WI WI - Evelyn Hartley, 15, La Crosse, 24 Oct 1953

[Thatjessgirl]

I sent that before I finished my thought! I should have some down time this week to look into more things (finally)! That lead sounds promising.

 

[jashrema]

Jashrema you have so many ideas/points of views that I never even considered. Partially because I was unable to read any news articles! I need to find the info about the farmer because the interviews about the farmer I thought referenced Gein?

Gein was polygraphed and passed. The link I posted at the end is from the witnesses interview with the news reporter. As I said, as time goes on...more and more facts get confused, "urban legends" arise, misinformation continues to spread, and all that contributes to muddy already murky waters. All of a sudden there a 2 perps because people assume that one pushed her out the window while the other was outside ALL because of a "witness" that WEEKS later said he saw a man and woman WALKING....not being dragged, not staggering, in the neighborhood and then said he saw them later in the backseat of car. The legend of 2 perps is born and people then try to "fit" the scenerio into the evidence. It doesn't fit. It's ludicrous to think that one man heaved her up six feet in the air and pushed her thru a basement window while another waited to finish pulling her out.
The detectives that arrived on the scene were interviewed while still alive and said that his footprints led into the area and were all over the back part....checking houses, peeping, whatever. He tried one house (pry marks) and then came upon Evelyn who he could see thru window. That's what he went into town for....to get a woman. Much has been made about the child not being harmed but the farmer probably didn't even know there was a baby there, nor did he care. He was there to rape/kill a woman, not rob. To me...it "fits" that he took her down the basement to rape/kill her. He couldn't do it in front of a big picture window for heavens sake, and the basement would "muffle" any cries or noise to the outside as he SHUT the basement window when he came in. I totally think Evelyn disabled him (I'm going with the kick to the groin) ran and put step ladder under window and started climbing out. Unfortunately, I believe that she was very near completely out before farmer recovered and he raced outside. She screamed loudly as soon as she cleared window and got up to run. Farmer catches her on her 3rd scream, clubs her in the head (patch of blood 10 feet from the window with human hair in it) effectively taking off part of her scalp. It also fits with the scream abruptly ending mid way. Now he has to carry her. They round the side of Rasmussens house, it is his handprint on siding because of course he has blood on him from her and probably leans against house to steady himself as he is carrying a 5'7 woman. He steadies himself again on the garage next door as there is a small blood mark on the side of their garage. He lays her by the basement window well of the next house and leaves her there while he goes to get his car. She's bleeding heavily from a head wound (they bleed like CRAZY) plus perhaps a stab wound? So much blood that it seeps thru the window. Much ado has been made that the blood is the same type as Evelyn so somehow the tale has become that Evelyn herself has touched the house and garage leaving smear marks. She didn't...she's unconsious but the PERP has her blood all over him from striking/stabbing and carrying her. It is NEVER reported that Evelyns footprints are found anywhere outside and they would have been distinct with no shoes on and muddy ground. No drag marks were found either. Of course, by the next day...1000 people are trampling all over the crime scene!
He brings car around, throws her in and heads home or thereabout. He throws his bloody clothes and shoes out (very near where he lives) and either takes Evelyn to his home and rapes/kills her and buries her in woods or somewhere on his property possibly or he takes her to second location and murders and buries her there and on his way home throws his clothes out window.
The special investigator got "boxed" in with the thought that it had to be a steeplejack because of the faded striping pattern on jacket. He was dogged in his pursuit of it being a steeplejack. Even when he went public with his idea, not one lead came out of it because it wasn't a steeplejack. It was a farmer who put on a harness to work the horses in a field!
We have TWO seperate witnesses who come forward with the SAME story. Same jacket, same tennis shoes, agitation of perp and then from the day Evelyn disappeared they NEVER again saw his CAR, his JACKET, or his SHOES.
I truly think that is what happened. I'm wondering what happened to this mans property after he died...is it still standing? That is the place they should search along with his surrounding property.
If those 2 witnesses would have came forward when it happened there might have been a chance at actually finding her body for her family. But like literally hundreds/thousands of people.....they don't want to get involved, or accuse the wrong person, or perhaps they feared for their lives..who knows.
JMO on scenario but it covers everything.

