1/8" to 3/16" in diameter, some square, some rectangular, and some rounded. They are spaced anywhere from one inch to two inches apart. If these steel prongs were forcefully jammed into your skin, even without pulling the trigger, don't you think it could inflict abrasions? I think so.

JMO

 

[Shylock]

Someone struck her with enough force to befallen a 300 lb man. But remember a child's skull is still softer than an adults. A swift strike, I think even by Burke with an alumunim bat could accomplish this. I used to think this wasn't possible until I did a little research. It always made me think why John Ramsey claimed he didn't know where the bat came from found in his yard. Was this a cover up or a ruse for Patsy? Why wasn't this picture shown to Burke Ramsey? The neighbor kids or Linda Hoffman Pugh? She more than anyone whould know if that bat belonged to Burke Ramsey or not.

Ned, I'm glad you finally realized that Burke is a VERY valid suspect. And yes, the vast majority of boys about to turn 10 years old can easily swing a baseball bat hard and fast enough to crack the skull on a 6 year old. The "300 pound man" statement is nothing more than Ramsey propaganda which JR likes to spew when people ask about Burke. A 300 pound man can be fallen by another 300 pound man wearing heavily padded gloves in a boxing match--so what does that statement supposedly prove...

Burke had the ability and opportunity to cause that head wound.


IMO/JMO

 

[Shylock]

If these steel prongs were forcefully jammed into your skin, even without pulling the trigger, don't you think it could inflict abrasions?

Not really. Information was leaked a few years ago that the BPD has evidence which disproves the stungun theory. I believe that evidence is either blood on the inside of her shirt (stunguns don't cause people to bleed), or her blood/skin on the end of the paintbrush stick. If you check the length of the garrote cord and the location of the marks on her back you'll find they match. The marks could have been caused by the end of the paintbrush stick as it was jerked downward to tighten the cord/noose around her neck.

And by the way BlueCrab, people have been jabbing themselves with objects for 7 years now - with everything from potholder looms (Ruthee's theory), to Lego blocks, to meat forks and jewelry. While quite a few of the objects caused indentations that look identicle, none of them caused "abrasions". Note also that even Smit couldn't cause "abrasions" on his piggy--only little pink marks.

IMO

 

[BlueCrab]

Note also that even Smit couldn't cause "abrasions" on his piggy--only little pink marks.IMO

Shylock,

They used to make footballs out of pig skin. A pig's skin must be a hundred times tougher than JonBenet's skin.

Also, a human would not voluntarily let someone shock them with a stun gun -- they'd squirm and defend themselves. Thus, most stun gun hits are forced on the victim, leave irregular shaped marks and, perhaps like JonBenet's, might leave abrasions due to the violence of the act.

JMO

 

[Britt]

If these steel prongs were forcefully jammed into your skin, even without pulling the trigger, don't you think it could inflict abrasions?

??? Is that how a stun gun works?

 

[BrotherMoon]

Ned, I think John had nothing to do with any of it. Patsy screamed, handed him the note and invovled him from that point, He made a bad decision when he found the body at 11 a.m., another when he went back to get it at 1 p.m. He's been protecting his house of cards ever since.

I also think the note was written before the killing. The reason for that is the pineapple. I say the perp is not Patsy as we know her but a split-off persona complex in the manner described by disociative identity disorder. That complex periodically interupted the major complex in the months before the killing. It surfaced when the pineapple was fed to JonBenet as per my signature below. It took control through the writing of the notes (plural, the missing pages). The note can be read as veiled directions to a God for it's part in a resurrection. The daughter is not JonBenet but the major persona complex in Patsy that had been usurped. She is to be returned (delivered) when the meaning of Psalms 118 is given to the perp. Psalms 118 is about thanksgiving by sacrifice for delivery from death. Something Patsy had remarked on well before 12-25-'96. The conflict Patsy has is about self sacrifice v.s. object sacrifice. A common theme in world mythology and psychopathology.

Yes Patsy used her religion to suit her purposes. But the process was under way years before the famous event.

 

[BlueCrab]

??? Is that how a stun gun works?

Britt,

A stun gun works by touching the business end of the gun (the two steel prongs) against the victim and pulling the trigger.

