GUILTY WI - Apple River multiple stabbing; one teen dead, 4 other people hurt; 52 year old man arrested, July 2022

[ShadyLady]

NM isn’t a new immigrant- he’s lived here for most of his life.

Since he was 15, right? And knew 5 languages. Yet, kept his mouth shut when the boys repeatedly asked him what he was doing. And the word "go" seems pretty easy to understand. But, Miu thought he better stand his ground.

Another thing that gets me is that he continues to play the victim, and I see no remorse. Mui thinks he was completely justified in his actions and thought he could lie his way out of it. And Ariel? stood on head to protect his friend.

 

[TrinityNana]

For me, as a lifelong Wisconsinite? I would have assumed absolutely everyone on that river was drunk as heck and thus extremely unpredictable (sorry fellow Sconnies; I'm just working off of 4+ decades of personal experience here. Especially up there -- everyone's going to have had at least a few beers).
I probably would have wondered the same thing about their ages -- likely before I even approached them -- which is why I wouldn't be over there one second longer than I had to be, or at all. Drunk people are super unpredictable and these sorts of activities in the summer here during our 2.5 months of swimming weather can be FULL of absolutely objectively stupid behavior.
It does not make the boys/mens' awful behavior "OK". But also no one pointed a gun at the defendant, or said they were going to kill him or fight him or keep him from leaving or follow him to his car or whatever. In fact they were quite literally telling him to go away, if anything. Teenagers and young adults yelling random stupid crap at me -- when I've chosen to be near them, should reasonably guess/suspect they're drinking or drunk, and I have an exit -- is not in and of itself immediately a violent threat, to me.

ITA. And as no expert on it, only a year or two difference from the defendant, I immediately recognized those boys as teenagers. Full disclosure ~ I am the youngest of three older brothers and the mother of three sons, I might have a tad experience in that particular area. However, anyone paying attention to life cycles could deduce the ages, and, I would argue ~ the level of drunk ~ of those people. Even impaired, it should have been apparent. He would have done himself, his family and the World an enormous favor to have just walked away ~ and then kept walking. Imo, his ego prevented that. My heart absolutely aches for Isaac's family. Most especially his mom. Prayers lifted up for all of them.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

It doesn't seem like this was the first time this drunk gang harassed someone. They pulled together quickly and were easily emboldened to escalate the situation. That gives me the impression that this was their normal behaviour.

If they were too young to drive a car, then perhaps they were too stupid to know better. However, if they are old enough to drive a car on a busy street, then they knew better than to taunt and harass a man by publicly accusing him of criminal offences against children. If that's their idea of fun, they should have realized that one day it would stop being fun for them. If it wasn't Nicolae who stood up to them, it would be someone else.

I bet that none of those drunken, rude, aggressive men aged 17 - 24 have repeated what they did that day ... when they victimized an older, new immigrant for their amusement.

They were not children who were playing, although I did see testimony from one of the drunk, belligerent men testify that he's a child. They were adult enough to get alcohol and to get drunk, and they appeared as a coherent gang. Someone forgot to teach them manners and socialization. None of this would have happened if those drunk young men respected others.

That may well be true, but he has a strong foreign accent. He would have been perceived as a new immigrant by the drunk, belligerent, men that were publicly accusing him of a criminal offence against children.

The start of this video shows the initial interaction with NM approaching the young men.

 

[Leve]

It's so sad how many people say they would meekly obey a rowdy bunch of teens. This is what our society has become? It's ok for teens to get drunk and high and badger innocent people? To be loud and obnoxious and try to incite a mob by calling someone a pedophile? "For the culture"

The resulting fight is his fault because he didn't obey there orders?

That's why these kids have become so emboldened. Walk in with garbage bags and clean out stores, beat poor Preston Lord to death? And Yes those were the same type of "kids".

 

[Leve]

The start of this video shows the initial interaction with NM approaching the young men.

Again, this is not the initial contact.

 

[ShadyLady]

That may well be true, but he has a strong foreign accent. He would have been perceived as a new immigrant by the drunk, belligerent, men that were publicly accusing him of a criminal offence against children.

This could be why the boys did not understand what he first said to them. He said something, and acted creepy to them, so they started calling him names and told him to get away from them. And instead of leaving he quit talking. The word pedophilia is all over social media now days, so I can understand why they picked that word. They thought he would go away if they called him a terrible word. 17 is still a child in my book.

