Why? What was the motive?

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Thanks Dena, that was a very profound statement.:)

When you say possessions, you mean like a car. If you drive a cool sporty car then of course you feel hot. But if you are driving around in a Yugo then you don't feel so hot . Bad comparison but I am starting to understand now.
No, that is a good comparison.

Sweet young boys are the reflection of a sweet young mother. My ouwn sister left one of her kids and took the older when she left. The older one was more like a sister to her way of thinking - kept her young, while the younger one was a burden and a reminder of her age. Twisted but true. Sadly not all parents a capable of love.
 
No, that is a good comparison.

Sweet young boys are the reflection of a sweet young mother. My ouwn sister left one of her kids and took the older when she left. The older one was more like a sister to her way of thinking - kept her young, while the younger one was a burden and a reminder of her age. Twisted but true. Sadly not all parents a capable of love.

thank you Rino, I was afraid I was off base on that one. Do you think your sister took the older one because she loved that one as you are suppose to and left the other, not necessarily because she did not have love for the younger child but loved the way you love your nieces/cousins etc? I am trying to understand how a parent could actually love one child more than the other(s).

It would def. go along the lines of why Darlie didn't harm the baby. He was too little to have developed a distinguishable personality, so therefore she loved him because his view of her was in no way distorted unlike the two boys that have been with her for over 5 years and seen her rage and so forth. I hope that made sense.
 
good posts,all of them.I also think she had an "I brought you into this world (IOW-you are my possession) and therefore I have the right to take you out of it" kind of attitude.
 
good posts,all of them.I also think she had an "I brought you into this world (IOW-you are my possession) and therefore I have the right to take you out of it" kind of attitude.

Okay, what does IOW stand for. My brain can't figure it out LOL:p

I heard my dad and mother say this as my brothers and I were growing up but I always took it as a cute little "saying".
 
Uh DOH Wendy!!! After I posted my previous I figured it means in other words.... can't wait till kids are older so they can keep me up to date with this lingo....lol
 
Hey Missy - I am open to a healthy discussion. AND I would be the first to own up IF it was proven that Darlie is innocent. I am not afraid of admitting that I am wrong when discovered. All I am saying is that there was no proof whatsoever of an intruder entering that home on 6/6/96. NO footprints or fingerprints and no DNA. I am all for testing the pubic hair. Do I believe it will prove her innocence, NO. But go ahead and test it.

Please do not take my posts as though you are not welcome. This is a debate. It would be so boring here if everyone agreed with each other. What kind of debate would be left?

Like I said before I am interested in your proof of her innocence.:)


ok here goes.....these are the reasons that I believe she is innocent or at least evidence that I have researched that points out some interesting issues:

1. The transcripts (which I have read) when Sandra Halsey was transcribing failed to complete transcripts on time, despite being granted extensions,claimed to the Dallas Morning News she nearly had a breakdown during the preperation of the transcripts. those transcripts had to be reconstructed by Susan Simmons by audiotapes. Even though these were accepted by Judge Francis, it was deemed that the originals were seriously flawed,and as a result Ms. Halsey was stripped of her certification by the Court Reporters Certification Board. Even though the reconstructed ones were accepted the Court of Criminal Appeals found that there were 2 volumes overlooked. So I question at least that partial of the transcripts due to the inconsistancies. The prosecuter's say that it was accurate and valid, but Ms. Routiers attorneys claim that it was illegal and no one can vouch for the completeness of the audiotapes. Ms. Halsey admitted to falsifying records to hide her mistakes, which there were 10's of thousands reported errors in the transcript(other then typos).The court refused to prosecute her despite that the state paid her 30,000 for the the transcript and then she even sold several copies to the media. Her behavior delayed the appeal for nearly 2 years and resulted in 6 hearings that were unnecessary.


2. There also is no evidence to prove that the bloody fingerprints belong to Darlie, Darren, or the boys. There was the one on the living room table, where the murders occured, 2 separate prints from the utility room door, none of which have been DNA tested and proven to be Darlie's or darren's. This is one piece of evidence that Darlie has requested to be tested several times and Judge Francis has denied, denied,denied. Why? That is a key piece of evidence that very well puts an intruder at the crime scene.