If the person would voluntarily stay still, the gun wouldn't have to be forced aggressively against him just to try to make contact before pulling the trigger. But in the real world the victim is going to be fighting back, making it hard to make good contact. Thus the irregular shaped stun gun burn marks on the victim's skin, and perhaps even abrasions.

JMO

 

[Maxi]

Shylock,

They used to make footballs out of pig skin. A pig's skin must be a hundred times tougher than JonBenet's skin.

Also, a human would not voluntarily let someone shock them with a stun gun -- they'd squirm and defend themselves. Thus, most stun gun hits are forced on the victim, leave irregular shaped marks and, perhaps like JonBenet's, might leave abrasions due to the violence of the act.

JMO

My daughter's doofus boyfriend let his friend stun gun him a couple of times. Or maybe he did it to himself. I can't remember. He said the marks looked like mosquito bites or little burns. The did not look like abrasions.

I wonder if we could get him to do it again, and take pics. He'll do most anything for my daughter. I will ask.

 

[Shylock]

My daughter's doofus boyfriend let his friend stun gun him a couple of times. I wonder if we could get him to do it again, and take pics. He'll do most anything for my daughter. I will ask.

Careful Maxi... There was some sicko over on the swamp years ago who stungunned her retarded daughter and caught hell for it. (And from what you say your daughter's boyfriend might also fit into "retarded" catagory...LOL)

IMO

 

[Ivy]

LOL, Maxi. Seriously, if he agrees to be stunned again, please take pictures of the wounds and post links to them, okay?

Shylock, I had forgotten about the poster who zapped her daughter with the stun gun. Freaky!

 

[BlueCrab]

There likely won't be any burn marks if you stun gun yourself. You'll be able to hold the gun against yourself, with the trigger pulled, for only about one second maximum. You will involuntarily jerk the gun away from yourself.

It takes about a two or three-second hit at the minimum to leave the signature burn marks. (For the Air Taser, two little rectangular marks about 1 3/8 inches apart.) The longer the gun is held against the skin with the trigger pulled the more severe is the burn.

JMO

 

[Blazeboy3]

Not really. Information was leaked a few years ago that the BPD has evidence which disproves the stungun theory. I believe that evidence is either blood on the inside of her shirt (stunguns don't cause people to bleed), or her blood/skin on the end of the paintbrush stick. If you check the length of the garrote cord and the location of the marks on her back you'll find they match. The marks could have been caused by the end of the paintbrush stick as it was jerked downward to tighten the cord/noose around her neck.

And by the way BlueCrab, people have been jabbing themselves with objects for 7 years now - with everything from potholder looms (Ruthee's theory), to Lego blocks, to meat forks and jewelry. While quite a few of the objects caused indentations that look identicle, none of them caused "abrasions". Note also that even Smit couldn't cause "abrasions" on his piggy--only little pink marks.
IMO

Shylock...FWIW...I AGREE (?!?):doh:

 

[Toth]

There is a difference between an item that is an abrasion and an item that is misdescribed as an abrasion.

 

[Blazeboy3]

TOTHo you know who killed JonBenet?
Ok, Yes/No?

 

[Blazeboy3]

Yes, strangulation first rules out accident.

Head blow second rules in ritual.

Blazeboy3, I mean JonBenet's death does not revolve around sexual abuse as so many of the lay detectives think.

Patsy did the deed but she was using JonBenet before the famous deed in ways that had nothing to do with sex and she continues to use her in ways that have nothing to do with sex.

The Psalms are refered to over and over by Patsy before the event, after in DOI and in the ransom note. Patsy repeatedly ties the angel theme to JonBenet, again before, after and during the event. Patsy's ruminations on God are projected on to JonBenet.

The blow to the head, the initial strangulation, the final position of the garrote, the raising of the arms, the implied posing of the body and the duct tape point to obsessional thinking about corporeal issues in the upper region. And the large panties refer to lower body issues.

The nature of this crime points to a wide spectrum of psychological and physical concerns in the perp, not just sex.

Ok, I'm w/you...on the same page same chapter...I agree but what was the "GOAL" in Patsy's MIND (chapter/page)?? :blowkiss: :blowkiss: ?