Why did Madeleine 'go missing'?

[UKgirl]

So you agree there is no evidence of sedation. Why claim it, if there is not a shred of evidence. And what car, they did not have a car until weeks later.

Actually my point was that you couldn't show that there was no evidence of sedation because there is no body. You cant claim to know something you dont just as much as i can't. HOw can you claim there is no sedation either!.

 

[UKgirl]

That's not accurate, they heard a child crying but could not be certain which flat its from. Their statement does not match other witness statements regarding the times the McCann's came back either, so no one has any idea who the child was. Oddly there have been media reports that an unidentified couple went into the flat to comfort Madeleine, but this seems to be unsubstantiated.

It is already known that Pamela Fenn, who lived directly above apartment 5a, heard a child, believed to be Madeleine, crying for about an hour on the evening of May 2.

She was so concerned she rang a friend in the village to ask what to do and considered ringing Portugal’s Policia Judiciaria.

At the time, Madeleine’s mother Kate and father Gerry were dining with friends at a tapas bar some 50 yards from the apartment.

A source said: “Police were astonished when this new information came to light. Officers spoke to other key witnesses to discover more about the middle-aged couple.

“Apparently they were concerned about the crying and went to see if they could comfort the girl.”

Pamela Fenn has since died, so police have been speaking to other people who were staying in the same apartments.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/40...on-night-before-sobbing-Madeleine-disappeared


REally! Gosh I guess they are lying too :twocents:

 

[UKgirl]

There was a concern an abductor could have sedated the children. It turned out there was a paedophile in the area who had previously sedated victims.

I can find no evidence of this online, could you provide some.

 

[josie1986]

i read this thread never post but just to offer a little perspective on the whole over-dosed on calpol theory....

my son,he is the same age as when Madeline went missing,recently got into our supply of calpol a 200ml bottle. the largest they sell over here anyway not sure of those countries.
He somehow managed to get the child safety cap off which i can't get off sometimes and he drank the whole bottle minus 2 small spoonfuls. we went to the hospital and were told he took 4times the amount that they class as an overdose and he was fine,no drowsiness etc.

i know all children are different and what not but with that said,they would need a heck of a lot of calpol to make the poor sausage overdose enough to kill her.

just my 2cents of perspective

 

[brit1981]

I can find no evidence of this online, could you provide some.

It was Raymond Hewett, turned out he had previously chloroformed a child. But I think the worry the children had been sedated is more of a everything is significant in hindsight type thing. Yes, the twins were very sound asleep but children can sleep through anything. I regularly do the finger under nose breathing test.

 

[brit1981]

i read this thread never post but just to offer a little perspective on the whole over-dosed on calpol theory....

my son,he is the same age as when Madeline went missing,recently got into our supply of calpol a 200ml bottle. the largest they sell over here anyway not sure of those countries.
He somehow managed to get the child safety cap off which i can't get off sometimes and he drank the whole bottle minus 2 small spoonfuls. we went to the hospital and were told he took 4times the amount that they class as an overdose and he was fine,no drowsiness etc.

i know all children are different and what not but with that said,they would need a heck of a lot of calpol to make the poor sausage overdose enough to kill her.

just my 2cents of perspective

That's correct. Calpol is just paracetamol and is not a sedative. It takes a large amount to be fatal and would result in major vomiting. Long term damage would be visible I.e yellowing of skin etc.

 

[brit1981]

It is already known that Pamela Fenn, who lived directly above apartment 5a, heard a child, believed to be Madeleine, crying for about an hour on the evening of May 2.

She was so concerned she rang a friend in the village to ask what to do and considered ringing Portugal’s Policia Judiciaria.

At the time, Madeleine’s mother Kate and father Gerry were dining with friends at a tapas bar some 50 yards from the apartment.

A source said: “Police were astonished when this new information came to light. Officers spoke to other key witnesses to discover more about the middle-aged couple.

“Apparently they were concerned about the crying and went to see if they could comfort the girl.”

Pamela Fenn has since died, so police have been speaking to other people who were staying in the same apartments.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/40...on-night-before-sobbing-Madeleine-disappeared


REally! Gosh I guess they are lying too :twocents:

In fairness, the express has admitted it lied about them in the past.
But whilst some believe the child heard was Madeleine its never been confirmed. No one alerted the staff either which if they were so worried they called friends etc would seem natural as staff would know who the parents were, had keys to check no one was hurt etc. The weird bit of that story is the claim about the couple trying to go into the flat. Seriously if you heard a crying child would you go into the home at night. It could just be an upset child with the parents there, controlled crying etc, or at most would you not contact staff etc. Entering a strangers flat at night to go to the children is not a normal response. I do wonder if they express are just printing speculation, or if this has actually been reported to police.

ETA. Just thought that the only reason anyone of good intentions would go into the flat was because they knew the parents stayed out at dinner, would be the sort of thing people would talk about if they disagreed with it.