 

[Vivette]

While reading the last posts it seemed like the case was solved (the farmer without his car, Pickwick with a car and a body) but in the video they say they never saw him driving that car again. So did the car disappear or did he just stop driving it?

I wish I lived in the states, I'd drive down to Pickwick (where is it anyway?) with my shovel in the trunk. Bam.

 

[pleasestandby]

I'm reading the following excerpt from an article titled The Strange Powers of Peter Hurkos by Norma Lee Browning in the February 19, 1961 issue of Chicago Sunday Tribune Magazine. In the article, she handed Peter Hurkos photographs of the two Grimes sisters, the three Schuessler brothers, Orja G. Corns and Evelyn Hartley, all missing/murdered persons from the Chicago area, except Hartley. He gave his "impression" of what he felt as he held each picture (psychometry). Peter Hurkos had been in Europe at the time of her disappearance. He is credited with solving 27 murders in 17 countries up to that time.

It reads:

When I handed him her picture, he rubbed his fingertips across it, broke out in a sweat, excitedly thrust it back at me, and cried, "No! No! I don't see this. She's like ice - cold. No! It breaks off. There's no contact."

He grabbed the picture again, finger-tipped it, and asked, "Who gave you this picture? (I shrugged and said nothing) It stops. There's no feeling. I'm scared. It's so fast. Here I am and now I'm nothing anymore. I'm sorry. It's too much for me." He threw the picture back at me, shuddered, and gazed at me in puzzled anguish.

 

[pleasestandby]

Her glasses (UNBROKEN) in the actual police photos, a muddy size 11 footprint, and one of her shoes is found in living room...

There are size 11 shoe prints all around the back areas of the homes there and leading into neighborhood...

There is absolutely NO mention of ever finding her clothes, bra, panties, etc. anywhere at anytime.

The blood on tennis shoes and jacket is the same type as Evelyns.

The detectives that found and saw items also made no mention of anything of Evelyns...It has also been discovered that the tennis shoes and the jacket are NOW LOST.

Janesville Daily Gazette May 8, 1954, page 7:

Article states the shoes had been worn mostly in a rural area. Shoes were analyzed at the BF Goodrich Rubber Co's Boston plant and shown to be manufactured there.

Charles Wilson, head of the state crime lab stated that the man who wore the tennis shoes would wear a size 12-13 leather shoe, indicating he was a big man. The prints of the shoes matched those found outside the home. Shoes were flecked with blood of insufficient quantity to determine if it was Miss Hartley's type.

Article states "Sites included the spot where the shoes were discovered and an area where blood-stained feminine underclothing was found."

Did the two witnesses name the farmer?

 

[Vivette]

Janesville Daily Gazette May 8, 1954, page 7:

Article states the shoes had been worn mostly in a rural area. Shoes were analyzed at the BF Goodrich Rubber Co's Boston plant and shown to be manufactured there.

Charles Wilson, head of the state crime lab stated that the man who wore the tennis shoes would wear a size 12-13 leather shoe, indicating he was a big man. The prints of the shoes matched those found outside the home. Shoes were flecked with blood of insufficient quantity to determine if it was Miss Hartley's type.

Article states "Sites included the spot where the shoes were discovered and an area where blood-stained feminine underclothing was found."

Did the two witnesses name the farmer?

I did not hear a name in the film on youtube.

 

[jashrema]

Janesville Daily Gazette May 8, 1954, page 7:

Article states the shoes had been worn mostly in a rural area. Shoes were analyzed at the BF Goodrich Rubber Co's Boston plant and shown to be manufactured there.

Charles Wilson, head of the state crime lab stated that the man who wore the tennis shoes would wear a size 12-13 leather shoe, indicating he was a big man. The prints of the shoes matched those found outside the home. Shoes were flecked with blood of insufficient quantity to determine if it was Miss Hartley's type.