3. I understand that the pubic hairs and the other limb hairs that were found very well could have been transferred in another way, but where none of these hairs match any of the Routier's that also puts someone else in the house that night. It certainly can't be excluded. Again another piece of evidence that has been requested by darlie to be tested and it has also been denied. Anything that could be tested should be due to the fact that now a days there are definitley more sophisticated tests. So why keep denying the tests? It could shed some light on her guilt or innocence.

4. The crime scene was severely contaminated and I say this because it states that crime scene protocol was disregarded, at least 20 paramedics and police officers trampled all through the house before it was secured, Key evidence was moved, blood was stepped on all over the place,multiple bloody items were rolled up and placed in the same bags and the blood was still wet, which could tamper with testing and come out with results that show blood from either Darlie or the children on items that it may never have been on in the first place or "mixed" blood that may never have been mixed until put into the bags still wet, bloody towels were left behind, the vacuum cleaner WAS moved all over the place, and the pillow Darlie was lying on disappeared and reappeared throughout the collection of the crime scene photos. The reason this is so important is because the whereabouts of these items that were moved around were also used against Darlie for "staging the crime scene".

5. The case of the "missing" knife....there was only one knife recovered which we all know was the one from the kitchen, but the DR's that performed the autopsies(Janice Townsend-Parchman & Joni McClain) testified that the large butcher knife "could have" inflicted the wounds on both boys, but what they failed to say was that Devon's blood was NOT found on this knife. That sets up reasonable doubt that there was more thenone knife used and to me that also puts an intruder at the scene and would explain how the screen was cut from the OUTSIDE not the inside and why there was only the one knife found....someone must have taken it with them.

6.Key evidence was withheld from the jury......there were approx. 1,000 photos taken and the defense only had access to about 400. Why not show them all? Something that the prosecutor didn't want the jury to see? The prosecution claims this isn't true, but it still is a fact that the jury never saw the photos of darlies extensive wounds and bruising.

7. I do have a theory about the issue that comes up about why the boys died and she was left alive....she was knocked out for who knows how long and so IMO the intruder could have thought that Darlie was already dead. It's pretty simple, but I see that come up a lot in other posts.

8.The timeline is impossible because according to the states own "expert" witness Damon was still alive when the paramedics got there and said that he couldn't have lived any longer then 9 minutes, the 911 call lasted for 5 min. 44 sec., Darlie was on the phone the whole time, then the paramedics were delayed by the cops for 2 minutes while the house was being inspected before they were allowed to come in which gave Darlie 1 min. and 16 sec. to inflict her wounds,stage the crime scene, plant the sock with the blood and the saliva on it 75 yards away from the house. Seems like she would have pulled something out of Houdini's book in order to do that!

9. In may of 2000, Charles Linch, which was the states key expert witness was committed to a mental hospital and heavily medicated because he was a danger to himself and others. This info was kept from the jury and the defense team. Mr Linch has stated that he performed work on this case that he was NOT qualified to do. To me that means that his credibility is pretty much shot.

10. All family members were listed as a witness and the rule was invoked. That means that no one but Darlie was in the courtroom to assist the attorney's on how to rebut false testimony. The attorney's never knew what was false until after the trial was over and the family reviewed the transcripts.....the interpretation of the gravesite, Darren being in the front yard when the first cop arrived when he was in the house the whole time(it's on the 911 tape)so who was the man that was able to fool the cops in to thinking that was Darren?, the nurses testimony( about the bruising), most of the witnesses were never called for the sole purpose to restrict the jury from hearing testimony that would have assisted the defense.

11. Investigator Jimmy Patterson should not have been assigned to this case because his son was a potential suspect. His son owned a car that matched neighbors descriptions and he was also a defendant in a drug related drive by shooting, which he was convicted for. Another murder was commited in the same neighborhood in the same week, but this info was NOT given to the media and the case was sealed until recent times and is still unsolved. There was also no follow up on what the neighbors stated or what darlie stated when there were witnesses that saw a man and the car that matched the description fleeing the scene....who knows if it was the investigators son or not....point is it was never followed up on and it wasn't just Darlie that gave the description.

I could go on and on, but here are some of the reasons I believe Darlie is innocent. I think that there is a lot of evidence that shows that it is not an open and shut case.....there is a hell of a lot of doubt and for me it points to her innocence.[/QUOTE]

Oh I am very disappointed. You haven't even touched on the evidence that proves Darlie is the killer. All this nonsense has been refuted long ago.