 

[josie1986]

That's correct. Calpol is just paracetamol and is not a sedative. It takes a large amount to be fatal and would result in major vomiting. Long term damage would be visible I.e yellowing of skin etc.

Piriton is said to make them drowsy, I wouldn't ever give any of my two that but I've read about it being used to sedate kids on long haul flights etc but I don't think you could od on it.


Sent from my 'alternate reality' using my hippocampus

 

[Clutchbag]

In fairness, the express has admitted it lied about them in the past.
But whilst some believe the child heard was Madeleine its never been confirmed. No one alerted the staff either which if they were so worried they called friends etc would seem natural as staff would know who the parents were, had keys to check no one was hurt etc. The weird bit of that story is the claim about the couple trying to go into the flat. Seriously if you heard a crying child would you go into the home at night. It could just be an upset child with the parents there, controlled crying etc, or at most would you not contact staff etc. Entering a strangers flat at night to go to the children is not a normal response. I do wonder if they express are just printing speculation, or if this has actually been reported to police.

ETA. Just thought that the only reason anyone of good intentions would go into the flat was because they knew the parents stayed out at dinner, would be the sort of thing people would talk about if they disagreed with it.

Err hello????? The express newspaper didnt lie about them,they reported their next door neighbour hearing a child crying for over an hour, and that witness statement is in the official files, so is a fact, so stop spinning please

 

[Gem2626]

Also interesting in Pamela Fenn's statement

"On the 3rd May she received a visit from her niece Carole during the morning, who said that when she was on her terrace she saw a male individual looking into the McCanns apartment, situation which has been told to the police, her family member even made a photo fit"

"When questioned she said that she never saw any strange person or action before or after the event. She claims however, that a week previously she was the victim of an attempted robbery, which was not successful and neither was anything taken, thinking that the crying of the child could be linked to another attempted robbery in the residence".

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

 

[SapphireSteel]

Also interesting in Pamela Fenn's statement

"On the 3rd May she received a visit from her niece Carole during the morning, who said that when she was on her terrace she saw a male individual looking into the McCanns apartment, situation which has been told to the police, her family member even made a photo fit"

"When questioned she said that she never saw any strange person or action before or after the event. She claims however, that a week previously she was the victim of an attempted robbery, which was not successful and neither was anything taken, thinking that the crying of the child could be linked to another attempted robbery in the residence".

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

Also of significance and interest in that link - heavily snipped by me -

She also refers to the day of the 1st May 2007,...at approximately 22.30 she heard a child cry...the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted ?Daddy, Daddy...During the day nothing unusual happened, until almost 22.30 when, being alone again, she heard the hysterical shouts from a female person, calling out ?we have let her down? which she repeated several times, quite upset. Mrs Fenn then saw that it was the mother of little Madeleine who was shouting furiously. ...she found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios... She also refers to an episode when Gerry was speaking to a policeman and he refused to recognised the police force, saying that more agents of authority were needed to carry out the search.

While Kate was screaming (with apparent guilt) and Gerry was demanding, neither of them were actually looking for, or calling for, their lost daughter.

Gerry didn't even mention it was his daughter that was "abducted'!

How strange...considering Madeleine could conceivably have wandered into Mrs Fenns apartment during the night and be safely sitting on her sofa munching popcorn.

:twocents:

 

[jane_tennison]

There seems to be too much hearsay/gossip junk to filter through when taking a pedestrian look at info on his event

 

[SapphireSteel]

There seems to be too much hearsay/gossip junk to filter through when taking a pedestrian look at info on his event

That's why we need to rely on the source documents - by which I mean, interview transcripts, books written by various players, the videos made by concerned parties - essentially whatever is from the horses mouth.

Just like the Ramseys.

When you have a lot of money or influence, you can pay or persuade folks to plant and leak stories in your favour to the media.

The media in the UK has a fairly poor reputation so many of the big dailies print any old rubbish as long as it makes a headline and sells papers (I'm looking at you, Daily Mail).
:twocents:

 

[redheadedgal]

The Great Coconut Scandal, which so often graces these threads regarding Madeleine.

For some reason the British trained Cadaver Dog is apparently the only Cadaver Dog in history who specialises in coconut.

I have never seen a link to this accusation (despite asking numerous times) and repeating it endlessly doesn't make it so.

the great coconut scandal is often brought up in the lisa irwin threads too... here is a response to one such post i made a while back:

Originally Posted by brit1981 I agree, why not take a ten month old probably easier to handle than a new born. Plus there was one dog hit, but there were hits when looking for Gina de Jesus too and she was alive. Would le have looked harder if they thought she was alive? Plus dogs have made other false alerts like in the jersey case where Grimes dog alerted to coconut.