Article states "Sites included the spot where the shoes were discovered and an area where blood-stained feminine underclothing was found."

Did the two witnesses name the farmer?

I seem to recall that the reporter implied that they had in fact, named the farmer but he is was deceased at the time of the interview. I feel like it was given a "well, he's dead, not much more to do" type thing. If these 2 witnesses went on record as they did with the reporter why are their no articles saying they searched the deceased farmers property? Since nothing was followed up on...I assume they never did find the car...he could have buried it, burned it, etc.

 

[pleasestandby]

I seem to recall that the reporter implied that they had in fact, named the farmer but he is was deceased at the time of the interview. I feel like it was given a "well, he's dead, not much more to do" type thing. If these 2 witnesses went on record as they did with the reporter why are their no articles saying they searched the deceased farmers property? Since nothing was followed up on...I assume they never did find the car...he could have buried it, burned it, etc.

Thank you. One of the films (the one showing the sheriff walking through the property in Minnesota where they dug for the vehicle) named the landowner. It sounded like Percy Plant/Plantz (hard to make out).

Anyway, even though the interview film distorted the image of the man and lady, it was pretty easy to make out their features if you squinted and ran through the Youtube film a couple of times. The guy wore glasses and had a beard, the woman had short hair. They both were in, at least,their sixties. The film also said they lived near where some of the clothing was found (Highway 14 just outside Coon Valley?). If we could only identify them and find out where exactly they lived and maybe looked on some plat maps and 1940 censuses, old newspapers, etc. from that period, we might, on a slim chance, identify the suspect through the process of elimination. If we can pinpoint the approximate date of death of the suspect, there are any number of ways to narrow in on the exact person through obituaries, Family Search, Find-a-Grave, SSDI etc. The film said he died over 10 years ago in the film. What year was the interview done? That would be a starting point to backtrack from.

If they went to the DA, as they stated in the film, their office should have some sort of record of that encounter. FOIA that. LE could also seize the TV station's old film's/records from their archives. If this couple waited for the suspect to die before going to the police, he was probably a relation of theirs.

To believe that the state crime lab or the Sheriff's Dept. misplaced the prime evidence in such a well-known and highly-publicized case is hard to believe. They have all the boxes scattered in the basement of the Sheriff's office, yet they misplaced the evidence is incomprehensible. That cut-off denim jacket and the tennis shoes were probably drenched with the suspect's DNA.

Another thing I can't understand is if the victim was already raped in the basement and half-dead/dead from blood loss, then why did he/they bother taking her with him/them?

 

[pleasestandby]

It doesn't fit. It's ludicrous to think that one man heaved her up six feet in the air and pushed her through a basement window while another waited to finish pulling her out.

I'm thinking one person, too. A scenario: He left her in the basement while he went to get his car. She escaped through the basement window while he was gone. He spotted her outside, grabbed her, she screamed three times, he incapacitated her and he then took her to the car.

Note: After they investigated the "big man" in Milwaukee who had left two bloody shirts with the shoeshine stand worker there, it was determined that he wasn't involved because his frame couldn't have fit through the 14" wide basement window opening.

That makes me wonder if the "big farmer man" with the denim jacket and size 12 tennis shoes could also have not been able to fit through the 14" opening?

 

[pleasestandby]

I personally couldn’t find much information regarding Bernard Lauer at all.. Google was not my friend on that aspect.

Wisconsin Rapids Daily Tribune October 27, 1953:

(District Attorney) John Bossard said Lauer was being held on a Waushara County (WI) warrant charging him with the rape of a 20-year-old Wautoma, Wis., housewife Oct. 14...

Lauer, who sells roofing and siding for an Eau Claire firm, has a sales territory which includes La Crosse. Chief of Police Bernard Barmire of Eau Claire quoted Lauer's wife, Cecelia, as saying that she and her husband were at a rest home at Eagleton in the vicinity of Eau Claire Saturday night until about 7:30 when they returned to their home. Barmire said Mrs. Lauer broke down and was unable to answer any more questions.

