AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #15

[MassGuy]

No, it was ruled that the man fought with his wife, killed his wife and daughter, then killed himself.
But could that be wrong? With the family so similar, and the daughter in dance could it be the same guy, focused on the teenager, that managed to make that one look like murder/suicide and intended to do so again this time, but it didn't work out?

No one pulls off a perfect crime like that.

A perfect murder committed under the guise of murder suicide? One within a family that has a husband with a pattern of domestic abuse?

Then a brutal double murder and kidnapping following that, one executed in a very brazen manner?

That’s a bad movie, not real life.

 

[MsFacetious]

I just looked. Wisconsin requires 2.

I've lived in a state my entire life that requires 2 plates.
We have never owned a vehicle with 2 plates.
We have never been ticketed for not having 2 plates.
Even when being ticketed for other things (which is not a rare event.)

I think it means absolutely nothing that Wisconsin and surrounding states "require" 2 plates.
Especially considering the double homicide, kidnapping and burglary these people had already committed.
I don't think they were too worried about a license plate violation.

Maybe they have made the connection, but are not yet able to make the arrest.

I just can't reconcile this with Jayme being alive.
I would think if they had a connection they'd make an arrest to recover her.

looks to me like the neighbor placed themselves out into the public opinions, or at least haven't been trying to avoid it. also as far as neighbors go, mine might call me a recluse too, I do lots of stuff outdoors, just not here, I don't like my neighbors at all so I avoid them.

Yes. Exactly this.

In the evening you are a normal average loving family and by morning you are statistics. So sad.

Brutal reality. So many dreams shattered overnight.

This is where I'm at currently. For all of the above reasons, plus LE has never mentioned that a neighbor heard 2 shots at 12:31, nor that anyone heard anything that night prior to or during the crime. For all we know, maybe another neighbor chased off a fox getting into their chickens at 12:31. If other neighbors heard something or other neighbors were behind the 12:31 shots, LE knows that because LE would have gone around and interviewed everyone in the area. It seems like the other neighbors have simply decided not to speak to the press. If even one other neighbor heard the shots at the same time I might change my mind.

I have wondered this too. Whether LE feels this timeline is accurate? If they have been able to support it with other witnesses?

That's a good point. It is difficult being an older parent. When most of the parents are 10-15 years (and James' case maybe even 20) it makes it hard to find common ground and be overly friendly.

This also applies when you are a young parent, or a single parent, or not the dominant religion.... there are lenty of reasons why people may not socialize with immediate neighbors. It doesn't make them scrooge!

Are you referring to the Closs family? That description doesn't seem to match them but I don't see who else you could be referring to.

We've heard that DC and young J were active at church, J went to lots of outside school activities and DC often attended events with her, DC was apparently active in charity things and raising money for causes like fighting cancer.

I absolutely cannot imagine what people would consider ME if they consider these people reclusive! I mean WOW. Jayme had more activities than my entire family does put together.

 

[Shurlokt]

What about neighboring states?

Minnesota requires front and rear plates.

 

[Wrenny]

On the question of whether the neighbors should have heard shouting/screaming. The only time I have heard my neighbors across the street yelling at each other, was when they were doing it outside, in an extremely heated argument. I am much nearer than 300 yards, without a forest between us. From the apparent emotions I heard in their voices, I expect there were times they hollared at each other inside. I have never heard it.

 

[MassGuy]

On the question of whether the neighbors should have heard shouting/screaming. The only time I have heard my neighbors across the street yelling at each other, was when they were doing it outside, in an extremely heated argument. I am much nearer than 300 yards, without a forest between us. From the apparent emotions I heard in their voices, I expect there were times they hollared at each other inside. I have never heard it.

Yeah. I wouldn’t have expected the neighbors to hear yelling here, for that reason, the distance, and the brush/trees.

I also suspect that they didn’t hear all the gunshots.

 

[Lillymac]

Edited because I am trying to reply to msfacetious post, but I think I messed it up.

I just can't reconcile this with Jayme being alive.
I would think if they had a connection they'd make an arrest to recover her.

I was thinking along the lines of maybe they can't locate them or don't have enough evidence yet..

 

[Whiskers16]

Thread is closed for the night. Will reopen in the morning.

 

[Harmony 2]

Good morning fellow sleuthers! I hope everyone is enjoying a leisurely Sunday morning. The Closs thread is now open for discussion.

link

 

[buttonbaby]

SeekingJana.
You story is so sad.
So pleased that with time, "our minds fill in the painful spaces with sweet little things".
I am glad, you have these wonderful memories.
I hope LaborDay reads your post, and will also, eventually have just sweet memories.
I hope the Closs family will eventually have these thoughts also.

Jana, sending much love and many hugs.

tmar.... what a beautiful thought. Thank you.

 

[Mrs. Friday]

I apologize if this has been discussed and I missed it, but the dispatch log mentions a car that was driving back and forth pass the Closs home and was asked to leave. Do we know anything about the car’s occupants and any connection they may have to the family? This sounds highly suspicious to me as it was the middle of the night. Perhaps they had some prior knowledge that something was going to happen that night. JMOO

 

[ludakristen]

I was watching Forensic Files last night, and the episode covered a quadruple murder in Clear Lake City, Texas. Four teens were murdered by gunshots inside the home, during the daytime, in a nice suburb with homes much closer together than on Hwy 8 where the Closs family lived. No neighbors heard the gunshots. There were I think 21 shots fired between two weapons, a 9 mm and a 38 mm.

This cements in my mind that it's totally possible that the neighbors only heard two, and they were likely outside.

