"Who would leave children that young alone?"

[brit1981]

Its not uncommon all over Europe to be fifty metres away from your sleeping children. I disagree with it, but it is more common than you think. Hotels all over offer listening services which involve a sleeping child being left in room whilst parents go out. Every thirty minutes a hotel nanny listens outside the door for crying. Its a bad system but these are still used today believe it or not.

 

[Donjeta]

Its not uncommon all over Europe to be fifty metres away from your sleeping children. I disagree with it, but it is more common than you think. Hotels all over offer listening services which involve a sleeping child being left in room whilst parents go out. Every thirty minutes a hotel nanny listens outside the door for crying. Its a bad system but these are still used today believe it or not.

Are those rooms unlocked?

 

[jordynsmommy529]

Its not uncommon all over Europe to be fifty metres away from your sleeping children. I disagree with it, but it is more common than you think. Hotels all over offer listening services which involve a sleeping child being left in room whilst parents go out. Every thirty minutes a hotel nanny listens outside the door for crying. Its a bad system but these are still used today believe it or not.

Hasn't it already been said that they were more then 50 meters away?

 

[Cailin Rua]

The biggest danger with toddlers sleeping alone in an apartment isn't roving kidnappers, it's the fact that they wake up and wander off, or find inventive ways to harm themselves.

 

[brit1981]

According to Google earth it was about fifty, fifty two metres directly, seventy five to walk. No idea where the 130 figure came from.

Yes the rooms are often left unlocked, so if a child is crying a nanny can go on. Seems a recipe for disaster IMO. Again I disagree with it, but I also disagree with sending seven year olds to boarding school, but people in UK do that too unfortunately.

 

[brit1981]

The biggest danger with toddlers sleeping alone in an apartment isn't roving kidnappers, it's the fact that they wake up and wander off, or find inventive ways to harm themselves.

Fire would be my fear, the idea of them being trapped inside while I'm outside unable to get in terrifies me.

 

[Donjeta]

If you're away having dinner elsewhere it probably doesn't matter because they're already gone when you learn about the fire.

Video tulipalon kehittymisestä - YouTube
A video of how a house fire spreads.
No subtitles here but just watching the video it's clear that the parents don't have a long window of opportunity to rescue their sleeping children or themselves from a burning room if they are there and none at all if they first have to run from a distance.

That black smoke kills.

 

[brit1981]

If you're away having dinner elsewhere it probably doesn't matter because they're already gone when you learn about the fire.

Oh god it would be horrendous. They made a mistake, but imagine having to live with these consequences, i feel so sorry for them

 

[AlwaysShocked]

This is an interesting thread. I have learned how much I don't know.

For starters, could some of you from the U.K. please explain the system for meals and "tea time" - giving actual time-of-day for each. I have heard of tea time but never really understood it.

Where I live (Pennsylvania)
Breakfast - morning usually within a half hour of arising

Lunch - Usually between 12:00 noon and 1:00 PM (Could be a little earlier or later)

Snack after school - cookies and milk or fruit, perhaps, given to children when they return to home from school Afternoon, usually between 3:30 to 4:30PM

Dinner: Between Usually between 6:00-7:00PM, could be earlier but not usually too much later

Bedtime snack - Food eaten before bedtime by children Could be cookies or cereal Time depends on age of child

In the Madeline case, it was mentioned that the children in the "crèche" (a new term for me. What exactly is this? What we call "day care" here in the U.S.?) were being served food at teatime. Would this be dinner-type food or snack food? Then another post mentioned some children being put to bed right after teatime and sleeping through the night. If so, when would they then ever have their dinner?

Thanks for any assistance with this!

 

[SapphireSteel]

A crèche is a child care centre.

As far as English tea time, I believe the main meal is eaten at lunch (dinner) and tea is a light meal later in the afternoon around 4pm. This may be followed up by supper closer to bedtime.

It's a bit different down here in Australia.

Here "tea" is the main meal of the day eaten at 6-7pm, usually hot. Lunch tends to be lighter, a sandwich or something. Basically reverse this arrangement and you have the British mealtimes.