Still waiting for that dna test that exonerates MacDonald.
 
Well as you know I am from Canada and are not that well versed in the Death Penalty or Texas. But I do know that Texas is T for tough. There has not been a mercy granted in Texas for a death row inmate since the 1970 and Texas leads the US in executions. They don't say: Don't mess with Texas for no reason. They seem to be serious about their executions.

But on the other hand Karla Faye Tucker was the first women to die by execution in Texas since 1863. I do feel that just because a women and mother committed a terrible crime, she should not be spared the death penalty as crime and murder is an equal gender crime.

Karla even "turned" to god, she did have her critics, some felt it was real others felt it was a ploy in an attempt at mercy. In the end, Karla like Darlie will answer to a higher power for what they did.

But I do know that Darlie does not deserve any Mercy, and I doubt pressure will result in a reversal of the death penalty especially in TEXAS.

I'm from Canada as well Cyber and I am not a proponet of the DP. However, I do believe that Darlie will be executed. She has shown not one shred of remorse for those children...it's all about her all the time. She could have used mitigating circumstances and probably received a life sentence but she tried to brazen it out and stick with her claim of innocence despite the evidence against her.

Karla at least had remorse for what she had done and yes I believe she has been forgiven.
 
People with her personality disorders especially a specific disorder will always blame others and never tell the truth. Darlie never expected to be caught, never expected to be beleived, never expected to be held responsible and accountable. People will know that she is the liar that she is if she presented circumstances for mitigation.
 
People with her personality disorders especially a specific disorder will always blame others and never tell the truth. Darlie never expected to be caught, never expected to be beleived, never expected to be held responsible and accountable. People will know that she is the liar that she is if she presented circumstances for mitigation.

thats a pretty in general statement to make about personality disorders cyber, are you a psychitrist or is that your opinion? That is so not true about people with those kinds of disorders and that is actually offensive to a lot of the people with mental diabilities. Do you have credentials to back that up as FACT? You are generalizing something that I don't quite know you know much about, maybe because of your opinion on Darlie, but that really wasn't very nice to say. There are a lot of people out there that have those kinds of disorders and they are not all liars.
 
in your opinion, not mine and these are facts even if you dont like them. as for macdonald i will not comment on that because no matter what I say and this is Darlie's site you will bash that too.
 
thats a pretty in general statement to make about personality disorders cyber, are you a psychitrist or is that your opinion? That is so not true about people with those kinds of disorders and that is actually offensive to a lot of the people with mental diabilities. Do you have credentials to back that up as FACT? You are generalizing something that I don't quite know you know much about, maybe because of your opinion on Darlie, but that really wasn't very nice to say. There are a lot of people out there that have those kinds of disorders and they are not all liars.

nice or not,I think Cyber is RIGHT ON;I have lived w. someone like this,not that he ever did anything illegal,but I know about the 'blame games' and not ever taking any responsibility for themselves,the world rest on everyone else's shoulders to them...and lying comes easy,(yes some ppl are fooled,hopefully not for long,but theses types tend to be good at lying),and they can be very manipulative and great at game playing,and twisting things around to where it is the OP's fault.you have not LIVED until you have seen this kind of person in action,and I not only saw it,I lived with it.It's UNREAL.
don't feel too awful sorry for mental ppl,bc I can tell you,they can be very manipulative and they can know a heck of a lot more about what's going on than they want you to think.I'm not being hard on them,that's just the reality of it.
 
I did not say mental illness which is a chemical imbalance. I said personality disorder. Personality disorder have no basis in mental illness, it is a character disorder, defect, and people with personality disorder can make another persons life a living H**l and then some.

I did not mean to offend anyone with a genuine chemical imbalance, as that is a physical disorder which is beyond their control. It can be treated with meds and other therapy.

But a person with a personality disorder feels that there is nothing wrong with what they do. They do not see themselves a having a problem, they do not seek help.

Scott Peterson is a fine example of someone with a personality disorder. He is not mentally ill, just very disturbed. Darlie has in my opinion as personality disorder.
 
thats a pretty in general statement to make about personality disorders cyber, are you a psychitrist or is that your opinion? That is so not true about people with those kinds of disorders and that is actually offensive to a lot of the people with mental diabilities. Do you have credentials to back that up as FACT? You are generalizing something that I don't quite know you know much about, maybe because of your opinion on Darlie, but that really wasn't very nice to say. There are a lot of people out there that have those kinds of disorders and they are not all liars.

