AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #13

[Mom24]

I’m more inclined to believe the family did not know their killer solely from the 911 call and the lack of POI the police have.
If Denise was the one to call 911 after seeing her husband shot and maybe being shot herself, knowing her daughter was still in the house in danger, my last dying breathe would be to shout out the name. “Don’t do it ______”
Since we know there was shouting and yelling wouldn’t you try to slip in their name? I sure as hell would.

That's assuming Denise was able to speak. She may have pressed 911 while blacking out, or having been shot in an area that affected her ability to speak coherently.

 

[Mom24]

I'd say the trail's gone cold, but I don't know if LE has ever established a trail to follow.

Baffling.

It's been my experience here that the less information we get, the more they have. Also, we may be in the quiet before the storm.

 

[OldCop]

I wish we knew for certain the Closs family movements from the time Jayme and Denise left the family gathering, and what James was doing that evening, (working, home, out elsewhere) until the time the gunshots were heard at approximately 12:30.

Points to ponder:

-We do know the neighbors were out earlier that evening. What if the gunshots they heard at 12:30 were not the first gunshots?

-What if Jayme and Denise walked in on a burglary? If they came in through the garage, the front door might still have been locked when James got home. Was it he who actually kicked in the door?

-What door did the family typically use to enter the house when they parked in the driveway?

-If there were two perps, maybe one was stationed as a lookout.

-If he/they had the two females inside perhaps he/they tied one to a chair while sexually assaulting the other not knowing a man, James, would be coming home. If this is a possible scenario, perhaps Denise broke loose from the chair when Jayme was being assualted and this was how the ties/restraints were broken on the chair or cushion. This may have been when she was shot.

-Perhaps James was home first and was shot when the perp(s) tried to enter the home. If Denise and Jayme came in through the basement, they may not even have noticed the front door kicked in upstairs especially if it was dark.


I am not sure the original point of this whole horrific incident was to kidnap Jayme. As other posters have noted, why not take her at a time when she was alone rather than risk the confrontation with her parents?

Why was Dad’s truck parked so far away from the house?

Unfortunately, I still think the decision to take Jayme may have been made when the 911 call was made. The perp might have thought she was some type of insurance or bargaining point with authorities. Perhaps even he is surprised that he has not been caught yet. But what to do with Jayme?

 

[jayaxx]

Anyone know if the police have investigated whether there are any secret social media accounts that may trace back to Jayme? Not the couple we know of, but seeing if there are any others? I know that 13 year olds here, for example, have "Finstagram" accounts, ie, fake instagram accounts for friends only with no parents, and they dont use their real names. If would be hard to find but the social media platforms could isolate an IP and figure it out.

 

[Mandie K]

Hi All. Can you be so kind and recommend an online talk radio that has any coverage of the Closs Case? All I hear is politics.

 

[minnphatts]

I don't think there were any zip ties after all. There was a wooden chair carried out by evidence technicians (I guess) and it had some strings or something on the back wooden (what are those vertical rails called?) But the consensus pretty much was that those were cushion ties, separated from their cushion. I agree. I have a cushion like that and the ties came loose and ripped away and they look just like the strings on that chair.

In the very early threads there was a suggestion by someone (sorry I forgot who) that the front left of the chair had LE ID tags, not damage or splintered wood. I conceded that it's possible that the protrusions could be something like a zip ties as opposed splinters, but IMO those protrusions are splintered wood.

There has not been consensus that I've seen that those are ropes/strings are cushion ties. I originally thought they were cushion ties, but now concede it's also possible they are the remnants of restraints, or other unknown ties. I analyzed them in greater detail back in thread 12, #923:


I'm probably the primary offender when it comes to the over analysis of the seat cushions. We don't have much to go on, so I've focused on something tangible. Like I said earlier I'm an avid fly fisherman and tie many different knots and flies, and something seemed off to me when further analyzing the chair. I'll apologize in advance, because here's some further testing (see attached file). You'll notice in the WCCO/CNN video thatthere's (1) tag end of rope remaining in the rear left and (2) dangling from the rear right.

I originally used Occam's razor (big surprise) to discount these ties as simply the remnants of standard cushions. Upon further review, at a minimum they likely didn't come from a standard cushions where two ties per corner are individually sewn in (like the blue cushion my experiment image). With a standard cushion, if you simply cut the ties, you'd be left with (4) tag ends.