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no links? i'd like to see one that mentions the hit in the de jesus case -- thnx!

here are some interesting ones about that coconut:

Another nonsense is the &#8216;coconut story&#8217;. What was believed to be a piece of child&#8217;s skull was recovered and subsequently found to contain collagen (only found in mammals) This then found its way to Kew Gardens for forensics, and then just happened to change size, colour and shape and somehow ended up being a piece of coconut.

http://jerseyabusescandal.blogspot.c...1_archive.html


Eddie is now reacting very strongly and indicating to us that the scent of dead human flesh is in this location. This is where we were to find JAR/6, which the establishment continue to say was only coconut, but cannot explain how Eddie reacted as he did, nor indeed, how the lab at Oxford found Collagen.

Collagen is not found in coconut or wood, it is only present in mammals, which would seem to destroy the claims of the Jersey establishment, aided and abetted by the Jersey Evening Post and Channel Television, that JAR/6 is coconut or wood.

If this dog was a waste of money, then how did he lead us to this exact spot? How did he later, in the &#8216;live&#8217; presence of Wendy Kinnard (the then Home Affairs Minister) and Graham Power (the then Chief Police Officer), lead us to the bones in the cellars which an Anthropologist in the United Kingdom said were &#8220;fleshed and fresh&#8221; when burnt and buried? It cannot be a co-incidence that this dog, trained to detect the scent of dead human flesh, reacted so strongly in an area where we were to find a fragment of substance initially identified by a professional, accomplished, Anthropologist, as a part of a child&#8217;s skull, and right beside the spot where builders found bones and children&#8217;s shoes which they thought were human bones. No amount of spin by Le Marquand and others can contradict this, and no amount of misinformation from Warcup and Gradwell can conceal this truth.

Throughout the investigation, we subjected Martin and his dogs to many &#8216;verifying&#8217; tests, from burying swabs in sand (which he always found no matter how large an area), to minute blood stains. The dogs never failed!

As for Martin Grime and the dogs that they have tried to discredit, they are now working full time for one of the best Law Enforcement Agencies in the world in the USA: the FBI.

http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.n...enne-in-jersey

original post @ Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - what are your thoughts now? *re-re-poll*

 

[Clutchbag]

I just discovered another forum discussing this case if any one is interested, have a look


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=18.0

Join up the more the merrier

Redheadegal, the very fact that the mccanns lawyers and they themselves have tried so hard to discredit the dogs to the point of libelling the handler should tell you something...something to hide imo

 

[Clutchbag]

That's why we need to rely on the source documents - by which I mean, interview transcripts, books written by various players, the videos made by concerned parties - essentially whatever is from the horses mouth.

Just like the Ramseys.

When you have a lot of money or influence, you can pay or persuade folks to plant and leak stories in your favour to the media.

The media in the UK has a fairly poor reputation so many of the big dailies print any old rubbish as long as it makes a headline and sells papers (I'm looking at you, Daily Mail).
:twocents:

Oj and the police are still looking for his wifes killers, casey and the police still looking for caleys killer? Is mr ramsey still looking for jonbenets killer?Nuff said

 

[SapphireSteel]

Oj and the police are still looking for his wifes killers, casey and the police still looking for caleys killer? Is mr ramsey still looking for jonbenets killer?Nuff said

Exactly.

Casey Anthony in particular shows if you lie, and keep lying, you don't even need to be particularly clever to "get away with it".

You just need a fancy lawyer.

Having the Prime Minister's office on your side can't hurt either.

 

[Clutchbag]

Exactly.

Casey Anthony in particular shows if you lie, and keep lying, you don't even need to be particularly clever to "get away with it".

You just need a fancy lawyer.

Having the Prime Minister's office on your side can't hurt either.

Casey anthonys lawyer was the dumbest dork i have ever had the misfortune of watching on tv......if someone like him can get a murderer off gosh... Richer people have every chance of being let off, disgusting

What a surreal trial, the parents he said found the baby drowned???? In the pool?and didnt report it? What a bunch of no marks and caseys mother, guilty as hell for lying, nasty women for covering up the murder of their grandchild by their child,vomit

Or even the death in their custody, shame on casey and her mother, rip little caley betrayed and murdEred may They rot in hell for ever

 

[SapphireSteel]

Casey anthonys lawyer was the dumbest dork i have ever had the misfortune of watching on tv......if someone like him can get a murderer off gosh... Richer people have every chance of being let off, disgusting

What a surreal trial, the parents he said found the baby drowned???? In the pool?and didnt report it? What a bunch of no marks and caseys mother, guilty as hell for lying, nasty women for covering up the murder of their grandchild by their child,vomit

Yes, justice can be purchased.

Perhaps Caley and Madeleine are both better off now than growing up with their "families".

 

[Clutchbag]

Yes, justice can be purchased.

Perhaps Caley and Madeleine are both better off now than growing up with their "families".

definitely

Perhaps if maddie is ever in thr mccanns will it will come with an apology of spending so much more on lawyers to save their own skins than looking for her