Who molested/abused Jonbenet?

[eileenhawkeye]

The Ramseys have made a lot of media appearances but they were pretty spread out. I definitely think they liked attention, but I think they knew that being in the media constantly is not good PR for them. After all, their whole thing is that the media convicted them of killing JonBenet. It wouldn't work if they were giving daily interviews.

For example, they did the CNN interview on January 1. Their next appearance was on May 1 for a press conference. They didn't do any other interviews until July 1998 when they talked for one of Tracey's documentaries. Their next interview was late November 1999 to start promoting their book (of which they did quite a few).

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

The Ramseys have made a lot of media appearances but they were pretty spread out. I definitely think they liked attention, but I think they were knew that being in the media constantly is not good PR for them. After all, their whole thing is that the media convicted them of killing JonBenet. It wouldn't work if they were giving daily interviews.

For example, they did the CNN interview on January 1. Their next appearance was on May 1 for a press conference. They didn't do any other interviews until July 1998 when they talked for one of Tracey's documentaries. Their next interview was late November 1999 to start promoting their book (of which they did quite a few).

It's improper the way you continually post as if they're facts.
You are welcome to your opinions...just state that that's what they are.

 

[Linda7NJ]

"I think" is perfectly acceptable, As is, "I feel", etc....

 

[questfortrue]

people divest themselves of assets for various reasons: debt, tax liability, lawsuit, judgment/settlement, etc

what was going on circa 2000?

Yes, imagine the sale was done for retention of money, whether taxes, debt, etc. As to why specifically the Rs took this step, anyone’s guess. (BTW, Georgia is a common law state, if your name appears on the ownership document, registration or title, you own it. However, common law holds that your spouse has legal right to claim a fair and equitable portion of your property in divorce.)

Year 2000 DOI is published.
Dec. 2000 JR quitclaims property to PR.
Feb. 2001 PR petitions the court to be guardian of BR's Trust Fund money from lawsuits won.

 

[gramcracker]

right after JB's body was discovered BPD reserved a number of rooms at a local hotel and planned to move the family there, for the purposes of providing housing and for questioning them separately in relatively pleasant surroundings (as opposed to BPD headquarters which is where a Mr/Mrs Joe Schmoe would have been interviewed, PDQ)

PR immediately withdrew from any interaction, leaving JR to provide a buffer between his wife and LEOs. which he did. he refused to go to the hotel and would not commit to any time/place for meeting with BPD; he begged off with vague promises of "later" as they were leaving their home/the crime scene to stay with friends

that evening PR couldn't answer any questions because she was conveniently wacked out on meds provided by their friend/their fellow church member/their children's pediatrician, and JR rambled to the point of being useless

the next evening was basically the same: PR still wacked out/not talking; JR answered a few questions in the presence of others, including his business atty/friend who was engaged as his initial atty right after BPD left the house (this hiring occurred after a 30-minute private outdoor conference between JR/the doctor providing the meds for PR/and the friend at whose home they were staying)

by very early the next morning the first incarnation of what became the defense team stepped in as a buffer to avoid direct contact with LEOs, with the approval of the DA. any/all questions were now to be submitted only via the DA's office

the day after the funeral they appeared on CNN, still never having been interviewed by LEOs. their ongoing (and intentional) lack of availability was being reported by every news outlet in Boulder and many others nationwide

so it is well beyond disingenuous to say that they have always had to start out from the position of "we didn’t do it.” they are the type who kill their parents and then plead for mercy because they are orphans. boo freakin' hoo. I am so bored with hearing some version of they-were-defensive-because-they-were-persecuted; no, they were defensive because they "did it." they were responsible for A -B -C -D and then whined about ending up at -E. they could not believe that the world wasn't falling at their feet to worship them and their situation. rude awakenings are like that, LOL

pretty is as pretty does, and IMO they were damn ugly


*sorry for reiterating the history but we get new readers all the time

 

[questfortrue]

The Ramseys have made a lot of media appearances but they were pretty spread out. I definitely think they liked attention, but I think they knew that being in the media constantly is not good PR for them. After all, their whole thing is that the media convicted them of killing JonBenet. It wouldn't work if they were giving daily interviews.