You'll also notice in my second screenshot from the video that you can see the top of the rope (arrow pointed to the white area on top of seat) which appears to not be oriented to the outside (left) spindle, but possibly connected one spindle inside to the right (see blue circle). Aren't cushions usually tied to both outside corner spindles?

It's possible that this is a misinterpretation of the video evidence, or that a single tie cushion has been removed/cut in a unique way by LE, or that the Closs family had something else tied to this chair in an atypical manor. But IMO this evidence can't be explained away as easily as I originally thought.
MOO

911 call traced to phone of missing Wisconsin girl's mother, authorities say - CNN

 

[photographer4]

I’m more inclined to believe the family did not know their killer solely from the 911 call and the lack of POI the police have.
If Denise was the one to call 911 after seeing her husband shot and maybe being shot herself, knowing her daughter was still in the house in danger, my last dying breathe would be to shout out the name. “Don’t do it ______”
Since we know there was shouting and yelling wouldn’t you try to slip in their name? I sure as hell would.

In DC's case though, she may not have been able to use her last dying breath to speak. We don't know what her injuries were or the extent of them. It's possible she was choking on blood and unable to get words out - so if she made the 911 call, she maybe did all she could do in that instant to help her daughter.

 

[bizzle2]

I would bet that if LE publicly asks for information on two specific vehicles seen in the area that night that they are fairly confident that those vehicles are involved in some way.

Likewise, they didn't ask the owners to come forward. Rather, they asked the public to share information about seeing them in the area. Why is that?

JMO.

I'm pretty sure they just saw those vehicles on surveillance video in the area around the time of the crime. One, or both, or none of those cars could be involved. I don't think they really know at this point. I'd bet they've already checked with all the owners of vehicles matching those descriptions in the county.

 

[bechk45]

I know this is way out in left field, but that never stops me from embarrassing myself by sharing my thoughts. What if the guy wasn't planning any of what happened to begin with. Is it possible that someone on some heavy drugs (or alcohol) was going through the vehicles looking for something to steal and found a hunting rifle or shotgun in the truck. Mollie starts barking and growling because she hears him out there, and Dad goes to check it out. The guy is close to the house at the time, and even after turning on the exterior light, Dad doesn't see him. Thinking there's a bear, raccoon or something out there, Dad opens the door and shoots in the air to scare it off. That startles the thief who was fairly close to the door and wasn't thinking clearly, so he opens the screen door and shoots through the inside door to retaliate. He hears Dad fall to the floor and forces the door open. When he does that, he hears DC scream and sees her run into the other room. He goes after her and shoots her too. He wanders around looking for things in the house to steal, but JC comes out of her bedroom to see what woke her up. He's trying to shut her up because she's too small for him to consider her a threat. DC calls 911 but dies before she can say anything. He grabs JC and she yells for help as he's dragging her toward the front door (or her bedroom, whatever) and passes DC's body on the way. He notices the phone and hears the 911 operator asking if anyone is there. He kicks the phone and drags or carries JC with him to get out of there before they send LE to the house. He would also have been likely to grab whatever Dad had shot out the door too since it would be something he'd be able to sell.

It may be less than believable, but you have to admit it's original. MOO

I've thought something like this happened since the beginning. Reading the jail roster from this week, researching crimes in the area confirms that suspicion. Most are meth related and several have history of stealing weapons. Sounds like it's not uncommon in the area.
I'm thinking a person/pair were trying to sneak in to steal weapons and whatever wasn't nailed down when it all went wrong. In their panic they took the child. Even a meth head in psychosis isn't going to kill a kid or a dog. Doesn't mean they'll keep them alive though after they figure out this is all such a big mess. I have nothing other than a hunch to go on though.

 

[Joebob77]

Based on what we know, can we make a profile of the perp? Local, visitor, male, age, size? Employment status, loner, social? Criminal record, types of crimes?
I think there are some guesses we can make.

 

[cj1132]

Do we know if there were any lights on in the house when the police arrived?

 

[HayLouise]

The search for 13-year-old Jayme Closs enters its 12th day Friday.

Investigators press for break in missing Wisconsin girl case

news10nbc on Twitter

 

[PayrollNerd]

If they can do a high level voice analysis on the 911 recording, then I suspect LE's confidence Jayme was there was likely confirmed by voice analysis or comparison. Kids her age do a lot of videos and her family may have some video on their phones too for comparison.

