Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #42

[Evinrude]

If we're just talking about the state of the house, I've seen far worse. And you're right, it does look messy but that's much different from dirty. One article referred to it as "squalor." Their definition must be much different from mine. I've seen houses where animals are allowed to wander through and defecate wherever they want, carpet drenched in urine and food, walls with excrement, black mold growing everywhere...My problem with referring to the house like that is that the situation is already horrible enough. They don't need to dramatize to make it sound worse-it's already bad.

I agree, I don’t think he was a slob. Many other things but not that. I’d say average, at least what I see around the twin cities area.

 

[Wrenny]

If we're just talking about the state of the house, I've seen far worse. And you're right, it does look messy but that's much different from dirty. One article referred to it as "squalor." Their definition must be much different from mine.

I agree with you. I thought the term "squalor" was misapplied.

 

[mtnlites]

I agree, I don’t think he was a slob. Many other things but not that. I’d say average, at least what I see around the twin cities area.

Average where I live as well. Even the stuff out in the yard would fit right in here. Multiple vehicles sitting around on the grass, some waiting to die? Here, we laughingly call them "vehicular lawn sculptures."

If the place had been HOUSEHUNTERS perfect with granite counter tops, stainless steel appliances, double sinks, and Pinterest-worthy living rooms it's not like that would have somehow made it better. It's already about as bad as it could get.

 

[Wrenny]

I agree with you. I thought the term "squalor" was misapplied.

OMG. I did a google image search on "squalor". OMG. Yeah, THAT is squalor.

 

[SeekingJana]

.

 

[mtnlites]

OMG. I did a google image search on "squalor". OMG. Yeah, THAT is squalor.

Ha ha, right? His house isn't up to my standards and is not the kind of place where I'd want to be trapped but, then, I wouldn't want to be held captive anywhere.

 

[mtnlites]

My grandfather was 19 when my mother was born. She told me she didn't remember him having hair.
And he was not a criminal.

Yeah, it's not that uncommon for men to start losing their hair at that age, especially if it's genetic. Alopecia is a possibility,too. In addition, in the complaint he DID say that he shaved his head as a forensic precaution. He may have just kept it up even after he'd abducted her. It does appear that he has some genuine loss on either side of his forehead, but hair growth can be funny. Look at CW's hair when he was in court-the coloring was so weird that I couldn't take my eyes off it.

 

[Jim_M]

I wonder how far along those defense lawyers have gotten? Thirty (30) boxes of evidence. Plus all the evidence collected at the second crime scene. Or, would the horror-house be third? And the red Taurus be the second?

I hope they can convince this criminal that a trial would be really bad for him, his family, and his victim. Would they even try to appeal to any sense of decency remaining in him?

imho they really have nowhere else to go:

* JTPs confession
* The murder weapon
* The remaining ammo, right where he told LE it would be
* The boots. And any corroborating prints at The Closs home. The first crime scene.
* JTPs detailed description about that crime scene, see confession

Two (2) Life-in-prison terms, No possibility of parole. ETA: That would be my offer to them.

*Note to self. I may get extreme for some of you. IMO Death By Firing Squad should be offered to this one heinous human being. Would something like that convince him to plead guilty? Like on Feb 6th?

Would the State Assembly be willing to enact this one time for a death penalty? Would their constituents be wanting to make this happen?

I am not usually very convinced about the death penalty. I have seen people released from life sentences (thankfully) using the same technology they're using for our past victims. Just like the Jenny Bastian case. 32 years and justice makes a calling.

Would that have even made a difference in this criminal's plans? We need to realize that there should be exceptions, to every law. I hope this is okay to put down in words. Please feel free to delete if too off topic. Thank You, Jim

 

[Ragnarok]

I wonder how far along those defense lawyers have gotten? Thirty (30) boxes of evidence. Plus all the evidence collected at the second crime scene. Or, would the horror-house be third? And the red Taurus be the second?

I hope they can convince this criminal that a trial would be really bad for him, his family, and his victim. Would they even try to appeal to any sense of decency remaining in him?

imho they really have nowhere else to go:

* JTPs confession
* The murder weapon
* The remaining ammo, right where he told LE it would be
* The boots. And any corroborating prints at The Closs home. The first crime scene.
* JTPs detailed description about that crime scene, see confession

Two (2) Life-in-prison terms, No possibility of parole. ETA: That would be my offer to them.

*Note to self. I may get extreme for some of you. IMO Death By Firing Squad should be offered to this one heinous human being. Would something like that convince him to plead guilty? Like on Feb 6th?

Would the State Assembly be willing to enact this one time for a death penalty? Would their constituents be wanting to make this happen?

I am not usually very convinced about the death penalty. I have seen people released from life sentences (thankfully) using the same technology they're using for our past victims. Just like the Jenny Bastian case. 32 years and justice makes a calling.