For example, they did the CNN interview on January 1. Their next appearance was on May 1 for a press conference. They didn't do any other interviews until July 1998 when they talked for one of Tracey's documentaries. Their next interview was late November 1999 to start promoting their book (of which they did quite a few).

Thanks, Eileen. Maybe there's a catalog of this somewhere on the forum, but if I may add a little from the top of my head -
PR and JR - Two appearances on LKL
PR and JR - One interview with Barbara Walter
PR and JR - Appearance on the Today show with Katie Couric
PR and JR - Several appearances with Christian broadcast channels
JR – One appearance with Anderson Cooper
JR – appearance on The View after new marriage

 

[Anti-K]

right after JB's body was discovered BPD reserved a number of rooms at a local hotel and planned to move the family there, for the purposes of providing housing and for questioning them separately in relatively pleasant surroundings (as opposed to BPD headquarters which is where a Mr/Mrs Joe Schmoe would have been interviewed, PDQ)

PR immediately withdrew from any interaction, leaving JR to provide a buffer between his wife and LEOs. which he did. he refused to go to the hotel and would not commit to any time/place for meeting with BPD; he begged off with vague promises of "later" as they were leaving their home/the crime scene to stay with friends

that evening PR couldn't answer any questions because she was conveniently wacked out on meds provided by their friend/their fellow church member/their children's pediatrician, and JR rambled to the point of being useless

the next evening was basically the same: PR still wacked out/not talking; JR answered a few questions in the presence of others, including his business atty/friend who was engaged as his initial atty right after BPD left the house (this hiring occurred after a 30-minute private outdoor conference between JR/the doctor providing the meds for PR/and the friend at whose home they were staying)

by very early the next morning the first incarnation of what became the defense team stepped in as a buffer to avoid direct contact with LEOs, with the approval of the DA. any/all questions were now to be submitted only via the DA's office

the day after the funeral they appeared on CNN, still never having been interviewed by LEOs. their ongoing (and intentional) lack of availability was being reported by every news outlet in Boulder and many others nationwide

so it is well beyond disingenuous to say that they have always had to start out from the position of "we didn’t do it.” they are the type who kill their parents and then plead for mercy because they are orphans. boo freakin' hoo. I am so bored with hearing some version of they-were-defensive-because-they-were-persecuted; no, they were defensive because they "did it." they were responsible for A -B -C -D and then whined about ending up at -E. they could not believe that the world wasn't falling at their feet to worship them and their situation. rude awakenings are like that, LOL

pretty is as pretty does, and IMO they were damn ugly


*sorry for reiterating the history but we get new readers all the time

When I say that they always had to start out from that position of “we didn’t do it,” I am referring to what they had to bring with them to each media appearance.

Even if they were guilty – and, you know we disagree on that – they weren’t appearing as guilty persons, they were appearing as innocent persons who happened to be carrying the additional burden of being considered guilty. But, as I said, guilt persons generally avoid media appearances of this sort and number.
...

AK

 

[gramcracker]

they "happened" to be carrying an additional burden?

the majority of the public perceives them as uncooperative guilty people hiding secrets, which was/is a burden they created. crimes involving children are even uglier, if that's possible, when accountability and honesty and cooperation are lacking. it didn't just "happen"

 

[Anti-K]

Ah, but I didn’t say that it just “happened.” I didn’t say anything about how it happened (but, I’ve many times said that I think that the Ramseys were often their own worst enemy!).

Lay the blame for public distrust and suspicion wherever you like, but guilty or innocent, that distrust and suspicion put the Ramseys in a position not shared by persons the public perceived as being innocent (and hence, victims themselves).