 

[Megnut]

If the wood is truly splintered, perhaps a bullet got lodged there. That would explain why they'd take the whole chair as evidence. MOO

 

[thesnowflakesparkles]

In the very early threads there was a suggestion by someone (sorry I forgot who) that the front left of the chair had LE ID tags, not damage or splintered wood. I conceded that it's possible that the protrusions could be something like a zip ties as opposed splinters, but IMO those protrusions are splintered wood.

There has not been consensus that I've seen that those are ropes/strings are cushion ties. I originally thought they were cushion ties, but now concede it's also possible they are the remnants of restraints, or other unknown ties. I analyzed them in greater detail back in thread 12, #923:


I'm probably the primary offender when it comes to the over analysis of the seat cushions. We don't have much to go on, so I've focused on something tangible. Like I said earlier I'm an avid fly fisherman and tie many different knots and flies, and something seemed off to me when further analyzing the chair. I'll apologize in advance, because here's some further testing (see attached file). You'll notice in the WCCO/CNN video thatthere's (1) tag end of rope remaining in the rear left and (2) dangling from the rear right.

I originally used Occam's razor (big surprise) to discount these ties as simply the remnants of standard cushions. Upon further review, at a minimum they likely didn't come from a standard cushions where two ties per corner are individually sewn in (like the blue cushion my experiment image). With a standard cushion, if you simply cut the ties, you'd be left with (4) tag ends.

You'll also notice in my second screenshot from the video that you can see the top of the rope (arrow pointed to the white area on top of seat) which appears to not be oriented to the outside (left) spindle, but possibly connected one spindle inside to the right (see blue circle). Aren't cushions usually tied to both outside corner spindles?

It's possible that this is a misinterpretation of the video evidence, or that a single tie cushion has been removed/cut in a unique way by LE, or that the Closs family had something else tied to this chair in an atypical manor. But IMO this evidence can't be explained away as easily as I originally thought.
MOO

911 call traced to phone of missing Wisconsin girl's mother, authorities say - CNN

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Good analysis! What if these are simply a decorative item that nothing was cut off of in the first place like tassels (image attached)?

Edit: I just don't think law enforcement would let restraints be seen going out of the house considering how careful they are with releasing information. They would have covered that part of the chair with something. They also don't seem very durable for use in tying someone down.

 

[1987]

the chair, I don't think a chair like that would be strong enough to hold someone tied down. I think even a child wrestling restraints tied to it would break the wood rod in the back of the chair. I think odd things are just present and unrelated sometimes.

 

[bizzle2]

Agreed! The two 911 calls were 25 minutes apart (12:31 and 12:56) and we don't know how long peep(s) were in the home before the first gunshot was heard. And page one of this thread said that Authorities found a violent crime scene.

There was no 911 call at 12:31

 

[Angleterre]

Seeing the questions and comments concerning why LE did this or didn't do that I thought some may be interested in reading the OJJDP guide book that LE follows in these cases. I found it very informative. It is long but there is a table of contents or you can use your devices "find" option for specific words.
"Missing and Abducted Children: A Law-Enforcement Guide to Case Investigation and Program Management"
http://www.missingkids.com/content/dam/ncmec/en_us/desktop/publications/nc74.pdf

Great find thank you

 

[Zella]

Even a meth head in psychosis isn't going to kill a kid or a dog.

SBM

This is not my experience at all. I live in an area that has had rampant meth addiction for over 20 years and have dealt with it in my family, and I firmly believe a meth user would be violent enough to hurt a child and dog. Not saying every meth user, but I don't think it would be surprising at all.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I considered that scenario as well. Makes some sense. Maybe even waited for Dad to get home if he wasn’t. My questions though are where wait? And where park vehicle?

In the wooded areas around the home I would think. I m sure there may be areas around there they could park their vehicle and go on foot to the house.

That way no tire tracks would be found of the suspect's on their property. Close enough he could force Jayme back to his own vehicle.

Jmo

 

[photographer4]

So we've been going back and forth for days now on what happened to Jayme... and why the police aren't saying Kidnapped or Abducted in the media... however, I'd like to go back to the dispatch call log and point out that they did actually say Jayme was abducted in that log... I just reviewed it... here it is for those who don't recall it... It says "potentially abducted" then it says "abducted". Pls ignore the arrow that my cursor somehow created over the area where it says the unknown status... I don't know how it arrived there or how to delete that marking.... but I did note it says "suspect". Singular. Not plural. It sounds like the police were thinking this was a solo job when they created that particular document to send out....
Jayme Closs: 911 dispatch log released from night of Wisconsin teen's disappearance