Why? What was the motive?

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If Darin hired someone to come in and kill Darlie, why isn't she dead? There was still plenty of time to kill her after the boys died. And, while I don't think there is any harm in you speculating that Darin did hire someone, there needs to be proof of it and there is none.

I don't believe ineffective counsel is mentioned in the appellate briefs, but I may be wrong. I think they'll have a damn hard time proving ineffective counsel, considering they see what the rest of the death row population has had to deal with in terms of defense attorneys, but you're entitled to your opinion on this. I still am trying to get you to understand that a defense attorney is only as good as his client will allow him to be and all of that pretty much went out the window when Darlie and Darin decided to get on the witness stand. By the time they were done testifying, the dam had broken and there was no getting the floodgates of lies closed after that.
I don't believe Darin hired someone to "come in and kill Darlie." I believe Darin might have hired someone to rob the house.

Instead of robbing the house, they got into a stuggle w/ Darlie, the kids woke up, were murdered.....etc. Pure speculation on my part. However, it makes as much sense to me as Darlie or Darin murdering them.
 
I don't believe Darin hired someone to "come in and kill Darlie." I believe Darin might have hired someone to rob the house.

Instead of robbing the house, they got into a stuggle w/ Darlie, the kids woke up, were murdered.....etc. Pure speculation on my part. However, it makes as much sense to me as Darlie or Darin murdering them.

LMAO....not being rude, but am really LMAO here....
If Darin "hired" someone to rob the house why not tell Darlie? Seems like she cared more about money than he did. And why "hire" someone to rob the house when they'd all be home? Why not when they were all away, like in the next week or so when they were going to Pennsylvania?
Also, WHY murder the kids? HOW much of a description could they give honestly?
 
I don't believe Darin hired someone to "come in and kill Darlie." I believe Darin might have hired someone to rob the house.

Instead of robbing the house, they got into a stuggle w/ Darlie, the kids woke up, were murdered.....etc. Pure speculation on my part. However, it makes as much sense to me as Darlie or Darin murdering them.

Well we know that isn't possible.
 
I don't believe Darin hired someone to "come in and kill Darlie." I believe Darin might have hired someone to rob the house.

Instead of robbing the house, they got into a stuggle w/ Darlie, the kids woke up, were murdered.....etc. Pure speculation on my part. However, it makes as much sense to me as Darlie or Darin murdering them.

I personally don't see it. If he was struggling with Darlie, the only adult in the room, when he saw the children waking up, so he left off attacking Darlie, the adult, to go stab the children? That scenario doesn't seem correct somehow. I'm sorry. I just can't see it.

Also, the blood of the boys on the back of her nightshirt wasn't put there by an intruder. It got there when the knife in her hand was drawn back over her shoulder again and again depositing flying blood on her back as she was stabbing the bodies of her babies. That's the way I see it anyway. ashley
 
Jeana, Cyber, cami, WhiteRain, molly, ashley...... :truce:

:bang:I can't explain it! I know it doesn't make sense. Just as Darlie "snapping" or doing it for attention or whatever reasons some believe she did it, doesn't make sense to me. Murder rarely makes sense.

I've been reading posts by the first 3 of you for a few years now. You are all top-notch, respected sleuthers in my book. I agree with each of you probably 98% of the time.

To the last 3 whom I don't know that well, let me say I don't consider myself to be a "Darlie supporter." I don't know her, her family, or anyone involved with the case in any way. When the Routier children were murdered, I was going through a horrible ordeal with my mother having been murdered just a couple weeks before. That's the only direct experience I have with our justice system. I am a staunch death penalty supporter and tend to lean heavily on the side of the prosecution.

Darlie had been on death row several years when I read about her case and found a couple of message boards that were discussing it. I was referred to the site with the transcripts. I didn't read them all, I skipped around reading certain parts I was interested in at the time. One thing stood out for me no matter what part I was reading, and that was Mulder's dismal attention to his client, her case, his courtroom demeanor (his effect on the judge)....it really blew my mind. Now, reading the opinions of other's here at Websleuths, it must just be me. Others still hold Mulder in the highest regard, which leaves me incredulous, but I have no other cases to reference his work to. Just this one, and I can't think of another case were the defense did such a sadly poor job.

There are too many unanswered questions, unexplored evidence, and IMO reasonable possibilities, that I don't see how this conviction stands.
 
