Why is it that they made the Ramsey family out as being "The Perfect Family"?

[JMO8778]

..turning the rest of the size's 12's in had two purposes,IMO...main one,of course,was that their stories didn't match,so opps!, 'here they are'.Second reason was an attempt to imply LE hadn't searched the house very well,and so they could have possibly overlooked other evidence,too.(yea,and they missed a whole package of underwear?! ..think not !!)
But the thing that shows conspiracy in this is that,in any *other murder case,that would have been PROOF that evidence had been concealed and removed form the house...but not in this one...go figure !!

 

[Ames]

I think that was the near the same month/yr JB was killed..Nov. '96.I think in her Christmas letter for that yr,she had mentioned the show and being on tv for a few moments.(no wonder she made the host something.I wonder if she mentioned she was a former Ms WV? lol).And in DOI,there is a pic of Patsy and JB on the outdoor ice skating rink in NY,which I think is said to be on that same trip.

LOL..yeah, doesn't baking something to give the hosts, sound so PATSY?? I wouldn't put it past her to have had a sign made that said..."Former Miss WV"...but, the word former would be really small. "Former Miss WV".

 

[JMO8778]

LOL..yeah, doesn't baking something to give the hosts, sound so PATSY??

Indeed it does !

I wouldn't put it past her to have had a sign made that said..."Former Miss WV"...but, the word former would be really small. "Former Miss WV".

LOL.right on!
I bet she told the host she was THE former Miss WV,and so they put her on the air.She surely did love attention,esp. being on tv.

 

[Ames]

Indeed it does !

LOL.right on!
I bet she told the host she was THE former Miss WV,and so they put her on the air.She surely did love attention,esp. being on tv.

My guess is that is the reason that she and John went on CNN to plead for help in finding their daughter's killer...INSTEAD of doing an interview with the investigators...she just wanted to be on TV.

 

[JMO8778]

My guess is that is the reason that she and John went on CNN to plead for help in finding their daughter's killer...INSTEAD of doing an interview with the investigators...she just wanted to be on TV.

...it was probably much more exciting for her...helping those old cops was boring,yanno.

 

[DeeDee249]

There are some things we are never going to know- whether the unwrapped gifts in the basement had name tags, whether the size 12s showed evidence of having ever been laundered, and whether they actually ever were in JBR's panty drawer, for which we have only PR's statement that they were. I tend not to believe what PR says.
I tend also not to believe it because I can't think of another good reason why someone might open wrapped gifts, except to look for something that that had wrapped. And because I think if there been other times when huge panties that were obviously not her size were worn, either the housekeeper would have noticed it (she did laundry for the Rs) or one of the several adults that helped JBR with wiping on occasion would have come forward when the panties became an issue to say that they had seen her wear panties on occasion that clearly were not her size.

 

[trixie]

There are some things we are never going to know- whether the unwrapped gifts in the basement had name tags, whether the size 12s showed evidence of having ever been laundered, and whether they actually ever were in JBR's panty drawer, for which we have only PR's statement that they were. I tend not to believe what PR says.
I tend also not to believe it because I can't think of another good reason why someone might open wrapped gifts, except to look for something that [/B]that had wrapped. And because I think if there been other times when huge panties that were obviously not her size were worn, either the housekeeper would have noticed it (she did laundry for the Rs) or one of the several adults that helped JBR with wiping on occasion would have come forward when the panties became an issue to say that they had seen her wear panties on occasion that clearly were not her size.

This is quite a problem whether or not to believe a known liar. But we can't exactly cherry pick what to believe and what not to believe can we? I dunno, maybe we can.
Regarding the partially wrapped gifts didn't Patsy say in one of her interviews that some of those were for Burkes birthday coming up in January and she needed to peek and see which was which? That would be another good reason to partially unwrap a gift. But then again, Patsy said it so....?

 

[DeeDee249]

This is quite a problem whether or not to believe a known liar. But we can't exactly cherry pick what to believe and what not to believe can we? I dunno, maybe we can.
Regarding the partially wrapped gifts didn't Patsy say in one of her interviews that some of those were for Burkes birthday coming up in January and she needed to peek and see which was which? That would be another good reason to partially unwrap a gift. But then again, Patsy said it so....?

Of course we can "cherry pick". Either something seems like a iie or it doesn't. PR IS a known liar. Now as far as the gifts being BR's- her explanation sounds like a lie too. She bought and wrapped the gifts- while I can imagine forgetting what was in each box specifically, as a mom you'd still remember what you bought. And what difference would it make anyway- he's going to open them all. She didn't need to peek. This was once again a R spin job. There wasn't one aspect of the evidence that they didn't explain away, or simply deny (the pineapple, bowl, tissue box - I mean TISSUE BOX! Who denies owning a BOX OF TISSUES!) As if an intruder thought they'd better bring along a box of tissues in case anyone needed it. Maybe JBR would have a cold or cry, and gee, in a 16+ room house who'd know WHERE to find tissues...
Her explanation about the unwrapped gifts is just as lame. When asked about them, she also said in a deposition that they were some Christmas gifts she was in the "process of wrapping". That is so fake. You can have several boxes and wrap one and not get around to wrapping the rest but think about it. We've ALL wrapped a gift. Do you wrap one half of a box and leave it? Not unless someone yelled FIRE and you had to evacuate. They were UNwrapped boxes, not "partially" wrapped.