Again a key is that Miu's group had observed the teens and decided as a group not to get close to them. Yet, Miu crossed the river and decided to swim back and forth next to the boys. Eric Williams (who was in Miu's group) said he thought it a bad idea as the boys would think Miu was a predator. AND they did think that.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Again, this is not the initial contact.

Mia’s group noticed the young men tubing prior to this, but there was no contact.

 

[TrinityNana]

It's so sad how many people say they would meekly obey a rowdy bunch of teens. This is what our society has become? It's ok for teens to get drunk and high and badger innocent people? To be loud and obnoxious and try to incite a mob by calling someone a pedophile? "For the culture"

The resulting fight is his fault because he didn't obey there orders?

That's why these kids have become so emboldened. Walk in with garbage bags and clean out stores, beat poor Preston Lord to death? And Yes those were the same type of "kids".

No, walking away from drunken idiots is not 'meekly obeying'. It IS exercising good practice in 'picking your battles'. If those kids had actually blocked him from retreating while demanding that he retreat, that would have been a whole other matter. They literally told him multiple times to get away from them. He chose not to. He chose escalation over letting cooler heads prevail. Jmho.

 

[Leve]

Mia’s group noticed the young men tubing prior to this, but there was no contact.

This is the second video. In the first one he is just looking for the phone when they start verbally assaulting him. They initiated the interaction not him.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

If a man or woman came up to me in the manner NM did it would creep me out.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

This is the second video. In the first one he is just looking for the phone when they start verbally assaulting him. They initiated the interaction not him.

Do you have a link to the video you’re referring to?

 

[ShadyLady]

This is the second video. In the first one he is just looking for the phone when they start verbally assaulting him. They initiated the interaction not him.

Miu's group noticed the teens BEFORE he swam over to them. Phone was just an excuse imo. Miu knew about the kids, and had observe them. Kids did not have a clue where he came from. Per Eric Von Williams testimony.

 

[Leve]

No, walking away from drunken idiots is not 'meekly obeying'. It IS exercising good practice in 'picking your battles'. If those kids had actually blocked him from retreating while demanding that he retreat, that would have been a whole other matter. They literally told him multiple times to get away from them. He chose not to. He chose escalation over letting cooler heads prevail. Jmho.

I don't agree. They actually were pretty much surrounding him. He wanted to find a phone and his snorkel. That shouldn't end in a beat down.

So when he told them he was looking for a phone (per police reports from teens) why didn't they just say oh we haven't seen it or maybe help look? Why did these young men decide to instead try to incite a mob?

No way the teens are innocent victims in this matter, there was plenty of time and space for them to just continue on down the river. They choose to stay, harass, and in Isaac's case physically attack this man.

 

[IDK]

It's so sad how many people say they would meekly obey a rowdy bunch of teens. This is what our society has become? It's ok for teens to get drunk and high and badger innocent people? To be loud and obnoxious and try to incite a mob by calling someone a pedophile? "For the culture"

The resulting fight is his fault because he didn't obey there orders?

That's why these kids have become so emboldened. Walk in with garbage bags and clean out stores, beat poor Preston Lord to death? And Yes those were the same type of "kids".

I’m in total agreement with you. That the mob’s behaviors are considered acceptable by so many is very sad commentary on today’s culture. Of course no one deserved to be stabbed for just being an idiot. It’s the threatening behavior, surrounding NM, slapping, shoving, and pushing that brought us where we are today. IMO.

As they say, “Play stupid games, win stupid prizes”. What a tragic way to learn a very important lesson, for all involved.

PS: I agree with those who said the soundtrack alone is disturbing.

 

[bobbymkii]

OK I promise I'm done for now after this. But.

Is the thought, then, someone who's not even old enough to vote deserved to be KILLED over this? If I say something horrible basically out of the clear blue sky to somebody in a parking lot tomorrow, even when I'm not doing anything to keep them from leaving and I'm not telling them I am going to physically harm them and am, in fact, TELLING them to leave me alone, they can just blow my head off if they think I might be bigger or stronger or younger, because they're older and scared of me and insisting on staying by my car even though I just called them something awful? Over words? I mean, I've worked in large cities many times over the years. Mentally unstable people have said crazy random stuff to me when I was walking on the street. Nothing immediately physically threatening, but weird/confusing/negative. I still didn't run back and pull out a knife and stab them while they told me to go away because it hurt my feelings so much.

