WI WI - Evelyn Hartley, 15, La Crosse, 24 Oct 1953

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CanManEh said:
iam new to this case i watched all the youtube videos and first thing iam thinking is why would anyone leave again through the downstairs window i dont think thats what happend at all i think he attacked upstaird she ran down and put the ladder there so she could climb out it just makes no sence for him to bring a live struggling young woman out a basement window and exspect no one to notice ..he used the front door iam certin of this . secondlly why the heck hasnt this been solved allready by dna .I would love to see a updated version of what they have done to try n solve this case over the last few years or heck something newer then 1990 ..is there anything being done like now adays or thats just happend does anyone know anything like that about this case..
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I agree with you, she probably was the only one to go out the basement window, or tried to. He may have come in that way, but I doubt he went back out that way.

As far as the evidence; the cut-off denim jacket, the black tennis shoes, the brassiere, the underwear and the red cloth fragments from her pants, according to the Wisconsin State Crime Lab, those items were shipped back to the police department in the early 1960's, but were lost in the mails or lost at the police department, all before DNA made its debut.

Because there were red cloth fragments (from her pants) found near the window well pool of blood tells me that the victim was bound and/or gagged at the house using her cut-up pants, taken from the house to that point, was able to remove her gag, screamed three times, struck unconscious during the third scream, severely wounded, knocked down and bled profusely and then taken to the car.

If anything is being done behind the scenes, we don't know about it. I doubt it, since they lost or misplaced ALL the evidence. This is probably why the district attorney didn't want to investigate the claims by the farmer couple in 1973. They have nothing to test the man's DNA against. Let sleeping dogs lie.

Those films by Steve Bothun in 1989 were the last release of any public information on the case that I'm aware of. They need to release the name of the farmer so the wrong person doesn't get accused. The state or feds can go right to that television station and seize those tapes and documents pertaining to the case. There are probably records there naming the farmer suspect and the two people who went to the news channel instead of the police. There is probably film of the them, without the pixelation of their faces, still in the TV station's archives.

The two photographers I mentioned in post #692 who helped Steve Bothun put these films together probably know a lot about who these people were and could be contacted. This could end up being another huge story on this case which could help generate new leads and the possible solving of this 61 year old murder.

The article belows talks about how an image can be unpixelated:

Last night’s Media Watch episode on the ABC highlighted how searching for a pixelated image using Google Images has a very high record of accuracy when it comes to identifying pixelated images where faces have been distorted.

It’s long been known that you can often identify a pixelated face on screen simply by squinting, but Google’s Image search works with pictures where that method doesn’t work.
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When I squinted at those pixelated images it was pretty easy to make out the features of the man and woman. Next step...

http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2012/07/use-google-to-identify-pixelated-pictures/

Someone, somewhere, has the technical know how to identify these people who had their images pixelated on the Steve Bothun show. Is it possible to take a still shot of a pixelated image and post it? Google will then process the image and put it under the correct name in Google images?

Once they are identified, it should be easy enough to identify the suspect through online records.
 
well thats pretty dam sad if they dont still have all the evidence just brutal...
 
Vivette said:
View attachment 71239View attachment 71240
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That was quick. She kind of looks like the Viroqua Jane Doe found in 1984. Does anyone agree? Maybe someone can run both photos through a facial recognition program?

The suspect attempted to dump her along Highway 14, just like the evidence from Evelyn Hartley's abduction. Maybe the farmer IS the suspect and he and the woman were pointing the finger of blame at a fictitious person who allegedly worked at their farm. Once the interview was done, it was time to get rid of the only other person who had first-hand knowledge.

Officers were able to theorize that the suspect had pulled off US Highway 14 and made an attempt to dump the victim there, when suddenly the couple interrupted him. As he drove
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http://www.wxow.com/story/18103491/28-year-old-cold-case-gets-new-look

Map of area where the UID was dumped. His vehicle then went west in the direction of Coon Valley.

https://goo.gl/maps/jPMbX
 
I think the shape of the faces is waaay off. The nose doesn't seem to match either. But it's hard to tell with those stills.
 
An anonymous accusation against an unnamed suspect with no evidence; can it possibly be any more dubious?
 
According to MapQuest, it's 1.75 miles and a 5 minute drive from the Hartley's to the Rasmussen's.
 
STANDREID said:
An anonymous accusation against an unnamed suspect with no evidence; can it possibly be any more dubious?
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What other reason would they have to come out with this information years later?
 
Some people like to feel like they're important even if it's just in front of some media members. Their timeline doesn't really fit either.
 
