Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #38

[Mistermagoo]

Have not read all previous threads so apologies if already discussed. With regard to the 911 call, dispatch said they heard screaming but did not indicate they heard conversation. JC said when JP came into the bathroom he told her mom to hang up the phone (JP doesn't mention the phone or knowing DC had called 911 at all in his account). They had to be pretty close to each other in the bathroom, I would expect the dispatcher would have been able to hear him say that if he did (and if dispatch heard a voice say "hang up the phone" I would expect LE would have known for sure they were heading into an active crime and radioed to have a backup follow the only car leaving the area).

Also, JC said JP told DC to tape JC's mouth, and she did. She doesn't mention that it was JP that did it or that it went all the way around her head either (and that would have been memorable because duct tape in hair is not just "coming off", that is either getting cut out which there would be evidence of, or painfully ripping hair from the scalp). However, JP says he gave DC the roll to tape JC's mouth but she was struggling so he did it himself. And he said he wrapped it all the way around her head, and then did her ankles and wrists too. So why did he add that embellishment when it doesn't appear to be what he did. JP also says he had two pair of gloves on, how was he able to work with the Gorilla duct tape roll at all with two pairs of gloves on?

And the timing seems almost implausible, I don't know why it jumps out at me, but the call came in at 12:53 and in that time he gets into the bathroom, struggles with some duct tape with gloves on, wraps her head, hands, and ankles, shoots DC, picks up JC and struggles to get her out of the house (slips in blood, tries to carry her, etc), then drags her across a yard, stops to open the drivers door and pop the trunk, drags to the trunk, lifts her and gets her into it and then gets in the car and removes his mask and leaves the driveway...that just seems like a lot to do in 7 min for the average guy. (and we don't know if DC started the call right after the shots were fired, if so then JP also says he ran around and checked the rest of the house before forcing his way into the bathroom, so add that into the 7 min)

good points

 

[BradB]

JP is a liar. There’s just something about this entire thing that smells.

 

[SeekingJana]

Self deleted. Staff can decide.

 

[heed101]

JP is a liar. There’s just something about this entire thing that smells.

What doesn't seem right?

 

[crhedBngr]

Gift of fear pdf: I read it during the watts case, don´t know if it is the whole book. I think it was the most informativ book I ever read and if I come across it in "real life form" I will buy it.

https://the-eye.eu/public/Books/Radical Feminist Literature/Gavin de Becker/The Gift of Fear (123)/The Gift of Fear - Gavin de Becker.pdf

@scandinavian girl : Thanks for including the .pdf link.

Nice this thing is in .pdf format and therefore FREE to read!!! Download it and save it, and you are good to go.

 

[Tim Constas]

While probably true in all cases and not any reason to believe these "facts" are not true, I would just say we know these things from the killers themselves and I would not consider them the fountain of "truth" necessarily.... In fact, many of them seem to enjoy games and power trips and have a need to feel smarter than the average bear... I already am having a big problem with the four minutes that Jake seemed to pull right from the TV or internet....

Just me but I put little store in what any perp says.... I think their very acts have already impeached any reason to believe what they say has any veracity...

jmho

The 911 call came in at 12:53 am and the Sheriff arrived on scene at 1:00 am so four minutes isn't really that much of a stretch. Whether it was 4 or 6 minutes, what took place was extremely fast and I don't expect that he timed it. JMO

 

[Tim Constas]

JP is a liar. There’s just something about this entire thing that smells.

Like?

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

.

Respectfully snipped by me for focused response:

The twenty traits assessed by the PCL-R score are:
​

• 
  
  
  • glib and superficial charm
  • grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self 1
  • need for stimulation 2
  • pathological lying
  • cunning and manipulativeness 2
  • lack of remorse or guilt 2
  • shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness) 1
  • callousness and lack of empathy 2
  • parasitic lifestyle 2
  • poor behavioral controls 2
  • sexual promiscuity
  • early behavior problems
  • lack of realistic long-term goals 2
  • impulsivity 2
  • irresponsibility 2
  • failure to accept responsibility for own actions 1
  • many short-term marital relationships
  • juvenile delinquency
  • revocation of conditional release
  • criminal versatility

I can guesstimate a score of 20 based on the facts known and how I've interpreted them. I am not an expert by any means but do have a medical background. JMO at a high level glance FWIW​

Interesting to see why people come to conclusions. Couldn't stop wondering what the basis was for JP being called psychopath/sociopath . Was curious. Thanks for the reply.

 

[BradB]

People coming and going from the cabin are signs he was dealing drugs. He never held a steady job because he was making money dealing drugs. It’s just another very strange case.

 

[sds71]

Bogenschneider said he has received several “distraught” text messages from Frey in the past few days.
“It’s going to take a while for her to deal,” the neighbor said.
He said Frey, who remarried just two months ago, is “afraid” of all the attention from the case.
But he said the tiny town has rallied around her by dropping off flowers outside the home where she lives with her new husband and Labradors

https://nypost.com/2019/01/15/mom-o...raught/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

Yeah, based on what little we know, he doesn't seem to fit many of those traits. What is he closest to, then, based on what we know?

Eight more years of college and I might be able to guess lol.

 

[Mandie K]

JP is a liar. There’s just something about this entire thing that smells.

Can you elaborate some more on this?