Would that have even made a difference in this criminal's plans? We need to realize that there should be exceptions, to every law. I hope this is okay to put down in words. Please feel free to delete if too off topic. Thank You, Jim

There are no charges at this time for the JP residence. Not even False Imprisonment. The Taurus for sure being the kidnap vehicle.

Doubt any new punishment implemented after a crime is legal for that criminal?

IIRC Wisconsin was the first state to abolish the death penalty back in the 1850s.

 

[Julia966]

The preceding posts except Julia's, whose post I am replying to are where part of the idea that he cleaned blinds came from... There have been other posts on other threads in the past about him cleaning obsessively and there is a wand similar to what my housekeeper uses to clean the blinds. Jayme said he hit her on the back with it once, which is awful for that little girl to endure.
We don't know IF he did or didn't do any actual blind cleaning. I doubt it, but I think it's possible that he did let her out from under the bed, and at those times of the days or nights, he'd compulsively look out the front- facing windows in particular for any approaching vehicles or LE presence, especially if he knew the country was looking for her.

Minor thing in the scheme of things either way when one considers his retinue of strange and cruel torturous actions such as him hitting her with what looks like the end of a long Swiffer wand such as my housekeeper uses. I don't know the name for the tool, actually, as I've never bought or used this type of thing.

IDK, but I do know that I didn't mean for this to turn into one of those "issues." Not sure why it did after my post and not when someone else mentioned him cleaning blinds ( there's another post too but I didn't include it). I'm really sorry for any misunderstanding, and think it likely is productive to move on to other aspects of the case, as this is something we don't know one way or the other except that he hit Jayme, a very small girl with a rod. That breaks my heart for her.

Hugs, and thanks for stating your opinion so clearly, Julia. I'm sorry that I misquoted you. I hope I have now corrected the error to the best of my ability.
IMO, respectfully.

No problem, SeekingJana! I didn't feel that you misquoted me or that it became an issue. I thought I had missed something, which I often do Please don't be sorry, we're all figuring it out. I feel bad if I made you feel bad. Hugs back to you!

 

[ilovechili]

I had 2 theories on that. Either

LE had to approve the photos, and they wouldn't allow ones of his room to be published,​

OR,

his room may be on the 2nd floor and not off the deck, which would mean they couldn't get to a window where they could view it.​

Yes, I have the same thoughts and agree with both of those thoughts. I do think it may have been LE approved just for the lack of things that are shown.

I thought if they photographed the kitchen they were getting pictures from an upper floor but his room could be the opposite side and they never accessed that window, so that works too.

I do believe his room was upstairs. I cannot prove it and have little basis to be sure, but in a home like that the master often is for one thing and sometimes even two bedrooms or a master and den. He/they would be close to the kitchen and so forth. The living area downstairs in the den too looks pretty clean where the living area upstairs has the polish remover, monopoly and other things laying around. It appears if I had to guess they lived mostly on the upper floor.

But just guessing.

 

[MCDRAW]

I wonder how far along those defense lawyers have gotten? Thirty (30) boxes of evidence. Plus all the evidence collected at the second crime scene. Or, would the horror-house be third? And the red Taurus be the second?

I hope they can convince this criminal that a trial would be really bad for him, his family, and his victim. Would they even try to appeal to any sense of decency remaining in him?

imho they really have nowhere else to go:

* JTPs confession
* The murder weapon
* The remaining ammo, right where he told LE it would be
* The boots. And any corroborating prints at The Closs home. The first crime scene.
* JTPs detailed description about that crime scene, see confession

Two (2) Life-in-prison terms, No possibility of parole. ETA: That would be my offer to them.

*Note to self. I may get extreme for some of you. IMO Death By Firing Squad should be offered to this one heinous human being. Would something like that convince him to plead guilty? Like on Feb 6th?

Would the State Assembly be willing to enact this one time for a death penalty? Would their constituents be wanting to make this happen?

I am not usually very convinced about the death penalty. I have seen people released from life sentences (thankfully) using the same technology they're using for our past victims. Just like the Jenny Bastian case. 32 years and justice makes a calling.

Would that have even made a difference in this criminal's plans? We need to realize that there should be exceptions, to every law. I hope this is okay to put down in words. Please feel free to delete if too off topic. Thank You, Jim

You hear people saying that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. I had a Criminal Justice professor that swore it was a deterrent, at least for that one criminal because he would never re-offend again. I'm not sure anything is a deterrent to these people that kill without a second thought. They don't seem to care about much. They do always seem to fight really hard for their lives. Timothy McVeigh is the only person I can recall that skipped appeals and seem to want the death penalty. There really are people that never need to be in Society again. EVER.

 

[Julia966]

You hear people saying that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. I had a Criminal Justice professor that swore it was a deterrent, at least for that one criminal because he would never re-offend again. I'm not sure anything is a deterrent to these people that kill without a second thought. They don't seem to care about much. They do always seem to fight really hard for their lives. Timothy McVeigh is the only person I can recall that skipped appeals and seem to want the death penalty. There really are people that never need to be in Society again. EVER.