I personally don't see it. If he was struggling with Darlie, the only adult in the room, when he saw the children waking up, so he left off attacking Darlie, the adult, to go stab the children? That scenario doesn't seem correct somehow. I'm sorry. I just can't see it.

Also, the blood of the boys on the back of her nightshirt wasn't put there by an intruder. It got there when the knife in her hand was drawn back over her shoulder again and again depositing flying blood on her back as she was stabbing the bodies of her babies. That's the way I see it anyway. ashley

Good points. In addition, where is this person's DNA? Bloody foot prints? And, wouldn't have Darlies screams sent Darin downstairs and two adults would be trying to keep him from continuing to stab the children? But it still comes down to the blood evidence and the DNA. In an attack that violent, he would have left some things of his person - hair, fibers, prints, . . . something! AND, how did the boys blood come to be on the back of her shirt in the pattern it was discovered, and proven beyond a doubt to be, cast off blood from her hand being drawn back after stabbing? It would certainly be a shrewd person to have set her up like that and still leave nothing of his behind.
 
To Accordn2me:

It seems you are on the fence about some things regarding Darlie. That is the sign of a "thinking" person, someone who is digging for the truth. I salute you. I once was there on several cases. Not this one though.

We agree on the death penalty. But what can I say? I'm from Texas. We champion the death penalty here, right or wrong. That said, I would be the first one on Darlie's bandwagon if I thought she was innocent.

I sort of agree with you on Mulder except that he wasn't given much to work with. In trial one must play the hand they are dealt. Mulder didn't get much to work with, in my opinion. In other words, Darlie nor Darin helped him out on the stand. They were too honed in on "telling our side of it", which the jury didn't believe.

I honestly believe the jury was fair-minded and wanted to give Darlie the benefit of the doubt. But after all was said and done they saw through her lies on the stand, and there was nothing Mulder could do about that but agitate the judge.

Wasapi gave a good post on this case a few posts back. I think she/he hit the nail on the head. There is no getting around the cast off blood on Darlie's night shirt. That is pretty much the smoking gun if there is one in this case. ashley
 
Absolutely. Darlie and her family CHOSE Mulder if I recall correctly. Mulder wanted to go with a scenario implicating Darin or at least suggesting that, in order to point out a SODDI defense. Darlie was adamant and said no. Mulder then was left with no other reasonable defense avenues because Darlie and the family were calling the shots. A Defense Attorney can only do so much with a case if the client is insisting on testifying, (in their belief that the jury will believe them); if the client insists on a specific defense, even against the advice of the attorney. All the attorney is left with is preserving the record for appeal in whatever manner they can given the circumstances.

And what attorney is going to be able to explain adequately the 16 different versions the client gave? I don't hold Mulder in high regard, but he's not the worst attorney that's ever defended a client such as Darlie. There are always irritations between Judges and defense attorneys and many times the public doesn't know that there is a history outside or inside the courtroom between them. (Some defense attorneys attitudes irritate the heck out of me - Specter case in particular!!!)

I think it would be difficult for any Defense Attorney to explain away forensics of the blood on Darlie.
 
http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/writ.php

Blood Spatter on Petitioner’s Victoria’s Secret Nightshirt:
Tom Bevel testified that blood spatter on the back of the Victoria’s Secret nightshirt that Petitioner wore on the morning of June 6, 1996 was consistent with “cast off” stains that would have been deposited when she brought the knife overhead in a stabbing motion:
Taking a knife that was the same diameter of the knife in question, I just simply, in this case I went down to my knee after placing a clean T-shirt on my body, put blood on the knife, on both sides, again, held it up and allowed it to just simply stop its dripping . . . . And then just simply did a motion such at this, I think on the first time I did it with two swings, if you would, without adding any additional blood, to see if in fact we get the blood that would be on the back that would be consistent in size, direction, location as the blood in question on the T-shirt [worn by Petitioner on the night of the attack].
C.R.R. Vol. 39, p. 37:10-38:1. He explained the significance of his findings to the jury as:
A. I was able, multiple times, to get bloodstains that were the same size, location, with the long axis up and down in that area and on other areas of the back of the [test] shirt.
C.R.R. Vol. 39, p. 38:3-6.