Obituary: August 24, 1973 Bernard J. Lauer, 63, 515 Hickory St., Whiting (WI), dies at St. Michael's Hospital, where he has been a patient for the past four weeks. Born Jan. 31, 1910, Mr. Lauer was the son of Mr. & Mrs. Peter Lauer. He was born in Stanley (WI) and married Cecilia Ryba on June 14, 1932 at St. Joseph's Catholic Church, Boyd (WI).

The couple farmed near Stanley and later moved to Eau Claire. Mr. Lauer and his wife moved to Stevens Point in 1956, owning in partnership the A&B Roofing Co.

Mr. Lauer retired because of poor health in 1964, selling his interests in the roofing company...L

 

[jashrema]

If they went to the DA, as they stated in the film, their office should have some sort of record of that encounter. FOIA that. LE could also seize the TV station's old film's/records from their archives. If this couple waited for the suspect to die before going to the police, he was probably a relation of theirs.

Good point regarding farmer being a possible relation particularly when the witnesses stated that they were "working" a farm together.

I'm thinking one person, too. A scenario: He left her in the basement while he went to get his car. She escaped through the basement window while he was gone. He spotted her outside, grabbed her, she screamed three times, he incapacitated her and he then took her to the car.

Note: After they investigated the "big man" in Milwaukee who had left two bloody shirts with the shoeshine stand worker there, it was determined that he wasn't involved because his frame couldn't have fit through the 14" wide basement window opening.

That makes me wonder if the "big farmer man" with the denim jacket and size 12 tennis shoes could also have not been able to fit through the 14" opening?

Good point also about her being left in basement while he went to get car. He would have locked basement door from the outside so she couldn't run out thru the house, she dragged the ladder over to window and was out and started to scream, he punches her to cut off scream. I think the evidence shows that the most blood puddled in the window well of the house 2 doors down and that she had lain there for a bit (when he went to get his car) Unless they are just witholding evidence or the scene was completely destroyed by the next day, I have never seen where they talk about HER footprints....leading one to believe that she was disabled and carried as soon as she got out basement window. Or she could have been almost all the way out when he pounced, pulled her all the way out at which point she is screaming, and when he clears her from the window he disables her right there. Her footprints were nowhere out in the muddy back while the perps are everywhere.
Why couldn't they have figured out if he was carrying her by the depth of the footprint? It would be deeper while he was carrying her. That doesn't take any fancy forensics..just common sense.

 

[pleasestandby]

I think the evidence shows that the most blood puddled in the window well of the house 2 doors down and that she had lain there for a bit (when he went to get his car) Unless they are just witholding evidence or the scene was completely destroyed by the next day, I have never seen where they talk about HER footprints....leading one to believe that she was disabled and carried as soon as she got out basement window.

We also have to include the red cloth fragments found by the window well. I assume those would be pieces of the red pants she was wearing; cut or torn into strips. It's possible she was bound with strips of this material...and/or gagged in the basement.

Maybe she was being carried by him and the gag worked loose by the window well and that's where she screamed three times. He struck her and the gag fell off and was left at the scene. The news reports said fragments of red cloth but they don't mention their size. It would be no problem for a big man to carry a 90 lb girl a short distance.

Good point regarding farmer being a possible relation particularly when the witnesses stated that they were "working" a farm together.

He may even be on the 1940 census with the man and woman if he lived on the farm.

They probably waited until he was dead before they had the interview. If they were afraid of him they would have turned him in knowing he would have went to prison and could no longer harm them. Because they waited until he was dead tells me they didn't want to deal with the fallout/repercussions of one of their family members being the Beast of La Crosse or maybe the Coon Valley Killer would be more fitting.