 

[girlhasnoname]

self delete

 

[bellyup]

Curiosity: Eight years of psychology, research, statistics, only to end up in law lol. But it still interests me. Sooo
The labels of sociopath/psychopath, etc are being easily used but based on criteria and characteristics I don't see it with JP. Even a peripheral glance at the characteristics and criteria I have to stretch to meet even a few characteristics let alone try to back it up with not a history of such but one known instance (which is not permitted). Just sharing this info for anyone interested. Would love to hear honest opinions from those thinking JP fits this mold. Which charecteristics and why. Is it enough? TIA

Snipped by me for length.
We have similar backgrounds. Also many years studying psychology but ultimately went a different direction. My partner as well.

That said, I was batting this around last night, myself. See my post about the DSM-5 requiring conduct disorder be evident by age 15 in order to be diagnosed sociopath as an adult. I wasn't seeing that as evident with JP.

I think the key here is that there is so much we don't know. So if we go by the list you provided

• glib and superficial charm (unknown)
• grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self (seems likely based on confession)
• need for stimulation (unknown)
• pathological lying (unknown, but seems likely was lying to parents)
  
• cunning and manipulativeness (confirmed by planning the crime)
  
• lack of remorse or guilt (unknown, but seems likely)
  
• shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness) (confirmed by reports and post arrest actions)
  
• callousness and lack of empathy (confirmed by actions)
  
• parasitic lifestyle (confirmed by living off of parents)
  
• poor behavioral controls (unknown, but seems likely)
  
• sexual promiscuity (unknown)
  
• early behavior problems (unknown)
  
• lack of realistic long-term goals (confirmed by not keeping a job)
  
• impulsivity (confirmed by actions)
• irresponsibility (confirmed by actions)
  
• failure to accept responsibility for own actions (unknown)
  
• many short-term marital relationships (likely not old enough for pattern to fit)
  
• juvenile delinquency (unknown or well disguised)
  
• revocation of conditional release (unknown or well disguised)
  
• criminal versatility (unknown or well disguised)

 

[heed101]

According to Marshall University’s Women Center, characteristics of the stalker can fall into 5 categories:

1. Relationship: These stalkers tend to stalk previous partners and desire a relationship with the person. In some cases, the stalker in this category may desire a relationship with an acquaintance. Individuals who fit the stalker description and has had negative relationships in the past, often meet criteria for a personality disorder such as narcissistic personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder or sociopathy (i.e., a sociopath), or dependent personality disorder.

1. Obsessed: This type of individual constantly thinks about the person they idolize. They might create a “mental life” involving the person and have a hard time imagining life without the person. You may have heard of the term erotomania which describes a delusion in which the person believes that someone, usually of a higher social status (celebrity, powerful person, etc.) is in love with him or her. It is likely that someone suffering from schizophrenia may fall prey to the erotomanic delusion.

1. Rejected: Many stalkers have a history of challenging relationships and difficulty communicating with others. Some stalkers, especially if female, may meet criteria for borderline personality disorder in which rejection is often very difficult to cope with. This does not, however, describe all individuals with borderline personality disorder. However, it is likely that some individuals with this diagnosis could become a stalker due to a history of stormy relationships, roller coaster emotions, and unstable love affairs.

1. Intelligent: Marshall University claims that stalkers are intelligent and carefully plan their stalking behavior. Someone who falls into this category could meet criteria for sociopathy. Sociopaths are adept at planning their “attack” and controlling others with charm or acting with glib.

1. Motivated: Most stalkers believe that their object of desire is the only person they could ever love and tend to be motivated to pursue based on this type of thinking.

 

[ilovechili]

Maybe Jake said something like “police open up” as he banged on the door. Not sure why he would have left that part out though

The brown jacket? Shaved head? Saying he was police, open up as you suggest.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

There's been lots of speculation and insight based on personal experiences shared by many posters here respectfully including yourself. I haven't seen anyone looking for kicks and I'm sure the mods will let us know if it's against the rules.

I apologize if I offended by asking. So many have called JP a psychopath or sociopath. Is it ok to ask why? My post had nothing to do with analyzing JP but rather why he was being given these labels.
Edited to correct 2 sim words

 

[bellyup]

You can’t diagnosis him. He had no background. There’s absolutely nothing at hand to predict future behavior. We can only gather what motivated this tragedy and even then it won’t prevent this type of crime in the future.
It’s simple as people will do whatever they want to do.

I don't agree with this at all.
There are almost always indications that a murderers path was heading in that direction. We just need to know what to look for. By dissecting it we can see patterns, etc. We have VERY little information (and what we do have is contradicting) about JP's past and childhood. There very well may have been a lot of indications that this was heading this direction. I want to know those so that in the future we can identify it and hopefully intervention can take place.

 

[crhedBngr]

Good Morning All:

@JerseyGirl indicated she would set up an Incel thread for us. I'm not sure when - we know our Mods can be swamped - but hopefully today.

 

[bellyup]

Going off the stated score of 30 or above qualifying for a diagnosis of psychopathy, what would the consensus be on a person who had a score just below that? Lets say a 25 or so with no criminal background at all? Just trying to wrap my brain around something.

Under the current way that diagnostics for these disorders are done it would likely fall to the catchall diagnosis of "anti social personality disorder". I can get on a huge soapbox about the shift in the way diagnostics are being done (I don't agree with it) but it would likely veer off topic.