 

[Gem2626]

This is an interesting thread. I have learned how much I don't know.

For starters, could some of you from the U.K. please explain the system for meals and "tea time" - giving actual time-of-day for each. I have heard of tea time but never really understood it.

Where I live (Pennsylvania)
Breakfast - morning usually within a half hour of arising

Lunch - Usually between 12:00 noon and 1:00 PM (Could be a little earlier or later)

Snack after school - cookies and milk or fruit, perhaps, given to children when they return to home from school Afternoon, usually between 3:30 to 4:30PM

Dinner: Between Usually between 6:00-7:00PM, could be earlier but not usually too much later

Bedtime snack - Food eaten before bedtime by children Could be cookies or cereal Time depends on age of child

In the Madeline case, it was mentioned that the children in the "crèche" (a new term for me. What exactly is this? What we call "day care" here in the U.S.?) were being served food at teatime. Would this be dinner-type food or snack food? Then another post mentioned some children being put to bed right after teatime and sleeping through the night. If so, when would they then ever have their dinner?

Thanks for any assistance with this![/QUOTE

People tend to eat exactly the same here in the UK as you do there, the same type of meals at the same times. Tea is exactly the same thing as dinner. I think tea is more of a term used up north as down south we tend to say dinner but I do know a few people who call it tea, in fact i'm sure I have done at some point.

In the UK some people might have afternoon tea (and cake) which is basically the adult version of after school snack.

 

[brit1981]

the use of tea and dinner vary in the UK depending on the area and class. Traditionally working class people refer to the midday meal as dinner instead of lunch, and evening meal as tea instead of dinner or supper, but it varies. the meal the childrne had called tea would have been their main meal I believe.
Creche is like daycare. But this was a holiday creche where they children did activities, especially the older children. They are called kids clubs and let the childrne play together and do sports etc. So in this case it might be a bit more like a mini day camp.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Okay, thanks. So on this holiday, the children were fed some kind of food at what they called "high tea", which took place at around 5:00PM and was over at 5:30. And that was it as far as feeding their children? But the large meal for the family would have been at noon?

The parents were "going out to dinner" each night at the restaurant. For a scheduled 8:30 reservation, which had apparently morphed into 9:00PM. That would be considered to be a late dinner hour here in the U.S.! Not impossible, but fairly late. Few with children would ever plan to eat dinner that late.

The only time I have ever seen a large hot meal served at lunchtime was when I was a child and my German-background grandmother would serve a large meal on Sunday at around 1:00PM.

Otherwise, we also have a thing here called "brunch". A combination of breakfast and lunch. Usually served around noon. Has breakfast foods and often other hot meats, fruits and salads. Mostly it is a festive type of "Sunday thing". Like a "Mother's Day Brunch" - with mimosas!

Some more questions:
What is the difference between "tea" and "high tea"?

What is with the British custom of family members wearing paper hats, paper crowns, etc. during a Christmas holiday or birthday dinner? (I've seen this in British movies) Is done on a regular basis?

For the birthday party of a very small child we might wear "party hats" at a birthday party, but by and large after about age 7 or 8 the kids think they are stupid.

Do you have anything in late November that would be the equivalent of our Thanksgiving?

What about Halloween? How is it celebrated, if at all?

(Sorry. I know this is all off topic. Maybe we can just chalk it up to a lesson in international understanding.)

 

[brit1981]

Okay, thanks. So on this holiday, the children were fed some kind of food at what they called "high tea", which took place at around 5:00PM and was over at 5:30. And that was it as far as feeding their children? But the large meal for the family would have been at noon?

The parents were "going out to dinner" each night at the restaurant. For a scheduled 8:30 reservation, which had apparently morphed into 9:00PM. That would be considered to be a late dinner hour here in the U.S.! Not impossible, but fairly late. Few with children would ever plan to eat dinner that late.

The only time I have ever seen a large hot meal served at lunchtime was when I was a child and my German-background grandmother would serve a large meal on Sunday at around 1:00PM.