Darlie is a pathological liar Missi and a narcissist. Anyone who could sit there and claim that their child walked and talked with six stab wounds in his back, into his organs... is a true psychopath. Lying with a straight face in the face of the evidence that contradicts her lies.

Her celebration at the graves that day is another indication of a personality disorder....histrionic...playing to the cameras. She was celebrating her burden in life being lifted.
 
nice or not,I think Cyber is RIGHT ON;I have lived w. someone like this,not that he ever did anything illegal,but I know about the 'blame games' and not ever taking any responsibility for themselves,the world rest on everyone else's shoulders to them...and lying comes easy,(yes some ppl are fooled,hopefully not for long,but theses types tend to be good at lying),and they can be very manipulative and great at game playing,and twisting things around to where it is the OP's fault.you have not LIVED until you have seen this kind of person in action,and I not only saw it,I lived with it.It's UNREAL.
don't feel too awful sorry for mental ppl,bc I can tell you,they can be very manipulative and they can know a heck of a lot more about what's going on than they want you to think.I'm not being hard on them,that's just the reality of it.


where you aqre wrong is that I have lived with someone like that. thats why i can say what i said and not everyone that has disorders are that way. and until you suffer yourself you will never know. personal experience
 
I did not say mental illness which is a chemical imbalance. I said personality disorder. Personality disorder have no basis in mental illness, it is a character disorder, defect, and people with personality disorder can make another persons life a living H**l and then some.

I did not mean to offend anyone with a genuine chemical imbalance, as that is a physical disorder which is beyond their control. It can be treated with meds and other therapy.

But a person with a personality disorder feels that there is nothing wrong with what they do. They do not see themselves a having a problem, they do not seek help.

Scott Peterson is a fine example of someone with a personality disorder. He is not mentally ill, just very disturbed. Darlie has in my opinion as personality disorder.


according to psychiatrist that I have spoken with personality disorders are part of mental illness, you cant have a defect in your personality without it being an imbalance and that is talking to several, not just where I live now, but back east as well, they all cant be wrong. the thing is nothing has ever been proven that she was disturbed except for a small dose of PPD. A lot of woman get that, there is no history.
 
according to psychiatrist that I have spoken with personality disorders are part of mental illness, you cant have a defect in your personality without it being an imbalance and that is talking to several, not just where I live now, but back east as well, they all cant be wrong. the thing is nothing has ever been proven that she was disturbed except for a small dose of PPD. A lot of woman get that, there is no history.

personality disorders can arise from being raised dysfunctionally...and back when I took abnormal psych,it was thought some are born with an antisocial personality.I'm not sure if they still don't know for sure.But it seems the whole of the person just isn't there,for some reason,and they lack a normal concience with that type of PD.
Being raised dysfunctionally can also lead to PD's,and that can also can lead to a low emotional age or low social IQ.I have to wonder what emotional age Darlie was...she seemed to behave like a spoiled child/teenager who would stop at nothing to get her way.(and what she did is even worse than behaving like a spoiled child !)
 
White Rain and sharkeyes have posed some good questions regarding motive. Let me just clarify two things, and that is that

I don't think that Darlie and Darin literally meant what they said the evening/morning of the murders. When Darlie said, "we need to separate," I believe she meant that as a threat to get Darin to hand over the money she was seeking and I don't believe that she actually was threatening to separate. She had used that manipulative trick before. Unfortunately, I believe that Darin was so overjoyed at her offering the solution to the problem of her pestering him for money that he said, "Good, leave and don't ever come back" when he really meant, "please just give me some breathing room for awhile." Also, I unfortunately don't think that I can capture how heated the argument became, but I think it did get pretty heated.



