Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #40

[Get off my Lawn!]

I have a Navy Seal client with intense PTSD who underwent that therapy. It messed him up badly. A couple years to recover from the therapy itself. I've heard it can be effective but it depends on the therapist. I don't know.

Worked with Psychologists applying EMDR with police subjects in other parts of the world. Saw it help a lot of people. Of course I agree, there may be exceptions.

 

[Falcon500]

I believe only Judicial confessions don't go to trial, not positive but I think.

Confessions that don't meet the Miranda standards are not admissible at trial. A "judicial confession" wouldn't apply here.

 

[pepper 34]

I don't know. Survivors are made famous and carry the burden of their fame and what happened to them, for the rest of their lives. No one forgets. To me, making her an inspirational icon to be the subject of a t-shirt, is awful. She's 13. They're crafting her identity and making her less capable of being seen as a normal kid.

I can only speak for myself but if I was a shy 13 year old who just endured unthinkable trauma and survived, I wouldn't want to be on a t-shirt or singled out any more than I had to be. It's awful to me.

She probably feels super sad and not strong. She was a passive girl, like Elizabeth Smart and that likely helped her survive. But it might also make her feel like she's not this strong fighter everyone is calling her. And if she feels scared and sad and weak at times, being made to be an icon like that may make her feel shame about admitting to, or having those feelings, because now she's expected to be this warrior hero.

This is one of the most thoughtful and insightful comments I've read about how Jayme, a shy girl, might feel about everything that's happened. Her shyness must be taken into account. If you're not a shy person yourself, then I'm even more impressed. Wasn't it you who commented they might send Jayme a note of encouragement some time in the future? I sincerely hope you do.

 

[Blueberry2720]

Maybe something's wrong with me but it's a tiny bit odd to me. I would feel super protective of Jayme if I was her family. I hope he doesn't expect to meet her.

Why not just send the items with a nice, encouraging note?

Sorry for being cynical, guys. He's probably a sweetheart with the best of intentions.

I agree the way the guy implemented everything is a bit odd. It was the thought I liked. I think sending food baskets or something to LE would be nice. It's the thought and basic gesture of thanks that counts.

 

[MassGuy]

That means that a judge will consider whether the excited utterances and later statement are admissible.

Well yes, that’s how it works.

Not that it’ll matter much here. His words are the least of it.

 

[Rubiconbob]

I wonder if they'll talk to the media. I feel like if that was me, I would not say a single word to the media and they do seem to be very private about it so far. But, the pressure to explain themselves, and the intense curiosity about his upbringing and warning signs, if any, may break them, and they may feel the need to talk about it one day.

Sorry to sound cold, but I think there obligated, your son commited 2 brutal homicides and kidnapped a teen girl for 90 days. He described the ordeal the way one would describe the frustration of waiting in line at Arby’s for your order, realizing u have extra sandwich and bolting.... calm matter of fact.... no big deal.

Your neighbor spoke with certainty of foster care. When was the foster care?? Early childhood ... late adolescence??

Did birth parents bail, or did you get frustrated to wits end and both gave up on boys...

If you adopted kids and put heart into them and one simply sociopath from day one.. your not to blame.

If y’all were scared or worried and knew he’d gotten hold of a mossberg shotgun, should have gotten it back.

21 yr old booted from marines living by himself in 5 bedroom house is odd period... he wasn’t throwing Keggers, just reading army survival books.

If your quality parents and have waterpark photos / homework momentos and stuff like that ... say so.. show us... sorry but this hiding BS there hurting too crap is garbage..
They know why marines didn’t work out, and they know on foster care,

 

[gitana1]

That means that a judge will consider whether the excited utterances and later statement are admissible.

No. Because a statement by the defendant is not hearsay. It's an admission. The "excited utterance" exception has to do with hearsay and his statements aren't hearsay.

I'm telling you, based on my knowledge as a lawyer, why I am positive those statements are going to be admissible.

Yes, the court will decide. And my prediction is that they will be deemed admissible. I am 100% certain, for the reasons I explained previously.

There is simply nothing I can come up with that would make them inadmissible.