I don't know this interviewer. Was he considered to be a trustworthy bloke or was he more of a Jerry Springer kind of guy?
 
joellegirl said:
If sufficient evidence became available to warrant such an action, the bodies of Tywee Peterson and/of Gaulthair (two men from LaFarge) theoretically could be exhumed of DNA comparison."

All of this info is from 2003 when the tape surfaced with the men talking about taking Evelyn. As I have said before, from this tape , police seem to know the exact house she was taken(if the story is true of course).
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Frank Lee Gaulthair aka Jack Gaulthair committed suicide at age 39, by placing a shotgun into his mouth and pulling the trigger, on December 25, 1967, and is buried at Bear Creek Cemetery in La Farge, Vernon County, Wisconsin.

The La Crosse police were in La Farge in 1968 investigating Hartley's disappearance. They asked questions about Gaulthair and Peterson. Since Gaulthair had committed suicide in 1967, I don't think it was just coincidental that police were there asking questions in 1968. Follow up on a suicide note confession, perhaps?

It's also possible that Evelyn Hartley let Frank aka Jack Gaulthair or his accomplice(s) into the house that night using the same ruse that had previously worked in 1951.

According to the February 3, 1953 Manitowoc Herald Times, on April 30, 1951, Jack Gaulthair and Marion Driscoll duped another 15 year old girl into leaving her home and going with them after telling them a friend of hers wanted to see her and instead took her to a tavern.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm176/pleasestandby2/gaulthair%20delinquency_zpsnqy89sgs.jpg

When you couple that with these men bragging about abducting Evelyn Hartley and Mr. X's testimony that he saw two men walking near the neighbor's garage with a girl who was leaning on one of the men for support and then Mr. X shortly after almost got into an accident when his auto nearly collided with theirs leaving at a high rate of speed from the area, one could be pretty well convinced this was the scenario of what happened that night. Mr. X was certain these were the same people he saw by the garage, with one man driving and the girl in the back resting her head on the front seat. The other man was in the back with the girl.

It would be interesting to see what transpired at the tavern in 1951.

On a sidenote, a relative of Gaulthair's has a webpage about Frank Gaulthair's sister Lida (Lydia) about how she had 13 children and abandoned them all.

http://thegaulthairchildren.weebly.com/the-children.html

A Racine Journal Times article from April 26, 1948, shows a divorce granted to Mabel M. Gaulthair, Racine County Asylum from Frank Gaulthair. These were Frank Lee aka Jack Gaulthair's parents. His father was Frank Arnold Gaulthair. He died 17 Sept 1955, about two years after Evelyn Hartley's disappearance.

Another child, Violet Kaldunski, Frank and Lida's sister, died in childbirth 22 March 1946.

One more thing, according to a newspaper article, Gaulthair's accomplice, Marion Ernest "Pat Earl" Driscoll had at one time sued a farmer and his wife for disfiguring his face and head with a rake. Could Driscoll be the man with the facial deformity mentioned in Susan Hessel's book, Where's Evelyn?

The house mentioned on the tape was owned by a man with a facial deformity who had once gotten in trouble because of having underaged persons partying in his home.
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Hessel, Susan: Where's Evelyn?

A public domain photo of Jack Gaulthair...
 
So perhaps the couple was talking about Driscroll. In the video they said he was getting angry because the work took longer than expected, perhaps he was supposed to meet Gaulthair at a specific time?

But then why would they keep this a secret til he was long gone, when they weren't afraid to bash his head in?
 
Vivette said:
So perhaps the couple was talking about Driscroll. In the video they said he was getting angry because the work took longer than expected, perhaps he was supposed to meet Gaulthair at a specific time?

But then why would they keep this a secret til he was long gone, when they weren't afraid to bash his head in?
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I wonder where the Gaulthairs moved to in La Crosse before moving to La Farge?

In 1910, both families had moved with the Gaulthier’s going to La Crosse, WI
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http://rheayeakleygenealogy.blogspot...1_archive.html
 
The Driscoll/Gaulhair trial I mentioned was appealed. The excerpt below somewhat details the events and mentions another person named Richard Campton. Not only did Gaulthair and Driscoll take this 15 year old named Donna to the tavern to get her drunk in 1951, they took her to Gaulthair's home where they took her upstairs to a bedroom. I wonder what bar Grant Turnmire worked at? The Madison Wisconsin State Journal November 7, 1956 shows an auction for his bar 1/2 mile north of Soldier's Grove on old Highway 61.

STATE, Respondent,
vs.
DRISCOLL and another, Appellants.

Supreme Court of Wisconsin.

