"Who would leave children that young alone?"

[jordynsmommy529]

In Australia this week, a 15 year old looking after 4 children (which she was related too) under the age of 11 had a house fire with a fatality of a 2 year old boy.

The media is saying that the 15 year old is a child and not responsible. I concur. The house fire started when she cooked hot oil on the stove.

Did they have a young local babysit?

BBM

They left two 2 year olds and a 3 year old too fend for themselves.

 

[chlban]

[

QUOTE=Flinders;9853485]In Australia this week, a 15 year old looking after 4 children (which she was related too) under the age of 11 had a house fire with a fatality of a 2 year old boy.

The media is saying that the 15 year old is a child and not responsible. I concur. The house fire started when she cooked hot oil on the stove.

Leaving a 15 year old babysitting is considerably different than leaving a 3 year old and 2 babies alone to go eat and drink with friends.IMO.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Yeah. Plus, they didn't just go to eat and drink with friends.

They went for 6 nights running.

They went for 5-6 hours at a time. If I go out to eat, it takes around 60 minutes from sitting down to leaving, 2 courses. 90 maybe, if I have wine.

They never had the stupid "regular checking" system on any other night.

We know Madeleine and Sean were left to cry alone for 90+ minutes on a previous evening.

:furious:

 

[jordynsmommy529]

I haven't had dinner by myself in 4 years and I wouldn't want too. I don't understand why they wouldn't want their children too join them. It show's how selfish they really are, not only them but there friends as well. I know toddlers can be a lot too handle and they don't like too sit for long period's of time but they choose too have their children, and the consequences of the choice's they made means they have too put there own selfish needs aside and put their children first! ( which clearly the did not)

 

[Donjeta]

This may sound a little random but I'm continuing a train of thought from a closed thread. I was in the middle of posting when the thread closed. I think the post wasn't breaking any rules so I hope it's okay.

JMO but I don't really see any reason to assume that they would have charged the parents for neglect without fail if there were grounds. Granted, I don't know much about Portugal and their judicial procedures but the people who make those decisions are probably pretty much the same everywhere and weigh the pros and cons about pressing charges and not pressing charges and emotions may influence the decisions. Madeleine certainly aroused a lot of emotion all around the world.

It might simply seem as a cruel and pointless and heartless thing to do when the parents are already heartbroken about losing a child.

And even if you didn't care about their heartbreak personally I think whenever a case gets so much international attention and so many feathers ruffled in high places and so many reporters and members of the public so heavily invested in the case, the prosecutors are likely to feel like they're walking on eggshells because whatever they do will make so much bigger waves than they ever thought and there could be a lot of unpleasant backlash and bad PR and a lot of people are going to think that you're the bad guys who persecute heartbroken parents instead of righteous fighters for justice and the rights of the children.

So IMO it was never going to be as easy and automatic as prosecuting Joe Schmo who no one has heard about and no one cares about.

30 minutes is plenty of time for a child to drown though. Or to get abducted. Or just a very long time for them to be missing their parents and realize that they're not coming.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I haven't had dinner by myself in 4 years and I wouldn't want too. I don't understand why they wouldn't want their children too join them. It show's how selfish they really are, not only them but there friends as well. I know toddlers can be a lot too handle and they don't like too sit for long period's of time but they choose too have their children, and the consequences of the choice's they made means they have too put there own selfish needs aside and put their children first! ( which clearly the did not)

I don't think it is selfish to want to eat alone with adults. That is normal I think.

I don't know why they did not use the sitting service but they didn't. They all seemed to have this plan to watch the kids in shifts. They seemed to think they had it all worked out.

 

[Donjeta]

If they only would have watched the kids in shifts that would have been perfectly fine. But they didn't.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib...ictures/notwaerialview.jpg&target=tlx_picnajd

http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib...smatchtapasrestauraxe3.jpg&target=tlx_picmj3l

This is a view from Tapas bar to their room.

I think they just had a false sense of security. IT really does not seem that far.

 

[Donjeta]

Far is a relative concept. It's not far for a healthy adult to walk but it's far enough that you don't have any idea what's going on inside the residence and it's far for a child who wakes up, panics and goes out looking for her parents in the dark.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Far is a relative concept. It's not far for a healthy adult to walk but it's far enough that you don't have any idea what's going on inside the residence and it's far for a child who wakes up, panics and goes out looking for her parents in the dark.

I agree. Just trying to make sense of the night and see it the way they did to find the answers.

 

[jordynsmommy529]

I don't think it is selfish to want to eat alone with adults. That is normal I think.

I don't know why they did not use the sitting service but they didn't. They all seemed to have this plan to watch the kids in shifts. They seemed to think they had it all worked out.

BBM

Isn't dinner supposed too be about family time? Why would you not want too eat dinner with your children? Imoo it is not normal at all too eat dinner without your children it is also very very selfish.

 

[Donjeta]

It was probably past most little children's bedtime anyway. I don't see anything wrong with having a dinner with adults, as long as adequate child care has been arranged for.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The thing is, its another inconsistency in behaviour.