 

[kay74]

Ok they talked to relatives and workers and noone knows anything. The only thing left is Jayme communicating with someone online, a predator who presented himself as a teen. Who else could it have been?? A small community, one work place for both of them and nothing is found. Someone from out of state. I hope he/they have the heart to let her go. They have to face God so they better do the right thing.

 

[Amonet]

On thread 14, someone posted about the 2017 double murder/suicide in Barron county; a couple and their 17 year old daughter. I searched for the info and pulled up maybe a different article, but I found this info about the daughter chilling:

The abrupt loss shocked many in the community who knew Natalie as a positive, caring girl, active on the dance team and friends with everyone at school.
​

Dance team. The town is about 14 miles from Barron, and under 9 miles from Cameron where Jayme had previously gone to school, and where they went to church.

Does anyone think this is worth looking at further? Here's the link to the article. Autopsy results from Chetek, Wisconsin murder-suicide

Good find. I didn't realize there was a daughter murdered too.

From reading what's said in that article it sounds consistent with murder-suicide. The mom suffered physical traumas in addition to the gunshot that seem consistent with domestic abuse.

The daughter in that case also managed to make a 911 call and I would say there's a good chance she managed to say what was happening.

 

[JnRyan]

After following this since thread #12, I’ve been trying to make sense of this one. There is NOTHING in the media about either parent being involved with drugs. Like the Freeman-Bible case in OK or the Careaga case in Kitsap County, WA. So revenge? They don’t appear to be wealthy so money doesn’t appear to be likely.

So…what if one or both the parents were NOT the targets with Jayme as a collateral crime? But rather the killer was after Jayme and the parents were collateral damage. Even this seems lame. If they wanted Jayme, they could have taken her at a bus stop or watched for some time when she was home alone. Murder draws too much attention and may take more effort and the more complicated you make a project the more likely something will go wrong. Murder means LE is going to be searching for her almost immediately. A simple missing teenager and there is the possibility that LE would treat it as a run-away and thus buy time for the abductor.

Why take Jayme? A person obsessed with her? No mention of boyfriends. This might be someone secretly obsessed with her. Because if she knew of such a stalker, she might have told a friend if not her mother or father. I don’t see trafficking as such criminals like to fly under the radar with such girls as run-away’s, for one example. The murder and abduction would make this too high profile for a trafficker. Traffickers like to operate in the shadows and the murder puts too much light on the case.

If this is someone obsessed with her I do believe there is a chance she was alive for some time afterwards and may still be alive. If they wanted her dead, she would have been killed at the scene with the parents.

Then again, all this assumes logic and criminals don’t always follow logic in their actions.

 

[JnRyan]

Ok they talked to relatives and workers and noone knows anything. The only thing left is Jayme communicating with someone online, a predator who presented himself as a teen. Who else could it have been?? A small community, one work place for both of them and nothing is found. Someone from out of state. I hope he/they have the heart to let her go. They have to face God so they better do the right thing.

This follows along the lines of what I was thinking, except I forgot about online stalking. If there is a computer in the home I hope LE is going through it. I haven't heard if she had a phone or if the LE had it.

 

[ludakristen]

I think if someone was holding Jayme captive somewhere for this length of time, she'd be found by now. I know it's not impossible -- there are examples (Jaycee Dugard, Elizabeth Smart) but it's pretty highly unlikely.

I think it's much more likely she was murdered that night, or very soon after her parents, and her body hidden somewhere. The person or persons who did this went back to their normal lives, nothing suspicious happening.

 

[jkloc420]

So the reason i say druggie might of hit the wrong house is I expirenced it first hand. I happened to have the same car as a meth dealer who lived a few miles down the road from me. The guy ripped off some people and they came up on in my driveway and set my car on fire. They thought it was is his car.

 

[Le Singe]

I saw this mentioned on previous thread and along with mom being active in the Church/with It's members, it seems odd to me that the neighbours would classify them as "keeping to themselves and not answering the door" type of folks.

Makes me think that the Smezcaks (sp) may, for lack of a better term, be blowing smoke re: the Closs family.

Maybe the Closs' just didn't like them or thought they were nosey or whatever. Just because they had no interest in communicating with them, doesn't make them "hermits".

I think I will take whatever the Smezcak's say with a grain of salt.

I don't think they are necessarily "blowing smoke" i think they are just mistaken in their impressions b/c they don't really know the family as they freely admit.

 

[ludakristen]

I also think if someone took Jayme because they were obsessed with her ("in love with" her), the only logical reason they'd go to such great lengths to murder her parents too is because they were a threat. Otherwise, your run-of-the-mill pedo or sexual assailant is going to wait until his victim is vulnerable and alone. That makes this also pretty highly unlikely, IMO, because how in god's name would Jayme be communicating with someone like this if not with a phone or the internet? LE would know that by now. There'd be plenty of evidence, like the teacher who took his student out to a cabin in the woods.

What motive does that leave? Totally random psychopath murdering for the hell of it. Highly unlikely, right? Drugs. Zero evidence there were drugs in the home or the parents or Jayme had any involvement with meth or drugs. I know there are a few posters here who are really into the idea that "meth heads" go around murdering and torturing people, but that's not the norm for a drug addict at all.

Parents are the actual targets (Denise, it seems like) -- this is what I think is the most likely (IMO, JMO), because of the time spent in the home, the way James seemed to be murdered first and gotten out of the way, the mattress being taken from the home, and -- most importantly -- by deducting other motives one by one.

 

[Joebob77]

I have been thinking about the funeral. It wouldn't be uncommon for the perp to attend the funeral of his victims. It makes me wonder who attended. Was LE or FBI present? I also know funerals bring people out of the woodwork too. My ageing mom regularly attends funerals of people she is barely acquainted with anymore (I think she is worried no one will attend hers...trying to build good karma).