I completely understand the part where people are offended and upset that they were being [you all know] and saying awful things. I guess I could see someone maybe getting punched or shoved over all of this, but even then it's still supremely stupid IF FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN look at what it's gotten the defendant into. Like. I'm just completely not understanding WHAT it was about this that made it not only such that he COULD NOT possibly leave, AND an immediate threat to his life, and so there was no other alternative? I GET being like "what a bunch of [...], how dare they, that's an outrageous thing to say, I'm calling in a complaint/telling management/etc". I just am not seeing why THAT behavior needed MULTIPLE people to get stabbed over. One of them disemboweled and another a minor who is dead. "I'd be annoyed and angry if a bunch of [...] kids called me that too!" is still not in and of itself a reason to be able to kill someone who is unarmed and never claimed to be armed.

OK all: thank you for letting me ramble. I will take my leave for now.

No-one was killed or wounded in this incident because of mean words. They were killed or wounded because a middle aged quadruple-bypass patient, surrounded by an angry baying mob was shoved into a shallow riverbed while being punched in the head and felt in that moment that the only way he was making it out of there alive was to use his knife to defend himself.

It all happened in an instant, and we're all sat here watching Jawahn Cockfield's video frame by frame saying "he should have done this" "he should have done that" with the extraordinary benefit of hindsight that none of the participants in this tragic event had at the time.

Jawahn Cockfield didn't record this video with the intent of it becoming the key exhibit in a homicide trial 2 years later any more than Shakespeare wrote 'Othello' with the intent of it being studied by English Literature students the world over 400 years later.

Isaac Shuman didn't pass well before his time because of words, he died because of actions. And it's not about whether or not anyone 'deserved' to Find Out in direct proportion to the manner in which they F'd Around. It's about whether a man legally defended himself with deadly force, or to what degree of the statute of the laws of the great state of wisconsin that he did not in terms of 6 named victims.

edit: spelling

 

[Chimera]

Do you have a link to the video you’re referring to?

See my post #766.

GUILTY - WI - Apple River multiple stabbing; one teen dead, 4 other people hurt; 52 year old man arrested, July 2022

I saw the whole trial, and watched the video frame by frame several times. That is what I saw. The video does not show Miu's hand when it jabs, just his arm going forward. Ryley holding phone up. But, as he pulls away it shows knife in hand. I guess we disagree. Calling someone names should not...

www.websleuths.com

At 12:00 min. NM has his snorkel and is already at the inner tube floats.
At 37:26 where NM is walking away, the stabbing has already happened.
The first video starts at 37:40-ish where NM initially walks away.

From the link below :

 

[Kakidoll]

Another video from far away shows MIU going after Dante? to stab him. I think it was Dante. It was the last

It's so sad how many people say they would meekly obey a rowdy bunch of teens. This is what our society has become? It's ok for teens to get drunk and high and badger innocent people? To be loud and obnoxious and try to incite a mob by calling someone a pedophile? "For the culture"

The resulting fight is his fault because he didn't obey there orders?

That's why these kids have become so emboldened. Walk in with garbage bags and clean out stores, beat poor Preston Lord to death? And Yes those were the same type of "kids".

This 1000% THIS is why they also attack on the street, the subway, ANYWHERE. Because they see others get away with it so they have to 'one up' on Social media. They did not retreat in the tiniest bit. They Followed and continued and the other group came from different side. Plus the river moving, unstable bottom. And people showing only PART of the video... its easy to edit after to show yourself in the best light. And those kids are STILL lying and trying to play their game. I absolutely would have responded the same.

 

[Leve]

Do you have a link to the video you’re referring to?

It shows most of it during his testimony I think

 

[mickey2942]

I wonder if NM had been in any previous issues with the law? Things that were not allowed in court.

 

[Leve]

I wonder if NM had been in any previous issues with the law? Things that were not allowed in court.

No. He had never been in trouble with the law. He immigrated at 16 with his family and was a mechanical engineer.

Who is Nicolae Miu, man on trial for killing 1, stabbing 4 on Apple River?

A trial is underway in western Wisconsin for Nicolae Miu, a 54-year-old man accused of stabbing four people and killing a teenager in July of 2022 on the Apple River.

www.cbsnews.com