I have no doubts whatsoever that he was given Miranda warnings and was not coerced when he made what were recorded statements, when he confessed during his interview. So those will come in.

His statement when pulled over was not in answer to a question about the crime. So they did not need to give a Miranda warning before he made that statement, in order for it to be admissible. They pulled him over and he blurted that out. It's in the police report and I'm betting they have dash cams like everyone else these days. There is no other reason for that statement not to be admitted.

If this goes to trial, those statements will be admitted.

 

[Seattle1]

That's true. I wonder what they have to say.

I think they're still in shock, disbelief. In court, Dad sobbed openly during the hearing. When he did speak, he said he could only think of JC family now. Mom reportedly is shattered, and scared to leave her house. MOO

 

[Deleted member 158085]

One could only hope she would read here IF she one day decides to google herself and this horrific case. For the most part posters on here are kind and compassionate and probably more so when it is a young victim being discussed.

I am proud to be able to post with very good people who are here to seek justice for Jayme as well as her parents. The Mods, and Tricia run a fair and tight ship and we should all appreciate them giving us the opportunity to be a part of their little corner of the web. We are guests of theirs and sometimes bad guests get thrown overboard.

IMO Jayme, her family and even her friends would be very touched to read her forum. All MOO.

I hope she won’t. Insinuations about her involvement were allowed here for some time. I had to step away. It made me extremely angry.

 

[Julia966]

I really hope the other teens will be kind and not make any comments or ask Jayme any questions about what happened when she returns.

You know, I have faith in kids. I think they read each other better than adults read them or read each other. As long as adults don't project too much onto them, I think the kids are going to be OK.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Everyone is very respectful here. It would be better if she did not google herself, since even the most respectful posts could inadvertently trigger memories for her. Her family is most likely shielding her from media right now.

Typically one of the first steps in the recovery process will be to avoid any type of media if it is a public or known event.

 

[Julia966]

Sorry to sound cold, but I think there obligated, your son commited 2 brutal homicides and kidnapped a teen girl for 90 days. He described the ordeal the way one would describe the frustration of waiting in line at Arby’s for your order, realizing u have extra sandwich and bolting.... calm matter of fact.... no big deal.

Your neighbor spoke with certainty of foster care. When was the foster care?? Early childhood ... late adolescence??

Did birth parents bail, or did you get frustrated to wits end and both gave up on boys...

If you adopted kids and put heart into them and one simply sociopath from day one.. your not to blame.

If y’all were scared or worried and knew he’d gotten hold of a mossberg shotgun, should have gotten it back.

21 yr old booted from marines living by himself in 5 bedroom house is odd period... he wasn’t throwing Keggers, just reading army survival books.

If your quality parents and have waterpark photos / homework momentos and stuff like that ... say so.. show us... sorry but this hiding BS there hurting too crap is garbage..
They know why marines didn’t work out, and they know on foster care,

They're not obligated, and if it were me, I would want to crawl under a rock and die. So, we'll see. As I said, I suspect pressure will mount and one or both of them will eventually give an interview. I'm thinking of the Columbine parents, for example. They didn't talk for a decade, I wanna say.

 

[gitana1]

Confessions that don't meet the Miranda standards are not admissible at trial. A "judicial confession" wouldn't apply here.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean here by "Miranda standards". If someone walks into a police station and says, "I just killed my wife." That confession is admissible even though the Miranda warning wasn't given.

The warning comes into play only when a person has been arrested and/or is in a situation when a reasonable person feels not free to go, (is in custody) when LE begins questioning them about a crime.

So if LE is simply doing a welfare check and asks a person in a home where so and so is, without giving them a Miranda warning, and the person says, "Oh my child? I just drowned him in the bathtub." That's admissible. It's not covered by Miranda.

If someone gets pulled over and is simply asked for their ID and they instead say, "I want you to know I have a dead body in the trunk." that's not covered by Miranda. It's admissible.

 

[mtnlites]

Maybe something's wrong with me but it's a tiny bit odd to me. I would feel super protective of Jayme if I was her family. I hope he doesn't expect to meet her.