. . . .
[what is the explanation for the blood stains on the back of the nightshirt,] the most consistent way it could happen is when the stabbing motion comes up and the knife is over the shoulder . . . . That tells you that she was stabbing, and Devon’s blood winds up on her back. It’s not going to wind up there if she is laying on the couch as a man wrestles at her neck.
C.R.R. Vol. 47, pp. 37:25-38.23, Vol. 47, pp. 16-24, Vol. 46 pp. 10-16.
As the State pointed out to the jury, defense counsel presented no scientific evidence to rebut the physical indications of a staged crime scene:
You know, here is the bottom line on Tom Bevel. You know out there at SWIFS there is another expert, Terry Labor. He is the DNA blood spatter expert who went out there on behalf of the defendant also, along with Bart Epstein. And if they want to quarrel with Tom Bevel and tell you that he is wrong, and that he is a witch doctor of some sort, where is Terry Labor then? Where is their blood spatter expert? Don’t you know that if he had any criticism of the opinions rendered by Tom Bevel, that just like Bart Epstein, you would see them right up here, and he would be detailing for you what those criticisms are. But he is not here either, is he? And for a very good reason.
C.R.R. Vol. 46, pp. 151:17-152:4, 153:3-154:4. In fact, in October 1996 defense counsel was aware of contrary evidence. But the jury never heard that evidence either.


Credible Alternative Explanations for the Physical Evidence at the Crime Scene


The jury never heard from forensic experts Terry Laber and Barton Epstein, who were retained by Petitioner’s appointed counsel – both of whom were identified by name in the State’s closing arguments as witnesses the defense never called to rebut Linch and Bevel’s testimony. Laber and Epstein had reached conclusions contrary to the State’s experts before trial that could have been presented to the jury in Petitioner’s defense. Substitute defense counsel, who was conflicted because of an agreement not to implicate Darin Routier (see Routier Aff. ¶ 7) , decided not to use the exculpatory evidence or to conduct further scientific tests – at a time when he was not familiar with the facts of the case. At the time they were instructed to stop working on the case, Laber and Epstein had conducted a number of scientific tests on the physical evidence about which Linch and Bevel had testified at trial and had recommended additional testing on other physical evidence. Laber and Epstein’s conclusions in October 1996 were that the physical evidence did not suggest a staged crime scene, which directly contradicted the testimony of Linch and Bevel. See generally Terry L. Laber Affidavit (“Laber Aff.”).


Blood Spatter on Victoria’s Secret Nightshirt:
Laber and Epstein concluded that Petitioner’s nightshirt indicated only minimal areas of blood spatter and that the critical areas of spatter were never subjected to genetic testing. Bevel explained to the jury that one explanation for the absence of blood spatter was that Damon’s and Devon’s blood was covered by direct hits of Petitioner’s blood from her self-inflicted wounds. In Laber’s expert opinion, that interpretation requires an extremely unlikely sequence of events. Laber and Epstein recommended that the critical areas of blood staining be tested in October 1996. See Laber Aff. ¶ 6. Conflicted defense counsel, however, ignored that advice, and the jury never heard evidence from such testing.
 
Not to rain on a person's parade, but this is called the "battle" of the experts. One expert has one opinion and the other another opinion.

You cannot go back and press the "undo" button, you can't go back and say: Well can we test this now, can we do this now when we did not do it then.

Unless you "contest" evidence at trial it is deemed to be accurate without challenge. As you note this is from 2002, that is five years ago. We are now I think at another stage of the appeals.

You don't "redo" trials because opps, I did not do this or that. Can you imagine..........

Now we are on to the DNA testing. By the way, lawyers don't discount "contrary" evidence unless there is a reason. They cannot ignore "evidence" that may prove their client innocent. Why would they want to do that, their job is to "defend" their client, to prove innocence, to win the freedom for a person "unjustly" on trial, especially in a death penalty case of this high profile.

So I am all for the "initial" fact finding in the original trial that was not disputed and was put into and on record as factual.

I really don't think, unless there is "new" evidence that is "newly" discovered that "could" not have been discovered at trial, that Darlie's appeals will hold value.

Any item from the "justicefordarlie" website is suspect. After all Darlie and her family are still looking for the "intruder", just like O.J. is "still looking" for the person who killed his ex wife and Ron Goldman. The only difference is that Darlie, unlike O.J. is where she belongs.