 

[trixie]

LOL! I know I know! Frustrating isn't it? I think Patsy thought everybody was as dumb as she was.
But I'm going to throw this out to you DeeDee just is case you thought your frustration was over tonight. lol! WHAT IF.......the gifts really were not tagged with names so Patsy didn't know which gifts were Burkes birthday presents and which were Christmas presents? Ok I'm running away from you now................!:crazy:

 

[UKGuy]

There are some things we are never going to know- whether the unwrapped gifts in the basement had name tags, whether the size 12s showed evidence of having ever been laundered, and whether they actually ever were in JBR's panty drawer, for which we have only PR's statement that they were. I tend not to believe what PR says.
I tend also not to believe it because I can't think of another good reason why someone might open wrapped gifts, except to look for something that that had wrapped. And because I think if there been other times when huge panties that were obviously not her size were worn, either the housekeeper would have noticed it (she did laundry for the Rs) or one of the several adults that helped JBR with wiping on occasion would have come forward when the panties became an issue to say that they had seen her wear panties on occasion that clearly were not her size.

DeeDee249,

whether the unwrapped gifts in the basement had name tags

The investigators will know this, note how ST never made this feature public in his book, same as he never told us about JonBenet's stained underwear in her panty drawer e.g. he only released enough information to make his Toilet Rage theory plausible.

whether the size 12s showed evidence of having ever been laundered,

Assuming they were, your theory must offer an explanation as to why the other 6 pairs were then removed from JonBenet's panty drawer and made to vanish? This disappearing act was patently not enacted by Patsy since when interviewed she told Ms Harmer:

A. I can't say for sure. I mean, I
8 think I bought them with the intention of
9 sending them in a package of Christmas things
10 to Atlanta. Obviously I didn't get that
11 together, so I just put them in her, her
12 panty drawer. So they were free game.

Why would Patsy open up gifts she had so recently wrapped to find a tube of panties, place a pair on JonBenet, removing the remainder from the crime-scene, then proceed to tell investigators, she placed them all into JonBenet's panty drawer. Yet no size-12's were found in the drawer. This does not add up, its yet another little inconsistency in the PDI. Its more likely that she was following someone elses plan, since her dna or fingerprints on the tube would be of no significance, so why remove the tube of panties, go figure?


.

 

[UKGuy]

LOL! I know I know! Frustrating isn't it? I think Patsy thought everybody was as dumb as she was.
But I'm going to throw this out to you DeeDee just is case you thought your frustration was over tonight. lol! WHAT IF.......the gifts really were not tagged with names so Patsy didn't know which gifts were Burkes birthday presents and which were Christmas presents? Ok I'm running away from you now................!:crazy:

trixie,
You reckon Pasty was so dumb that she wrapped xmas-gifts without placing either a named gift-tag, or marking them so that when she returned to finish them off, she would not need to open all gifts one by one so she could then place either gift-tags or name them by writing on the outside of the gift-wrapping?

 

[trixie]

I reckon Patsy at least knew that a package wrapped with FAO Scwartz paper would be for the little kids and not for , say, John or Nedra. Haven't you ever run out of gift tags when you were wrapping a lot of presents at once? Seems to me like Patsy was extremely busy that Christmas. Maybe she ran out and didn't get any new ones yet but she could at least get them wrapped while she was on a roll. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud.:crazy:

 

[UKGuy]

I reckon Patsy at least knew that a package wrapped with FAO Scwartz paper would be for the little kids and not for , say, John or Nedra. Haven't you ever run out of gift tags when you were wrapping a lot of presents at once? Seems to me like Patsy was extremely busy that Christmas. Maybe she ran out and didn't get any new ones yet but she could at least get them wrapped while she was on a roll. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud.:crazy:

trixie,
Dont you get the drift of your own thinking out loud. then. How come if Patsy knew which gift was which, irrespective of whether gift-tags were allocated, did she need to re-open gifts to find the one containing a tube of bloomingdales panties?


.

 

[DeeDee249]

trixie,
Dont you get the drift of your own thinking out loud. then. How come if Patsy knew which gift was which, irrespective of whether gift-tags were allocated, did she need to re-open gifts to find the one containing a tube of bloomingdales panties?


.

She needed to re-open the box to get the panties out. If the boxes were tagged, they only needed to open Jenny's gifts. If not, then boxes would be opened till the panties were found. I do not think they ever were placed in JBR's panty drawer. She had her own set. That explains why, when LE removed ALL of JBR's panties (that they could find, anyway) there were no other size 12s. The only explanation that makes sense to me is that the remaining pairs were taken out that night by the Rs when they left the house unsearched OR were removed by Aunt P the next day, having been told exactly what to get and where it was. Yes, that golf bag was SO important ti have the day after your daughter is murdered in the middle of a Colorado winter. Lots of good golf weather, right? Of course, this from a millionaire who could easily have bought a dozen golf bags filled with the best clubs available.