Gary Gilmore also skipped appeals and wanted (and got) the death penalty.

 

[MCDRAW]

Gary Gilmore also skipped appeals and wanted (and got) the death penalty.

I knew I couldn't recall everyone. They are few and far between.

 

[Julia966]

I knew I couldn't recall everyone. They are few and far between.

Yup, very few. Their own lives are dear. The lives of others, not so much.

 

[ilovechili]

You hear people saying that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. I had a Criminal Justice professor that swore it was a deterrent, at least for that one criminal because he would never re-offend again. I'm not sure anything is a deterrent to these people that kill without a second thought. They don't seem to care about much. They do always seem to fight really hard for their lives. Timothy McVeigh is the only person I can recall that skipped appeals and seem to want the death penalty. There really are people that never need to be in Society again. EVER.

I believe in the death penalty and yet the way it has become in our country, they often never end up executed, California is a great example, as decades of appeals and such things halt it. The only way (if true) it is any worse than being in the general population is they are severely isolated and have less freedom, etc., is that still the case? I would hope so. It seems like even with the death penalty, in most cases it equates to life in prison because of our system. Yet it sure costs big bucks to house them all....

I agree with your professor, it is a deterrent. It takes one out of this world for good who would very likely do it again if they had the chance. I also think it may deter a few. I think of it this way, it is like a DUI, there used to be countries, it was the death penalty if you did such a thing, and they had very little of it.... When it is jail, prison or a fine, etc., people are more likely to take the chance...

I think it has to be a deterrent with some but with a serious psychopath, it is hard to say.

If such penalty existed in Wisconsin, this could well be a case for it and deserved. Depending on the facts that come out I guess. I do think life in prison should be LIFE in prison, when did that change....??

 

[Lillymac]

Yeah, it's not that uncommon for men to start losing their hair at that age, especially if it's genetic. Alopecia is a possibility,too. In addition, in the complaint he DID say that he shaved his head as a forensic precaution. He may have just kept it up even after he'd abducted her. It does appear that he has some genuine loss on either side of his forehead, but hair growth can be funny. Look at CW's hair when he was in court-the coloring was so weird that I couldn't take my eyes off it.

It appears in pictures that his father has the same balding hair pattern.jmo

 

[Lillymac]

IMO, the " cleaning blinds" she interpreted could have been him looking out the blinds surreptitiously and compulsively. Likely, she'd not seen that sort of thing before.. He could have acted like he cleaned the blinds when she could see him because he was on the lookout in his cabin hideout.

If someone had a hostage and that person was a nationally reported Amber Alert with all we know about the publicity, I'd imagine he'd keep a close eye on the sky for drones and helicopters and the roads for any LE presence.

He had a survival manual in the living room which I think most of us believe he had for a long time. Maybe part of survival instructions in a hostage situation say something such as " If you are a hostage, try to stay alert to your surroundings". So, he stayed alert to his surroundings to try to avoid capture and to be alert to dad's unexpected dropping by, key in hand.

I don't know if I've seen all the pictures published of the house or not, but none of the pictures I've seen have blinds or curtains on them. I was amazed at how open it appeared.

 

[Falcon500]

I wonder how far along those defense lawyers have gotten? Thirty (30) boxes of evidence. Plus all the evidence collected at the second crime scene. Or, would the horror-house be third? And the red Taurus be the second?

I hope they can convince this criminal that a trial would be really bad for him, his family, and his victim. Would they even try to appeal to any sense of decency remaining in him?

imho they really have nowhere else to go:

* JTPs confession
* The murder weapon
* The remaining ammo, right where he told LE it would be
* The boots. And any corroborating prints at The Closs home. The first crime scene.
* JTPs detailed description about that crime scene, see confession

Two (2) Life-in-prison terms, No possibility of parole. ETA: That would be my offer to them.

*Note to self. I may get extreme for some of you. IMO Death By Firing Squad should be offered to this one heinous human being. Would something like that convince him to plead guilty? Like on Feb 6th?

Would the State Assembly be willing to enact this one time for a death penalty? Would their constituents be wanting to make this happen?

I am not usually very convinced about the death penalty. I have seen people released from life sentences (thankfully) using the same technology they're using for our past victims. Just like the Jenny Bastian case. 32 years and justice makes a calling.

Would that have even made a difference in this criminal's plans? We need to realize that there should be exceptions, to every law. I hope this is okay to put down in words. Please feel free to delete if too off topic. Thank You, Jim

Enacting the death penalty after the crime would be an Ex Post Facto law and prohibited by the Constitution.

 

[ilovechili]

Enacting the death penalty after the crime would be an Ex Post Facto law and prohibited by the Constitution.

It is a moot point imo. People are outraged no doubt but if they did not enact one for people like Dahmer, even if not prohibited, it will not happen in this case. If it was legal even to do so even, it would not happen.

But it makes sense that one cannot change a law to create a penalty for someone now charged as you state.

I do think such people should NEVER be released.