Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #43

[kkdj]

My experience as a realtor is we have to disclose up front. I've had buyers that would never in a million years want to buy a home someone had died in (afraid of ghosts or something) while I've had buyers that couldn't care less. But we have to disclose it to our clients.
Now, it's an interesting legal question, if the Gordon home, where Jayme was imprisoned, doesn't have charges filed against JP. This is a high profile case and imo people will be driving by and trying to peer inside. (for a time) So, I would disclose it right now, because it might impact ones privacy and sense of safety. I like to protect my clients as they are who I work for. jmo

 

[kkdj]

That surprises me, even from a natural death? Interesting to know.

Oh yes! Some people get freaked out by someone dying in a home. Spooks them out!

 

[ilovechili]

Oh yes! Some people get freaked out by someone dying in a home. Spooks them out!

I guess I am just surprised one would have to disclose if anyone ever died there if it was like an elderly parent with a heart attack or someone with cancer, etc. who was taken care of at home. I have never heard that before. Interesting.

 

[kkdj]

I guess I am just surprised one would have to disclose if anyone ever died there if it was like an elderly parent with a heart attack or someone with cancer, etc. who was taken care of at home. I have never heard that before. Interesting.

Yeah. I think in my state it's 3 years to disclose a death inside the home and if it's murder it might be longer. I haven't dealt with a murder having taken place in the home with a client.....yet.

 

[photographer4]

This is a very important point!
It totally surprises me that I never thought of him possibly letting Denise live once we knew that JC had been the target.
He absolutely could have spared her life by disabling her ability to stop him or run after him carrying or dragging her beloved daughter by wounding her with a non-fatal injury to her leg as he had a knife right there, but chose not to.

It's not at all like the threat from a larger man than JP like James who likely had a weapon and probably could have disabled him if not for JP's gun. This is not a statement for or against gun control, but what I believe James would have done for his family if he'd had any chance at all.

I don't think it's inaccurate to conclude that JP was especially sadistic and cruel to the female victims with absolutely no provocation from them for such. It was what JP says he had planned, so it's what he did.

He chose not to let her live because he knew Jayme wasn’t going to stay with him if she had a mama bear fighting for her to come home. He didn’t count on the will of the kid to get to extended fam. He also did it to terrorize Jayme into submission.

 

[kkdj]

If he isn't charged with a crime in Douglas County then there isn't anything to disclose.

I hear ya. Personally, with this elephant in the room, I don't think I would take the listing. Just too weird and uncomfortable, potential legal issues......ummmm....no.

 

[kkdj]

He chose not to let her live because he knew Jayme wasn’t going to stay with him if she had a mama bear fighting for her to come home. He didn’t count on the will of the kid to get to extended fam. He also did it to terrorize Jayme into submission.

BBM
Yes!

 

[kkdj]

So, if his confession was taken from stories/ideas he read about rather than the truth, what happens?

 

[MassGuy]

So, if his confession was taken from stories/ideas he read about rather than the truth, what happens?

Then the defense can claim just that, that his confession was a fabrication, and should be ignored by the jury.

There’s a major problem with that though:

It fits.

His account of what happened that night, jibes with Jayme’s account. It also matches the physical evidence at the crime scene.

Good luck to the defense with that.

This case doesn’t hinge on his confession though.

The prosecution has more evidence than they will ever need.

Thanks to Jayme.

Few cases are a “slam dunk.” This case is a bunch of them, all in a row.

He’s done.

 

[kkdj]

Then the defense can claim just that, that his confession was a fabrication, and should be ignored by the jury.

There’s a major problem with that though:

It fits.

His account of what happened that night, jibes with Jayme’s account. It also matches the physical evidence at the crime scene.

Good luck to the defense with that.

This case doesn’t hinge on his confession though.

The prosecution has more evidence than they will ever need.

Thanks to Jayme.

Few cases are a “slam dunk.” This case is a bunch of them, all in a row.

He’s done.

My point is, it fits because of what he read about the case and how online posts figured how it might fit. He might have borrowed some of the theories. I have a feeling he did. I think some of his confession is true, but not all of it.

 

[MassGuy]

My point is, it fits because of what he read about the case and how online posts figured how it might fit. He might have borrowed some of the theories. I have a feeling he did. I think some of his confession is true, but not all of it.

The most important part of that confession, is what happened in that house.

His account was too specific to have been drawn from media reports, especially the part about James thinking he was a police officer.

There isn’t a single thing he said, that doesn’t ring true.

I also believe that the other parts are true as well, especially the part about how he came to learn about Jayme.

It’s absolutely terrifying, but there has been nothing presented that refutes it in any way.

I thought that it was possible that this killer had spotted Jayme and her mother out shopping, and had followed them home.