It also makes me wonder why he took her if he had already raped her. Could she have identified him? Then ALL the evidence was "lost" in the early 1960's? Then the DA refused to investigate? Did he know something we didn't know? Like all the evidence had mysteriously disappeared? It makes one wonder. I think they WANT this case to remain unsolved.

I can't believe investigative reporter Steve Bothun left this case without investigating further to find out who the farmer was from the Coon Valley area. Especially since the victim could have still been held alive for many years. Obviously, Bothun knows who the couple are.

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_esp5uXuK7o"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_esp5uXuK7o[/URL]

Clues in video (made in 1989),Bothun said the farmer in question died more than 10 years ago.
The couple in the interview said they went to DA in 1973. Then to Bothun in 1989, 16 years later?

Film credits at end of film besides Steve Bothun (deceased) lists Chuck Oedsma (currently WKBT chief news photographer), Jeff Kerkman (currently Digital Media Producer at University of Wisconsin - La Crosse) and Dave Greenleaf. They might know something about the interview in 1989.

 

[Vivette]

So maybe he died around 72/73 which is why they went to the DA at that time, and then more than 10 years in 1989 could actually be 16 years.

Oh my god, I feel you like guys are getting so close with all of this.:happydance:

 

[Vivette]

Wisconsin Rapids Daily Tribune October 27, 1953:

(District Attorney) John Bossard said Lauer was being held on a Waushara County (WI) warrant charging him with the rape of a 20-year-old Wautoma, Wis., housewife Oct. 14...

Lauer, who sells roofing and siding for an Eau Claire firm, has a sales territory which includes La Crosse. Chief of Police Bernard Barmire of Eau Claire quoted Lauer's wife, Cecelia, as saying that she and her husband were at a rest home at Eagleton in the vicinity of Eau Claire Saturday night until about 7:30 when they returned to their home. Barmire said Mrs. Lauer broke down and was unable to answer any more questions.

Obituary: August 24, 1973 Bernard J. Lauer, 63, 515 Hickory St., Whiting (WI), dies at St. Michael's Hospital, where he has been a patient for the past four weeks. Born Jan. 31, 1910, Mr. Lauer was the son of Mr. & Mrs. Peter Lauer. He was born in Stanley (WI) and married Cecilia Ryba on June 14, 1932 at St. Joseph's Catholic Church, Boyd (WI).

The couple farmed near Stanley and later moved to Eau Claire. Mr. Lauer and his wife moved to Stevens Point in 1956, owning in partnership the A&B Roofing Co.

Mr. Lauer retired because of poor health in 1964, selling his interests in the roofing company...L

Who is Bernard Lauer? I don't recall reading about him before. Are you implying that he could be that farmer?

 

[pleasestandby]

Who is Bernard Lauer? I don't recall reading about him before. Are you implying that he could be that farmer?

No, he wasn't the farmer associated with the couple. He was someone who was arrested for a rape in Wautoma. During the aftermath of the Hartley disappearance, many who were arrested for a sex crime in Wisconsin, and even out of state, were considered suspects in her disappearance until they were cleared. Lauer was cleared, according to later news accounts. I couldn't find anything in the papers on the outcome of the Wautoma case.

Now, when they finally have a good lead in the Coon Valley farmer scenario, they do nothing. Go figure.

 

[pleasestandby]

So maybe he died around 72/73 which is why they went to the DA at that time, and then more than 10 years in 1989 could actually be 16 years.

That could be very possible. "Dead for over ten years" could include 1972-1973. That might be a good place to start. If we figure he was at least 20 in 1953 and he died in 1973, then he died, at the least, about age 40. If we factor in the 10 years back from 1989 (the date the film was made) it would be another six years (1979 - 1973 = 6). Add that to the age 40 and his minimum age would be 46. So, he died at the age of 40-46 if he was age 20 at the time of the crime (1953). At least, that's what my average math abilities say. Of course, he could of been 30-40 years old at the time of the crime. So, could we agree that his age, at the most, was about 66 in 1973? 40-66/1973-1979 age/time frame. That would be searchable on the SSDI, Ancestry.com or even Find-a-Grave. Coon Valley, WI obituaries to narrow it down.