IMO, and, I think some of this has been substantiated, BPD used the media to pressure the Ramseys and thereby influenced the public (and, the media) perception of the Ramseys and their possible involvement in their daughter’s murder.

The Ramsey’s behavior, as seen through the eyes of media (the only way we’ve seen it), added to the suspicion created by media reportage. It added to the suspicions held by BPD. Regardless of whether or not those suspicions were justified those suspicions colored every media appearance they made in a way that media appearances by others (Klass, obvious example) were not. This is true even if RDI is true, and it is true even if IDI is true.
...

AK

 

[questfortrue]

I’d agree with garden-variety criminals avoiding the media. But there’s something intrinsically different in this case, beyond the extra burden of media exposure, imo.

For one, the Rs caught some breaks early on. LE was told initially by a BPD commander to treat the Rs like “victims”, not suspects. Being sure of herself, PR called AH in late spring of ’97, to thank him for his efforts to find the killer. JR did the same thing in late spring of ’98, before a GJ was established. JR wrote a letter to AH and communicated he had friends who were going to help raise $1 million reward to find the killer. Didn’t happen. (Don’t know that I’ve ever heard of suspects calling a DA directly, but perhaps others know of that kind of direct connection into a DA’s office.)

PR, with a highly developed sense of drama and image, understood the importance of creating and sustaining their “victim” appearance to the world. Guess JR caught on pretty quickly, too. moo

While the Rs may appear to some as absolutely sincere and resolute in their media appearances (if one doesn’t study their facial gestures and disconcerting speech characteristics too closely), their weak/ non-existent follow-through after establishing their children’s foundations to honor JB says volumes about their lack of commitment to finding the killer.

They committed money from their book sales towards their foundation. Not one cent made it into their foundation. Promises toward another R entity SHOES, which would provide grants and resources for tracking pedophiles – never happened. There’s more and the info can be reviewed at ACR. http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenet-foundations.htm

IIRC, and according to Kolar, because of their move to GA, 5 additional years were added to the statute of limitations for charges. That took the time period for charges to 2004. Imo, the Rs efforts seem more about convincing the world of their victim status. Image creation. Good tactic for two compelling reasons - so that they could retain their reputation and very important image or . . . in case “some fool” ever did decide to levy charges.
mho

 

[gramcracker]

^^^ :clap:

 

[THE BUNK]

I’d agree with garden-variety criminals avoiding the media

In particular, an experienced criminal would avoid media. One that has paper on him and knows that another crime can be linked to him.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

There are plenty of killers (in the views of many) who do not avoid the media/spotlight:
The Ramseys
Casey Anthony
The McCanns
Amanda Knox
Joran Van Der Sloot
George Zimmerman

 

[questfortrue]

Initially wondered what PR would say about being catalogued right above Casey Anthony in a list denoting "suspects" who don’t mind speaking out. Except I remembered something from “Doc” Miller.

Excerpts from Prostitution of Justice by Thomas C. “Doc” Miller -

BBM
The cameras roll with Patsy crying, or preparing to cry, on the late night news. Years after the murder, we hear that John Ramsey was locked in a bathroom of his new mansion in Atlanta by a mysterious intruder posing as a workman. This makes the national headlines. "Good press, bad press, any press," Patsy Ramsey often said. Yes, any press. John Ramsey seems prone to intrusion, and Patsy Ramsey seemed as though she invited it.

~RSBM~

But then the Rs' willingness to shut down other press intrusions. . .