Otherwise, we also have a thing here called "brunch". A combination of breakfast and lunch. Usually served around noon. Has breakfast foods and often other hot meats, fruits and salads. Mostly it is a festive type of "Sunday thing". Like a "Mother's Day Brunch" - with mimosas!

Some more questions:
What is the difference between "tea" and "high tea"?

What is with the British custom of family members wearing paper hats, paper crowns, etc. during a Christmas holiday or birthday dinner? (I've seen this in British movies) Is done on a regular basis?

For the birthday party of a very small child we might wear "party hats" at a birthday party, but by and large after about age 7 or 8 the kids think they are stupid.

Do you have anything in late November that would be the equivalent of our Thanksgiving?

What about Halloween? How is it celebrated, if at all?

(Sorry. I know this is all off topic. Maybe we can just chalk it up to a lesson in international understanding.)

Differences between tea and high tea vary a lot, but I would generally think of high tea as being more substantial than tea, so it would be an actual meal.

As for the meal times again it varies, but certainly for middle class people on holiday in Europe it would not be late in my opinion. I tend to eat from eight to nine normally and if I was eating out eight would be the absolute earliest for me.

Main meals can be served at lunchtime, but normally only on Sundays like you describe. Some people would still refer to lunch as dinner though, just as some might refer to evening meal as tea.

We have brunch too. I often will go for brunch at weekends with friends.

The hats you are thinking of come from crackers, it is hideous tradition in Britain to wear the stupid things at least for a jokey few minutes
Halloween is celebrated but is relatively new that it is made such a fuss if. We do not have thanksgiving but do celebrate guy Fawkes night on the fifth of November .

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Thank you so much for answering my questions, Brit!

"The hats you are thinking of come from crackers"

What does the term "crackers" mean in this sentence? Here in the U.S. crackers are 1.) something we eat, also called "soda crackers" by some. I think you might call them "digestive biscuits"? 2.) a racial slur used by African Americans in regard to white folks - currently being talked about in the George Zimmerman trial when Trayvon Martin referred to Zimmerman as a "weird *advertiser censored* cracker" 3.) Historically, around the time of the American Civil War ( early 1860s) in the South it was a pejorative term used by upper class white people about poor white tenant farmers

Back to the Madeline McCann case:

The more I read, the more questions I come up with.

Brit, in the room Medeline disappeared from there is reference to the window, the shutters, and the curtains. I understand window and I understand curtains - which we might call drapes or draperies here in the U.S.

But what is this about "shutters'? They are talking about opening or closing and/or raising and lowering the "shutters" to control light. Then they talk about can they be opened from the outside? Then say no, they were too heavy.

In my own home I have interior, slatted wooden shutters on two bedroom windows. These are custom fitted to fit inside the window frame. They open in the middle. Each panel, left and right is made up of two hinged panels. When opened they can be "folded back" at each side of the window. When closed, there is a little fastener so they can be hooked together. The wooden slats are louvers that can be moved up and down to control light.

Is this what they are talking about? Or what?

Other descriptions made me think these were venetian blinds, but then they talked about them being "heavy". Venetian blinds are not usually heavy here.
But I suppose the wide wooden type with the wide tapes could be heavy-ish to raise and lower.

Thanks for any info you can provide as to the use of the term "shutters".

eta: Here is a quote from the Portugese Police regarding this item. They refer to them as "external blinds". Sheesh, I am getting even more confused!


This is describing the actions of Gerald McCann:

"The deponent ran to the apartment accompanied by the rest of the group who, at the time, were seated at the table. When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open on one side, the external blinds almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE'S bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cribs. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scene that she found when she entered the apartment.
----- Then he closed the external blinds, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside."

 

[UKgirl]

I'm British and a parent and I've never left my children asleep in an apartment while I've gone out. I've never done it at home and I wouldn't do it abroad. I'd never heard of people doing it before the McCann case and I know it was met with horror by myself, my friends and many others. I do hope that people who live in countries away from the UK don't think is a normal practice for parents.

Thats because you believe in your children's welfare. Its a shame that some parents put drinking and their own selfish needs before their children. WHen this case first became public I do not remember one person I knew agreeing this the actions of these people.