Neither one of them is "going" to find the real killer, but each morning they can look in the mirror to "look at the real killer".

The thing that I find most "interesting" about Darlie's story, is that little ole Darlie, "chased" after this big ole intruder dressed in black, with a knife in his hand and he ran(while he was armed) from little ole Darlie after he has just murdered two kids in cold blood. He must have been so scared of little ole Darlie that he "just happen" to drop the murder weapon where little ole Darlie could pick it up. Wow this intruder must have been a coward to run from a women, who was unarmed, especially after killing two kids. Please, only in the imagination of Darlie.

Plus, from the area where Darlie claimed the knife had been dropped, there were no "blood patterns" that indicated that the knife had been dropped and a pattern on the floor emerged. Blood patterns are VERY specific.

What about Darlie giving an interview saying that the two boys "lived" a full life. Sure all 5 and 6 years of their short life. I would say that a person who dies of old age lived a full life. Not children murdered while they slept, who were 5 an 6 years old.

You have to look at everything, all of the evidence from the dog to the blood to the stories to the affect of Darlie to get the whole picture, not just to look at bits and pieces that MAY prove what you want it to prove.

It is like you suspect your hubby of cheating, so you discount, the lipstick on the color, the smell of another women's perfume, the "late" nights at the office, the phone number and e-mails of another women on his cell phone, but hold on to the "one night" you phoned him at his office, and he was there and answered the phone, but the twenty times before that when he was "working" late you could not reach him.

Therefore you determine that he is and was not having an affair because you were able to reach him on the phone that one time, discounting all of the other evidence that points to a contrary conclusion.

You are not taking into evidence ALL of the facts, just facts that you want to support your conclusion. That would be akin to this 2002 appeal.
 
Not to rain on a person's parade, but this is called the "battle" of the experts. One expert has one opinion and the other another opinion.<snipped>
There was only one side of experts at Darlie's trial...those on the side of the prosecution. Mulder "decided not to use the exculpatory evidence or to conduct further scientific tests – at a time when he was not familiar with the facts of the case."
 
snip
What about Darlie giving an interview saying that the two boys "lived" a full life. Sure all 5 and 6 years of their short life. I would say that a person who dies of old age lived a full life. Not children murdered while they slept, who were 5 an 6 years old.

SNIP
QUOTE]That statement was the other jaw dropper for me out of all the things she said. As you say, that phrase is normally attributed to someone who's lived a long life, not a child, and not someone who was murdered.
 
snip
What about Darlie giving an interview saying that the two boys "lived" a full life. Sure all 5 and 6 years of their short life. I would say that a person who dies of old age lived a full life. Not children murdered while they slept, who were 5 an 6 years old.

SNIP
QUOTE]That statement was the other jaw dropper for me out of all the things she said. As you say, that phrase is normally attributed to someone who's lived a long life, not a child, and not someone who was murdered.

Thanks, I had been trying to remember what it was she said on the tape - aside from the 'boy's biggest party in heaven' statement - that was so outrageous and so damning.

And not to nit-pick about words, but the boys really weren't "murdered while they slept." How much better it would have been if that were the case. Instead, they awoke to their mother stabbing them, and even now, thinking of their last moments of terror, pain, and confusion, is difficult to think about.

My God, she thought she had finished murdering one of her babies, but he wanted to live, he wanted to get away from her, but she caught up with him to make sure she REALLY finished him off!

Pure evil. Why is she still alive?!!!
 
No kidding why is she still alive?

To think that the boys had a "fairly" good life, at least there were no reports of physical abuse, they had food, clothing, a nice home and parents who "seemed" to love them.

Then to wake up and realize the pain and terror of the person who is and was entrusted with your care is killing you and stabbing you.

I can't imagine the horror that they felt, the pain, the fear and confusion.

Especially the one boy who was trying desperatly tying to crawl to the door to save his life.

Then we have little ole Darlie and the cult of Darlie saying: She is innocent. That just ticks me off to no end. No miscarriage of justice here, but poor little ole Darlie has never, not ever, shown any empathy for the boys, only herself.

Poor widdle, ole Darlie. Not. At least when the state executes her it will be fairly humane, certainly not the choice she made for the boys.
 
I will surely put on my shortest shorts, pop loads of bazooka joe gum in my mouth, buy up lots of silly string and go "celebrate" on top of her grave when they put this monster to death.
 

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