It turned out that he just saw her getting on a school bus.

I buy the whole thing, even though I’m not inclined to believe any murder suspect.

 

[wary]

Deleted. Question answered.

 

[Jim_M]

My point is, it fits because of what he read about the case and how online posts figured how it might fit. He might have borrowed some of the theories. I have a feeling he did. I think some of his confession is true, but not all of it.

It almost fits too perfectly. And yet, I wonder. Did we ever confirm how Jayme knew JTPs full name? Did he drill it into her? Did she see papers laying around the house? I honestly do not recall seeing that little bit of information confirmed. Why would it matter? Did he actually plan for her to escape? And she would be able to identify him quickly? Or am I giving our suspect too much credit?

 

[MsBetsy]

He chose not to let her live because he knew Jayme wasn’t going to stay with him if she had a mama bear fighting for her to come home. He didn’t count on the will of the kid to get to extended fam. He also did it to terrorize Jayme into submission.

He also killed her because he did not want to leave any witnesses. Denise would have been able to tell LE that Jayme was alive, given a description of his voice, the mask he was wearing, his approximate height, build, and shape and color of his eyes, as well a description of the weapon. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

So, if his confession was taken from stories/ideas he read about rather than the truth, what happens?

I don't think it would be a problem. Too many details match Jayme's account of what happened. I think he knew he was caught, and it would have been pointless to lie about the details. He may have actually enjoyed sharing them. Imo

 

[Jim_M]

He also killed her because he did not want to leave any witnesses. Denise would have been able to tell LE that Jayme was alive, given a description of his voice, the mask he was wearing, his approximate height, build, and shape and color of his eyes, as well a description of the weapon. Imo

The very definition of killing in cold blood. Leaving no witness to his horror show. What a monster IMO.

 

[Julia966]

I don't understand why he felt he had to kill Denise. She clearly was defenseless and he was masked from head to toe so she could have never described him except for height and weight. He could have tied her up, as he did Jayme and she could have just been there alive until someone found her.

Tying up a screaming, terrified woman trying to protect her daughter would have not been easy. And what would he have done with Jayme in the meantime? He knew Denise was on the phone, and he had very little time left to get Jayme out of the house. There was no way Denise was going to survive that.

 

[mama sleuth]

Yeah. I think in my state it's 3 years to disclose a death inside the home and if it's murder it might be longer. I haven't dealt with a murder having taken place in the home with a client.....yet.

Good morning all. I am a licensed Realtor in MN and WI laws are very similar.

Seller(s) MUST disclose murder(s) but not suicide or natural death.

It was explained to me this way: When a murder takes place at a home, there may/may not still be someone "out there" that could adversely and significantly affect an ordinary buyer's use and enjoyment of the property i.e come back to that particular address to cause harm.

Suicide and natural death do not need to be disclosed because the "threat" is over. Some cultures (Buyers) will ask if anyone has died IN the home but Sellers don't have to disclose if they don't want to.

IMO - I can't offer legal advice - I am not an attorney but this is my understanding.

 

[mtnlites]

Tying up a screaming, terrified woman trying to protect her daughter would have not been easy. And what would he have done with Jayme in the meantime? He knew Denise was on the phone, and he had very little time left to get Jayme out of the house. There was no way Denise was going to survive that.

I agree. Someone would have to kill me to keep me from going after my kid. He knew LE was on their way. He probably figured that he didn't have time to deal with what Denise might do when he left the room with Jayme. She wouldn't have needed to kill him to cause problems, just create enough trouble to slow him down. I'm sure he thought about that.

I also agree with others, too, though. I think killing both parents was always part of his original plan and may have been as exciting as the kidnapping. Neither were ever going to get out of it alive.

 

[mtnlites]

The most important part of that confession, is what happened in that house.

His account was too specific to have been drawn from media reports, especially the part about James thinking he was a police officer.

There isn’t a single thing he said, that doesn’t ring true.

I also believe that the other parts are true as well, especially the part about how he came to learn about Jayme.

It’s absolutely terrifying, but there has been nothing presented that refutes it in any way.

I thought that it was possible that this killer had spotted Jayme and her mother out shopping, and had followed them home.

It turned out that he just saw her getting on a school bus.

I buy the whole thing, even though I’m not inclined to believe any murder suspect.

Me too. I would normally take what the suspect said with a grain of salt, but I don't see anything in the complaint/confession that doesn't line up or seem probable. Seeing Jayme at the bus stop and deciding to take her then? Totally possible. There are countless examples of similar things happening in other crimes-including crimes in which the perps specifically spotted the victim at a bus stop. It's not that I am just taking his word for it-there's literally nothing in that report that stands out to me as possibly being fabricated.