 

[Shanny]

PMPT Page 240

"The CBI had already determined that the stain on JonBenet's underpants-which appeared to be blood and turned out indeed to be blood-was not solely hers. A DlS80 DNA test showed that the stain came from at least two different sources.* [* A DlS80 test is a PCR-based test that measures the genetic marker known as DlS80 on the DNA strand.] After receiving the report, the police contacted the parents of JonBenet's playmates to see if any of the children had ever exchanged clothes with her. Priscilla White said she could not remember her daughter, Daphne, trading clothes with JonBenet, but Daphne told Detectives Arndt and Harmer that she and JonBenet sometimes wore each other's clothes. During their interviews, the police were told that Fleet White had sometimes changed JonBenet's panties.

 

[DeeDee249]

LOL! I know I know! Frustrating isn't it? I think Patsy thought everybody was as dumb as she was.
But I'm going to throw this out to you DeeDee just is case you thought your frustration was over tonight. lol! WHAT IF.......the gifts really were not tagged with names so Patsy didn't know which gifts were Burkes birthday presents and which were Christmas presents? Ok I'm running away from you now................!:crazy:

We are not talking about dozens of gifts here. There were likely a few boxes. Christmas was over, most of the wrapped gifts that were purchased were opened that day. I also don't think LE really did check to see if the ripped open paper had name tags. They noted "Partially (un)wrapped gifts" and that was that. So, it really isn't much of an issue whether the gifts were tagged or not.

 

[UKGuy]

She needed to re-open the box to get the panties out. If the boxes were tagged, they only needed to open Jenny's gifts. If not, then boxes would be opened till the panties were found. I do not think they ever were placed in JBR's panty drawer. She had her own set. That explains why, when LE removed ALL of JBR's panties (that they could find, anyway) there were no other size 12s. The only explanation that makes sense to me is that the remaining pairs were taken out that night by the Rs when they left the house unsearched OR were removed by Aunt P the next day, having been told exactly what to get and where it was. Yes, that golf bag was SO important ti have the day after your daughter is murdered in the middle of a Colorado winter. Lots of good golf weather, right? Of course, this from a millionaire who could easily have bought a dozen golf bags filled with the best clubs available.

DeeDee249

She needed to re-open the box to get the panties out. If the boxes were tagged, they only needed to open Jenny's gifts. If not, then boxes would be opened till the panties were found.

So when Patsy initially wrapped the gifts, irrespective of JonBenet's death, when she returned at a later date, does this mean she would have to re-open the gifts to decide to whom she should send them, or were they only partially wrapped to solve this problem?

My point is that both tagged and untagged gifts do not explain the evidence.

 

[UKGuy]

We are not talking about dozens of gifts here. There were likely a few boxes. Christmas was over, most of the wrapped gifts that were purchased were opened that day. I also don't think LE really did check to see if the ripped open paper had name tags. They noted "Partially (un)wrapped gifts" and that was that. So, it really isn't much of an issue whether the gifts were tagged or not.

DeeDee249,
If the LE noted "Partially wrapped gifts" then this would explain the evidence. Who started this unwrapped gifts as a fact then? It would also explain how someone other than Patsy would find them.

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee249

So when Patsy initially wrapped the gifts, irrespective of JonBenet's death, when she returned at a later date, does this mean she would have to re-open the gifts to decide to whom she should send them, or were they only partially wrapped to solve this problem?

My point is that both tagged and untagged gifts do not explain the evidence.

They can both explain the evidence. Tagged gifts certainly do. But even untagged gifts fit the evidence IF PR knew which paper she used for Jenny. When I wrap family Christmas gifts, I use different paper for different people; I don't always have to tag them. My daughter, grandson, etc. each have special paper. And most people use cute kids' paper- which is usually gender-specific. I am not stating as fact that PR did this- but IF she did, it can explain that she had an idea where the panties were, even if the boxes were not tagged.

 

[UKGuy]

They can both explain the evidence. Tagged gifts certainly do. But even untagged gifts fir the evidence IF PR knew which paper she used for Jenny. When I wrap family Christmas gifts, I use different paper for different people; I don't always have to tag them. My daughter, grandson, etc. each have special paper. And most people use cute kids' paper- which is usually gender-specific. I am not stating as fact that PR did this- but IF she did, it can explain that she had an idea where the panties were, even if the boxes were not tagged.

DeeDee249,
Sure Patsy may have done things as you suggest, but partially wrapped gifts sounds a more coherent explanation for both the finding of the size-12's and the disposition of the actual evidence.

If the gifts are partially wrapped then if they have tags or not does not matter, then anyone can find the size-12's, no special knowledge is required. It appears untagged gifts requires the gifts to be opened until the size-12's are found, whereas the tagged gifts should allow Patsy to open the correct gift with little error. But the evidence reveals the former state, which yields the contradiction of Patsy wrapping gifts and not marking them with any indentification, thus forcing her at a later date to re-open the gifts so she can then gift-tag or allocate them to the correct person.



Occam concludes they were partially wrapped the other explanations multiply objects beyond necessity.