January 9, 1953.
February 3, 1953.

https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1698357/state-v-driscoll/

Donna testified that Richard Campton was at all times with her and the two defendants on the evening in question up until the time she went upstairs with the defendants in the Gaulthair home. Campton denied being with Donna on the night of April 30, 1951. One Grant Turnmire, a tavern-keeper, and his bartender testified that Campton was in the former's tavern from 8 or 9 o'clock of the night in question until closing time at 11 o'clock. Donna identified the car in which she accompanied defendants and Campton that night as being a "Henry J." The only Henry J. the defendants would have had access to was one which was owned together by Driscoll and Driscoll's father,
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Furthermore, we do not believe the defendants were prejudiced by failure to give notice of intent to prove an alibi. *236 Donna testified that Richard Campton was at all times with her and the two defendants on the evening in question up until the time she went upstairs with the defendants in the Gaulthair home. Campton denied being with Donna on the night of April 30, 1951. One Grant Turnmire, a tavern-keeper, and his bartender testified that Campton was in the former's tavern from 8 or 9 o'clock of the night in question until closing time at 11 o'clock. Donna identified the car in which she accompanied defendants and Campton that night as being a "Henry J." The only Henry J. the defendants would have had access to was one which was owned together by Driscoll and Driscoll's father, and the father testified on the day in question he drove this Henry J. to Madison and did not return to La Farge with it until about 10:20 p. m. that evening. Thus the jury must have disbelieved Campton, the tavernkeeper, the bartender, and Driscoll's father, and it is unlikely that the jury would have given any more weight to the testimony of witnesses who might have placed the defendants elsewhere on the night in question.

The brief in behalf of defendants criticizes the trial judge for asking "leading and improper questions" which it is claimed were prejudicial to the defendants.

At the trial Donna testified that Driscoll had "pulled" her upstairs while at the Gaulthair home. In cross-examination defendants' attorney confronted her with testimony given at the preliminary examination in which she had stated that Gaulthair had pulled her upstairs. Then, quoting from the transcript at the trial, the following questions were propounded and answers given:

"Q. Well, it was either Jack or Mr. Driscoll then. Which was it? A. I believe it was Jack. I don't know.

"The Court: Let me ask you a question, whether or not they both assisted in dragging you up?

"The Witness: Yes, they did.

*237 "The Court: Describe so that we will know. "The Witness: One was pushing and one was pulling. "The Court: You don't know which was which, is that the idea?

"The Witness: Yes."
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Google Henry J. under images. Could a Henry J. have been used in the abduction of Evelyn? Could Driscoll, Gaulthair and Campton have also been involved in her abduction? Is this why the police were so interested in them that they went to La Farge, Wisconsin to investigate them further?

https://www.google.com/search?q=henry+J.&espv=2&biw=1164&bih=544&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=CT8MVZ77CvP_sATh4oKoCw&ved=0CCoQsAQ

The Henry J was an American automobile built by the Kaiser-Frazer Corporation and named after its chairman, Henry J. Kaiser. Production of six-cylinder models began in July 1950, and four-cylinder production started shortly after Labor Day, 1950. Official public introduction was September 28, 1950. The car was marketed through 1954.
 
Clues in video (made in 1989),Bothun said the farmer in question died more than 10 years ago.
The couple in the interview said they went to DA in 1973. Then to Bothun in 1989, 16 years later
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According to video..person of interest died in 1979 or therabouts. The witnesses went to DA in 73, a full 6 years before he died and DA blew them off. So it;s reasonable to expect that the witness couple were NOT afraid of the perp when they went to DA. Why? Perp bedridden, ill, moved, paralyzed, senile? My instinct says this perp was at least in his 30's when he kidnapped Evelyn...older, not a kid.
 
Some locations and names were eliminated from this transcript at the request of La Crosse police.