It's very possible that this person's name could eventually be revealed by a sleuth. And this probably wasn't his first rodeo, either. He probably has other similar crimes. I'm sure there are others in Coon Valley (or La Crosse) that know the name but have chosen to remain quiet.

 

[Vivette]

I was just thinking, if he told them he was going to town to get laid, he probably wasn't married at the time? I don't know why, but I have a feeling he was like, middle aged.. not a younger guy who just hadn't found the right woman yet.

My gut also says the man and woman may have been married, making the farmer perhaps her or his (single) brother? I don't know

Edit: Im trying to find farmers as we speak, but I'm new to obituary searching and such. The search without a name isn't a picknick either.

Edit edit: I found one family, Thiele, where the woman worked with her brother on the family farm, and she later got married. Bernie Thiele is that brother? Can't find anything else, though.

 

[pleasestandby]

I'm using Badgerlink. If you are from Wisconsin and have a library card, it's free to search censuses, newspapers, etc. In searching the 1940 federal census and putting Coon Valley, Vernon County, Wisconsin in the fields and listing occupation for farmer, I got a list of 250 farmers who farmed in 1940 in Coon Valley, Vernon County, WI, including if they were a boarder, son, nephew, farm worker, etc. I can still narrow it down using dates or tweak it for La Crosse, etc.

I'd then put those names into the search field for all online newspapers and see what articles come up. I can then cross-reference those names with Find-a-grave, Ancestry.com, Rootsweb or even type those names into Google to see what comes up.

I think that your state might have some sort of arrangement with the libraries where you can search the censuses/newspapers for free. I don't know about Amsterdam, though.

Of course, if these people weren't farming in 1940, we're out of luck and will prob have to wait until the 1950 censuses come out in 2022, seven years from now.. I'll probably be dead, by then, myself. City directories from 1953 could contain information about all the adult residents in a town, such as their name, occupation and home and work.

BTW, a 20 year old in 1953 would have been only 7 years old at the time of the census. Maybe you might get a hit on an older individual but I guess the chances are slim. Now, the farmer and his wife could very possibly be on the 1940 census.

 

[joellegirl]

Wow just catching up on all these interesting theories. I do want to mention the front door of the house did face the front, it was the livingroom that faced the back. The style of house had a reverse layout of most homes. You entered through the front door and from old news footage looks like you entered a hallway where you passed the entrance to the kitchen on one side and possibly the bathroom on the other side. You walked back to the livingroom which faced the backyard. Bedrooms were down a hallway off to the right. Like I mentioned in older posts,I have been past the house several times and the look has been altered,but the front door and placement of most of the windows are the same.
Part of me thinks Evelyn knew her abductor(s), opened the door for him/them but did not expect what they had in mind. I also believe now that they most likely left out the front door and walked(dragging an injured and /or fighting Evelyn around to the back and through the backyards of neighboring homes to the street. The houses had adjoining back yards and made sort of a circle or rectangle. She most likely fell or lay for awhile near the window well(or was possibly stabbed/bludgeoned there?) and that explains the blood in that spot . They zig zagged through backyards, leaving blood in various places, and made their way to the car waiting on Coulee Dr. I could go on but it has all been said. Just wanted to clarify about the placement of the front door..it did face the front (Hoeschler Dr).

 

[CanManEh]

iam new to this case i watched all the youtube videos and first thing iam thinking is why would anyone leave again through the downstairs window i dont think thats what happend at all i think he attacked upstaird she ran down and put the ladder there so she could climb out it just makes no sence for him to bring a live struggling young woman out a basement window and exspect no one to notice ..he used the front door iam certin of this . secondlly why the heck hasnt this been solved allready by dna .I would love to see a updated version of what they have done to try n solve this case over the last few years or heck something newer then 1990 ..is there anything being done like now adays or thats just happend does anyone know anything like that about this case..