These people claimed to be loving, caring parents, yet they placed their babies in a strange crèche every single day of the holiday, for every single hour it was open.

I think they took them into the village once for an icecream but it was cold so they came back.

There was no family fun days, just the crèche, for these kids.

Then, every single night of a 7 day holiday, they went across to the Tapas restaurant for dinner. Without their children.

Not just a quick dinner either...the routine was quickly established to be at the restaurant by 7.30 and not leave until nearly midnight, every single night.

Yes, that's a 4.5 hour "dinner". As a parent of young ones, I was lucky if I got 5 minutes to eat.

Every single night...even after Madeleine had told them she'd woken crying.

There was no "regular" checking. The other sets of parents all stayed home with their children, took it in turns, got babysitters.

Not the McCanns....they just wandered off without so much as a second thought to the safety of their children.

They didn't even bother to lock the door.

:furious:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

BBM

Isn't dinner supposed too be about family time? Why would you not want too eat dinner with your children? Imoo it is not normal at all too eat dinner without your children it is also very very selfish.

It is normal to eat without the kids. To go out and enjoy your dinner.
It is not at all selfish. Especially with kids that little. They usually go to bed pretty early and so you eat when they go to bed.

 

[LadyL]

http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib...ictures/notwaerialview.jpg&target=tlx_picnajd

http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib...smatchtapasrestauraxe3.jpg&target=tlx_picmj3l

This is a view from Tapas bar to their room.

I think they just had a false sense of security. IT really does not seem that far.

[bbm]

I agree. Countless parents have gone down to a hotel bar and left their children up in the room or out in the backyard for a bbq or even to a neighbours house when they live in a cul-de-sac or an apartment. We might not do it but plenty of people do and plenty of times nothing happens. They're on the same property or close enough that they have that sense of security.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

[bbm]

I agree. Countless parents have gone down to a hotel bar and left their children up in the room or out in the backyard for a bbq or even to a neighbours house when they live in a cul-de-sac or an apartment. We might not do it but plenty of people do and plenty of times nothing happens. They're on the same property or close enough that they have that sense of security.

Especially if you live in the city they always have block parties that end up a lot of times with the kids in bed and the parents all out together on the block chatting and hanging out.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

IT is something that I think is not common everywhere but this is what I was talking about before.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21537988
"Daytime temperatures this winter in Stockholm have regularly dropped to -5C (23F) but it's still common to see children left outside by their parents for a sleep in the pram.

Wander through the snowy city and you'll see buggies lined up outside coffee shops while parents sip on lattes inside."


They just park their kids outside alone and let them sleep out there unattended.

"For Danes, the dunes are a matter of necessity because their kids nap outside year-round. If the family doesn’t have a yard or a balcony, the babies might nap in the courtyard while moms check on them occasionally from their fifth-story windows as they bring their minimalist houses to the impossible levels of perfection Oprah featured in her Copenhagen segment."

http://www.babble.com/baby/baby-sleep-parenting-wisdom-scandinavia/

 

[Jmoose]

http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib...ictures/notwaerialview.jpg&target=tlx_picnajd

http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib...smatchtapasrestauraxe3.jpg&target=tlx_picmj3l

This is a view from Tapas bar to their room.

I think they just had a false sense of security. IT really does not seem that far.

But from there, they can't hear their children crying; only the neighbors can-that doesn't seem very civil, does it? I would be very put out if I had the room or suite or whatever next to them and had to listen to the children crying while their selfish parents were relaxing and having fun. I just don't understand when this became an appropriate way of vacationing for people with small children. Life is really hard when your children are small-my kids were 14 months apart, and we just never did this (go on trips and do stuff without our children, leaving them either alone or with a strange sitter)

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

But from there, they can't hear their children crying; only the neighbors can-that doesn't seem very civil, does it? I would be very put out if I had the room or suite or whatever next to them and had to listen to the children crying while their selfish parents were relaxing and having fun. I just don't understand when this became an appropriate way of vacationing for people with small children. Life is really hard when your children are small-my kids were 14 months apart, and we just never did this (go on trips and do stuff without our children, leaving them either alone or with a strange sitter)

I think that is a completely different issue the neighbors however, Most likely they figured with people so close that they would be safe.

I don't think the parents are being selfish wanting adult time. I still don't like their method of kid watching.. but I don't think that makes them selfish.

 

[SapphireSteel]

[bbm]

I agree. Countless parents have gone down to a hotel bar and left their children up in the room or out in the backyard for a bbq or even to a neighbours house when they live in a cul-de-sac or an apartment. We might not do it but plenty of people do and plenty of times nothing happens. They're on the same property or close enough that they have that sense of security.

Those children are also in their own homes.

These babies were left alone in a strange apartment, in a foreign country. Foreign beds, smells, sounds, noises.

People walking by talking. Strange doors opening and shutting.

These parents knew their children had been frightened and crying the evening/s before.

These parents claimed they could see the apartment from where they sat. That is a blatant lie.

Not only was the view obscured, the McCanns sat with their backs to the window that night.

Couple that with not having a baby monitor (why not?) and you've got some very, very callous behaviour indeed.