Now, on to White Rain's first question, which appears to be if Darlie left, how did Darlie think Darin was going to be able to continue paying the mortgage. Maybe someone can clarify this, but I don't think that Darlie was independently contributing to things like paying the mortgage. She appeared to be raising the children and helping keep the books for Darin's business, but I don't believe she was contributing anything financially. In any event, I think Darin said what he said in the heat of the moment since Darlie was pressing him with that "bull-in-the-china-shop" approach and I don't know if he was thinking about what he might lose if she left for awhile. White Rain's next question is why he would stand by her after the killings if he had told her to leave. I believe in that regard that Darin had to make a snap decision once he saw the carnage and you have to remember that Darlie is very manipulative, so she probably told him, "Look what you made me do" and Darin concluded it had something to do with their recent heated argument, which meant he was partly responsible. I have heard a lot of people say, "I wouldn't stand by my spouse after something like that," but the Routiers don't appear to think about long-term consequences; rather, they seem to live in the moment and so I believe that Darin quickly decided to cover up the matter. Too, as I have indicated, he may have said that he wanted her to leave for ever, because he was stressed at the moment he said that, but I believe that he really wanted her off of his back for awhile so that he could obtain some more money. I should add, White Rain, that I did post some other material in regard to motive last year, but in the essay I just wrote, I tried to sharpen things up just a bit by focusing solely on motive, explaining why it is better to use memory than logic, and explaining why the killings were not for money even though money as a motive is a very common assumption.



Now, on to some questions posed by sharkeyes. The first question is whether Darlie decided right after the argument to kill the boys or whether she thought it over and then committed the killings. I think the argument was quite heated, Darlie and Darin said what they said, and Darlie sat and stewed about it, and what it meant, for awhile and became more and more angry at the boys because she was going back to her impoverished childhood while they got to be permanent residents of Nintendo House, which she helped create. I don't think it was a long time, but I think maybe it was 30 minutes to an hour. I think she started to panic when she thought about how she was not going back to the land of $12,000 drapes, $5,000 breast implants, $900 bird baths, and then thought about the boys getting to stay at the house. The second question is about Darlie's relationship with her mother. I think Darlie's mother loved Darlie growing up and Darlie loved her mother, and I think they have the same relationship now. Too, I don't want to suggest that Darlie was angry with her mother because Darlie would have to return to live with her mother. I think the glaring difference between Darlie and the two boys is the socioeconomic circumstances under which the childhoods occurred. Part of what makes me say that is that I have known three or four people who have grown up in rough financial circumstances and would talk about it, and I have always noticed a fierce determination never to return to those circumstances. Darlie did not have a choice because she relied largely on Darin to pull her out of those circumstances and I just don't think she was prepared for returning to them; indeed, I don't think she thought she would ever return. But, I do think they still love each other despite all that has happened.
 
I think the glaring difference between Darlie and the two boys is the socioeconomic circumstances under which the childhoods occurred...

Would it be a fair statement that Darlie's mindset was "there's no way you spoiled brats are living in luxury while I struggle" -and- that she was envious of Devon and Damon?
 
Sharkeyes has asked whether it would be a fair statement to say that Darlie's mindset at the time of the killings
was that there was no way that the two boys were going to live in luxury while she struggled and that she was
envious of Devon and Damon. I believe that is part of it, although I don't know that I would use the word "envy" so
much as I would use the word "jealous." However, I think what really got Darlie mad was the fact that she was, in
effect, the co-creator of Nintendo House, so she hardly could have thought it was fair that she would have to leave
to return to her childhood, which involved much tougher financial circumstances and more turmoil. I also believe what
made her mad was that the two boys were getting to stay at Nintendo House without having to face a decision about
whether that is where they wanted to live while she was being forced out, which was a decision over which she had
no control because she offered to separate from Darin, if only to get him to fork over money, and he took her up on the

offer. I think that their getting to live in perceived luxury, the perceived unfairness of them getting to stay there, and the

fact that she had little control over her ouster led to the brief, but unfortunately, effective attack that resulted on them.
 
Ok, let me see if I can make my question a little clearer, and I don't mean this is a rude way.

You seem as if you think that Darlie was thinking she may have to leave, and go back to her old not-so-wealthy lifestyle, while Darrin and the boys remained in the home.
Ok, I know Darlie did not contribute financially to the household...
BUT apparently they were under extreme financial troubles...the house the boat, the jag. Most accounts put them as being behind on two mortgage payments. Ok, say she moves out...what would make her think Darrin would find the money to keep himself and the boys in the house? What would make her think that they too wouldn't have to find a smaller house/apt. to live in?
Also with property of married people being 50/50 she could have just as easily stayed in the house with the boys and asked Darrin to leave. She could have divorced him and got a HUGE chunk in child support for 3 kids.
 

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