 

[UKgirl]

This is an interesting thread. I have learned how much I don't know.

For starters, could some of you from the U.K. please explain the system for meals and "tea time" - giving actual time-of-day for each. I have heard of tea time but never really understood it.

Where I live (Pennsylvania)
Breakfast - morning usually within a half hour of arising

Lunch - Usually between 12:00 noon and 1:00 PM (Could be a little earlier or later)

Snack after school - cookies and milk or fruit, perhaps, given to children when they return to home from school Afternoon, usually between 3:30 to 4:30PM

Dinner: Between Usually between 6:00-7:00PM, could be earlier but not usually too much later

Bedtime snack - Food eaten before bedtime by children Could be cookies or cereal Time depends on age of child

In the Madeline case, it was mentioned that the children in the "crèche" (a new term for me. What exactly is this? What we call "day care" here in the U.S.?) were being served food at teatime. Would this be dinner-type food or snack food? Then another post mentioned some children being put to bed right after teatime and sleeping through the night. If so, when would they then ever have their dinner?

Thanks for any assistance with this![/QUOTE

People tend to eat exactly the same here in the UK as you do there, the same type of meals at the same times. Tea is exactly the same thing as dinner. I think tea is more of a term used up north as down south we tend to say dinner but I do know a few people who call it tea, in fact i'm sure I have done at some point.

In the UK some people might have afternoon tea (and cake) which is basically the adult version of after school snack.

Its the same. More higher class people call it high tea. THe only difference in my area is we call dinner tea. Breakfast, lunch, dinner (tea).

 

[UKgirl]

Okay, thanks. So on this holiday, the children were fed some kind of food at what they called "high tea", which took place at around 5:00PM and was over at 5:30. And that was it as far as feeding their children? But the large meal for the family would have been at noon?

The parents were "going out to dinner" each night at the restaurant. For a scheduled 8:30 reservation, which had apparently morphed into 9:00PM. That would be considered to be a late dinner hour here in the U.S.! Not impossible, but fairly late. Few with children would ever plan to eat dinner that late.

The only time I have ever seen a large hot meal served at lunchtime was when I was a child and my German-background grandmother would serve a large meal on Sunday at around 1:00PM.

Otherwise, we also have a thing here called "brunch". A combination of breakfast and lunch. Usually served around noon. Has breakfast foods and often other hot meats, fruits and salads. Mostly it is a festive type of "Sunday thing". Like a "Mother's Day Brunch" - with mimosas!

Some more questions:
What is the difference between "tea" and "high tea"?

What is with the British custom of family members wearing paper hats, paper crowns, etc. during a Christmas holiday or birthday dinner? (I've seen this in British movies) Is done on a regular basis?

For the birthday party of a very small child we might wear "party hats" at a birthday party, but by and large after about age 7 or 8 the kids think they are stupid.

Do you have anything in late November that would be the equivalent of our Thanksgiving?

What about Halloween? How is it celebrated, if at all?

(Sorry. I know this is all off topic. Maybe we can just chalk it up to a lesson in international understanding.)

The hats come from christmas crackers, which a tubular, contain a hat, gift and a very poor joke lol. We usally wear these at christmas dinner. Birthday hats are simular but not used as much Christmas cracker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Last "highjacking the thread" post!

I have found out what the "shutters" are! Not very common where I live in the U.S. and I have never encountered them on vacation either. But I do think I saw them once on a beachside condo building but did not know what they were.

Advertised as "European-style exterior roller shutters" they are a protective device - against wind, hurricanes, excessive sun, burglars - that roll down over the exterior of a window. Can be made of wood or metal but looks like the newer ones are made of metal.

The opening/closing (raising/lowering) mechanism is located within the building and theoretically, when closed and locked the shutter cannot be raised from the outside.

 

[brit1981]

The reference in the statement to external blinds shows the problem with multiple unprofessional translations, shutters became blinds. Also differences between UK English and us English cause problems too, for instance cot is a bed for a baby or young toddler in UK, but I think in the us it is a camp bed type thing. Imagine how that can get confused once multiple translations take place and people use varying English.