Interestingly, as came to light through the persistence of the New York Post in its slow capitulation to a Ramsey lawsuit over Burke's possible involvement in the death of JonBenet, lawyers for the Ramseys and the District Attorney's office had evidence regarding Burke that neither side wanted the press to examine.

moo

 

[lawstudent]

There are plenty of killers (in the views of many) who do not avoid the media/spotlight:
The Ramseys
Casey Anthony
The McCanns
Amanda Knox
Joran Van Der Sloot
George Zimmerman

People for whom criminal behavior is a normal part of life and aren't overly concerned about appearing virtuous avoid the media, generally. They know from experience nothing good comes of attention from authorities and running their mouths. I think the ones you named show that the opposite can be true for people who had previously been relatively respected and who know what they did is really bad and probably not well-thought-out. They are used to being able to explain their way out of things or at least have people stop inquiring about something. They're struggling for justification. Even if the accusations are false, if there's something else they are trying to hide, they will do anything to avoid breaking the facade, constantly talking and trying to explain everything away, even though it just causes problems with inconsistency. Not saying everyone you named is definitely guilty, but there are definitely different 'types' of criminals who behave in different ways.

 

[bettybaby00]

Initially wondered what PR would say about being catalogued right above Casey Anthony in a list denoting "suspects" who don’t mind speaking out. Except I remembered something from “Doc” Miller.

Excerpts from Prostitution of Justice by Thomas C. “Doc” Miller -

BBM
The cameras roll with Patsy crying, or preparing to cry, on the late night news. Years after the murder, we hear that John Ramsey was locked in a bathroom of his new mansion in Atlanta by a mysterious intruder posing as a workman. This makes the national headlines. "Good press, bad press, any press," Patsy Ramsey often said. Yes, any press. John Ramsey seems prone to intrusion, and Patsy Ramsey seemed as though she invited it.

~RSBM~

But then the Rs' willingness to shut down other press intrusions. . .

Interestingly, as came to light through the persistence of the New York Post in its slow capitulation to a Ramsey lawsuit over Burke's possible involvement in the death of JonBenet, lawyers for the Ramseys and the District Attorney's office had evidence regarding Burke that neither side wanted the press to examine.

moo

So wish this was available.

As a side note, I was watching 'criminal minds' the other night, and they made reference to, "they don't like us much in Boulder, not since the Ramsey case."

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The JonBenét case was mentioned in Children of the Dark, when the BAU investigated a series of fatal home invasions in Denver, Colorado. During the briefing, Hotch says that it was hard for the investigators to ask the FBI for assistance since a couple of agents publicly criticized the local police, which "took on a life of its own" when the piece was published statewide.

http://criminalminds.wikia.com/wiki/JonBenét_Ramsey

 

[DeeDee249]

http://criminalminds.wikia.com/wiki/JonBenét_Ramsey

Of course, the FBI knew right away the parents were involved somehow. I think any criticism of local police by the FBI was warranted- they saw mistakes and mishandling right from the beginning. I also think the police higher-ups did not want any outside help. They refused help from Denver's larger police force when it was offered too. Once it became know it was a murder and not a kidnapping, the FBI's CASKU unit had no jurisdiction anyway, but the local police could still have asked for their help.

 

[midwest mama]

Of course, the FBI knew right away the parents were involved somehow. I think any criticism of local police by the FBI was warranted- they saw mistakes and mishandling right from the beginning. I also think the police higher-ups did not want any outside help. They refused help from Denver's larger police force when it was offered too. Once it became know it was a murder and not a kidnapping, the FBI's CASKU unit had no jurisdiction anyway, but the local police could still have asked for their help.

Why is it that the Boulder police do not want to even consider a fresh option for this case? Testa even made it a point to say the case would not go anywhere. This would be a great opportunity for a fresh chief to made a stellar impact on his career, especially since Testa just plans to hold this position until he can retire. What a legacy he could leave for himself.

The news of the GJ true bills should be reason enough for a chief to seek or accept any outside help available in order to look with a "fresh aspect" towards the possibility of a prosecution, especially with Kolar having stated in his book that he has prepared a complete theory that leads him to believe the case could still be prosecuted. IIRC, there was once a group of retired investigative specialists who offered their help pro-bono to the BPD, and it was poo-pood too. Maybe some of them would still be willing?

I just don't understand what keeps LE in Boulder from untying their own hands.

 

[gramcracker]

I've wondered if revealing what went wrong (and why) would cause too much personal (and possibly legal) damage