Whitey Barclay : …That’s about the time…. about the time you hauled that Hartley girl down there (unintelligible)…… [owner of house deleted] That right?
Clyde Tywee Peterson : …. I’s up on that deal.
Whitey Barclay: Huh?
Clyde Tywee Peterson: …I’s up on that deal.
Whitey Barclay: You was up or down? What…everything else [location deleted].
{Unintelligible}
Clyde Tywee Peterson: Up, up, up.
Whitey Barclay : What do you mean, up? ---(deleted)---- why not? Why not?
Clyde Tywee Peterson: ….. dig up graves and everything else [location deleted].
Whitey Barclay: …but the thing is, you hauled her from La Crosse down to --( house location deleted)----and back to La Crosse…. huh?
Clyde Tywee Peterson: …. no.
Whitey Barclay: You didn’t haul her back every time?
Clyde Tywee Peterson: …. no.
Whitey Barclay: You did haul her up there, though?
Clyde Tywee Peterson: ….. no witness….. no proof……. they haven’t found her, have they?
Whitey Barclay: I don’t give a sh-- (deleted)----about proof.
Unidentified Woman #1: What girl?
Whitey Barclay: The Hartley girl.
Unidentified Woman #1: What Hartley girl?
Whitey Barclay: Yeah, well this is the Hartley girl that disappeared in La Crosse, and he hauled her to---( location deleted)---and she disappeared.
Whitey Barclay: He {unintelligible}…. You know damn right he all done it …… and I know it, and he told me with his own mouth.
Unidentified Woman: From La Crosse?
Whitey Barclay: Yeah. That’s the girl they never did solve the mystery on, see.
Whitey Barclay : I’ll tell you another thing that’s ridiculous, (unintelligible) won’t tell him… Jack Gaulthair he went crazy and shot himself.
Whitey Barclay : Yeah…. yeah…
Whitey Barclay: He knows about it, too. ---( name deleted)---- knows about it, and you know ---(deleted)---- is scared to death of his kids because he’s afraid he’s goin’ to kill {unintelligible}, and I think ---( deleted)---- knows about it, too.
Whitey Barclay: …. I’ll be damned…
Whitey Barclay: I think , I think she’s buried down there, too……. and old --( deleted)----is just scared of his kids! ---( name deleted)---- was the biggest man there was……. why is he scared of his kids?..... ‘cause he knew where she’s buried, didn’t he? You think I’m right or wrong? I…. I… can read between the lines Tywee….. and …. and… shut it off, shut it off. ~End of transcript~

Three interesting points; Clyde admitted 3 times to being involved. Barclay alluded to the fact that Peterson transported Hartley to and from La Crosse to a residence in La Farge. Peterson didn't say dig up grave, he said dig up graves. Plural. Who would those other graves be? I have a good idea of who they might be and they're all from the same family of one of the suspects.

We have an eye witness, Ed Hoefer, (Mr. X) who saw two men and a girl near a garage by the Rasmusen home and then again when his vehicle almost collided with theirs head on leaving from near the scene of the kidnapping, two blocks down from the Rasmusen house.

We also have a similar case that happened in 1951 involving two of the suspects named in the tape. In the first incident, it was Gaulthair and Driscoll. Both also dragged the (likely extremely drunk) victim, one pushing and one pulling, probably the same scenario at the Rasmusen home. One on the outside of the window pulling and one on the inside pushing a terrified girl up through the basement window. Though, from the tape it appears Peterson and Gaulthair were involved in the actual Hartley kidnapping and took her to possibly Driscoll's house. Driscoll was the one with the deformed face received from a farmer's wife who beat him with a rake.

Q. Well, it was either Jack or Mr. Driscoll then. Which was it? A. I believe it was Jack. I don't know.

"The Court: Let me ask you a question, whether or not they both assisted in dragging you up?

"The Witness: Yes, they did.

*237 "The Court: Describe so that we will know. "The Witness: One was pushing and one was pulling. "The Court: You don't know which was which, is that the idea?

"The Witness: Yes."
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In the news article below, the lead investigator shows that the suspect's tennis shoes and jacket were thrown from a moving vehicle going north on Highway 14, back to La Crosse, between La Farge and that city and that only the passenger could have thrown those items from the vehicle and not the driver, based on where they were found alongside the road. Underpants and bra were found just off Highway 14, two miles SE of La Crosse. Bloodstained trousers were found four miles farther south near the Sportsmen's Inn. One girl in a letter mentioned in the Hessel book stated that Hartley's white blouse was found near the Seminary in La Crosse. From news reports, two different sized men wore the denim jacket, the shoes and the men's trousers.

[URL="https://news.google.com/newspapers?
nid=1499&dat=19570714&id=AR4aAAAAIBAJ&sjid=oiYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7045,965067&hl=en"]https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19570714&id=AR4aAAAAIBAJ&sjid=oiYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7045,965067&hl=en[/URL]

The below person claims that two of Hartley's high school friends know that Hartley was at Gaulthair's house in the past drinking and that Gaulthair had stabbed Hartley during the abduction.

http://www.***********/user/abinaderus

I'm convinced there are two or more individuals involved in the Hartley kidnapping and not just one. We have witnesses, taped confessions and evidence. Well, there used to be evidence. 61 years and still counting.

If anyone out there in internet land has a transcript of the tape without the omissions, I'd be happy to get a copy.
 
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