Why not just send the items with a nice, encouraging note?

Sorry for being cynical, guys. He's probably a sweetheart with the best of intentions.

It's odd to me.He is from my area and this is kind of common for him. Opinion specifically on him is always split because, sometimes, the family finds it intrusive and invasive. I think his heart is in the right place, but actually going there and delivering and meeting the people (I don't know if he did meet Jayme's family but I know he's met the folks he's delivering to in the past) does seem invasive. When there's a chance that someone might feel uncomfortable my opinion is that you shouldn't do it, just to be on the safe side, no matter how good your intentions are. If it's really about the person you're trying to help, then you'll keep their needs in mind as well as your own. I am afraid that people will start thinking they're entitled to Jayme's attention.

With that said, I am in full support of reaching out to the people on the periphery of her return and acknowledging them.

 

[MsBetsy]

They were not considered mental illness for a long time, as they were considered to be part of the personality, but now they are understood to be a form of mental illness, and in some forms, developmental disorders and trauma and stress disorders.

Yes, it was I believe in the 1800s that a Dr. noticed some of his mental health patients had a "moral depravity" or "moral insanity," in that they had no sense of ethics or the rights of others.
The term psychopath was first applied to those people around 1900.
It was changed to sociopath in the 1930s to emphasize the damage they do to society.
The term " pyschopath" was generally used to describe a more serious disorder, linked to genetic traits, which is more serious then "sociopath", to refer to less dangerous people who are seen more of products of their environment, including upbringing.
That's the history as I understand it, and of course there has been a heck of a lot more research about it since then. Imo

 

[Harmony 2]

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[gregjrichards]

Everyone is very respectful here. It would be better if she did not google herself, since even the most respectful posts could inadvertently trigger memories for her. Her family is most likely shielding her from media right now.

Here in the U.K/Europe you can make a request for Google to take down links about you it would be great if something similar could be done for Jayme. I realise this would be no easy task given the number of articles published around the globe.

 

[Julia966]

They're not obligated, and if it were me, I would want to crawl under a rock and die. So, we'll see. As I said, I suspect pressure will mount and one or both of them will eventually give an interview. I'm thinking of the Columbine parents, for example. They didn't talk for a decade, I wanna say.

I should clarify: I mean, talk to the press. They are obligated to talk to LE, and I imagine they are doing so.

 

[gitana1]

I hope she won’t. Insinuations about her involvement were allowed here for some time. I had to step away. It made me extremely angry.

Yup. That's why I left the threads too. Very disturbing to me. I felt just looking at her social media and hearing about her life, her family and he closeness to her mom, it seemed absurd. Everything about her screams sheltered, sweet innocence to me. Very much like Elizabeth Smart who was a year older.

 

[PrairieWind]

No. Because a statement by the defendant is not hearsay. It's an admission. The "excited utterance" exception has to do with hearsay and his statements aren't hearsay.

I'm telling you, based on my knowledge as a lawyer, why I am positive those statements are going to be admissible.

Yes, the court will decide. And my prediction is that they will be deemed admissible. I am 100% certain, for the reasons I explained previously.

There is simply nothing I can come up with that would make them inadmissible.

I have no doubts whatsoever that he was given Miranda warnings and was not coerced when he made what were recorded statements, when he confessed during his interview. So those will come in.

His statement when pulled over was not in answer to a question about the crime. So they did not need to give a Miranda warning before he made that statement, in order for it to be admissible. They pulled him over and he blurted that out. It's in the police report and I'm betting they have dash cams like everyone else these days. There is no other reason for that statement not to be admitted.

If this goes to trial, those statements will be admitted.

I'm sure his attorney will go over that interview recording/video with a fine toothed comb to look for any irregularity. But it sounds like they gave him proper Miranda advisement and he waived his right to remain silent. Maybe even had him sign a waiver. So unless there was some sort of threat, I don't see that confession not being admitted. But the prosecution doesn't even need the confession. There is plenty of evidence and Jayme can testify to everything if need be. Really hoping for a guilty plea. Hopefully JP's father can maybe help convince him to do the right thing and just plead guilty.